Toggle sidebar

Speculation: Justin Holl Discussion Thread

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
sandin holl looked amazing for over a month ..
muzzin holl has sucked every game together ........

why the f#$@ does the coach keep putting him back with muzzin ? this is a coaching problem.
no one would be complaining about a sandin holl 3rd pairing. This forcing him into the top 4 with muzzin is becoming lunacy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nylander88 and shooter0713
Keefe really wishes the Muzzin-Holl pair could find their game again. There was a time where they were so effective, fingers crossed they rediscover that.

Liljegren is a better fit right now beside Muzzin & Sandin-Holl actually looked really good... time to go back to that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aingefan, Nylander88 and stickty111
Our forward group would be very deep if they took a risk and went with McCann and Kerfoot. They took the conservative approach with their Holl reasoning and it didn't pay off. Sometimes you need to be bold to get ahead and have faith you'll figure something out. Especially when it's a player like Holl. Bunting McCann Kerfoot Engvall down the left is money. Trade Mik in the off-season (as in last off-season), he requested a trade anyways.

They wanted Kampf always, so he'd still be here. Ritchie is never signed. Everyone wins.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shooter2x
Havoc said:
Our forward group would be very deep if they took a risk and went with McCann and Kerfoot. They took the conservative approach with their Holl reasoning and it didn't pay off. Sometimes you need to be bold to get ahead and have faith you'll figure something out. Especially when it's a player like Holl. Bunting McCann Kerfoot Engvall down the left is money. Trade Mik in the off-season (as in last off-season), he requested a trade anyways.

They wanted Kampf always, so he'd still be here. Ritchie is never signed. Everyone wins.
Click to expand...
No I think we're left with all 3 if Leafs protect McCann and Kerfoot. Kraken made some weird pics. We don't know if they care for Holl. Unless someone has a link to prove otherwise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LeafSteel and Havoc
Shooter2x said:
No I think we're left with all 3 if Leafs protect McCann and Kerfoot. Kraken made some weird pics. We don't know if they care for Holl. Unless someone has a link to prove otherwise.
Click to expand...
I remember in the off-season the majority opinion was that Kraken will pick one of the 3 we don't protect, but I don't have any proof of it right now no.

I liked Muzzin-Lil on that goal so maybe Sandin works with Holl moving forward and this Holl situation is no longer a problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nylanderthal and Shooter2x
Stephen said:
The reason we see them go back to the well with Holl is because there's no one else whose 6'4" and a RHD. It's a body type that can handle situations. With Dermott, he's a little bit smoother at certain aspects of the game but he also plays skittish and gets rattled when he's challenged physically. So what can you do, two imperfect defensemen who should be lower on the depth chart.
Click to expand...
Yes but Dermy can skate .. Holl can't .. another f'd up Holl screw up last night because he can't in a tight situation lift puck onto glass for a clear .. his skill level is just not there .. not his fault he is trying his best but bottom line he did not get given da god given skills .. I'd rather have Dermy in because he would have got to that puck quicker and been able to skate it out .. bottom line another bad goal against .. against good teams we can't recover
 
JT AM da real deal said:
Yes but Dermy can skate .. Holl can't .. another f'd up Holl screw up last night because he can't in a tight situation lift puck onto glass for a clear .. his skill level is just not there .. not his fault he is trying his best but bottom line he did not get given da god given skills .. I'd rather have Dermy in because he would have got to that puck quicker and been able to skate it out .. bottom line another bad goal against .. against good teams we can't recover
Click to expand...

I think what’s too bad about both is when one is in the lineup you miss the other. Fairly evident we need a big man who can skate and play. And then one of Holl or Dermott can stay as the depth spare.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JT AM da real deal
The Podium said:
Nice “watch the game” argument, you are letting confirmation bias mould your opinion. If you believe Holl sucks, every mistake is memorable. Truth is, he makes as many defensive mistakes, if not less, than any #4 or 5 guy deployed in his usage.
Click to expand...

Yes I'm letting what i actuality see form my opinion, I'm not looking at graphs or charts.

I have watched this man his entire NHL career he's always been bad but Jake Muzzin would carry him and cover that up.

Now Jake Muzzin isn't doing that he hasn't been healthy.

Now people are starting to see Justin Holl for what he is, a mistake machine and that would be OK if he had to offense to make up for it.

But he doesn't so all he is, is a 2 million dollar walking mistake machine
 
the funny thing is him and muzzin are actually decent as a pk unit together, its crazy how poor they are together 5v5
 
djdev said:
the funny thing is him and muzzin are actually decent as a pk unit together, its crazy how poor they are together 5v5
Click to expand...

Its because neither can skate the puck out of danger or breakout well. On the PK they just have to ice the puck once they gain possession.

Not surprising that he looks much better with Sandin who is very effective at controlled breakouts.


LEAFANFORLIFE23 said:
Yes I'm letting what i actuality see form my opinion, I'm not looking at graphs or charts.

I have watched this man his entire NHL career he's always been bad but Jake Muzzin would carry him and cover that up.

Now Jake Muzzin isn't doing that he hasn't been healthy.

Now people are starting to see Justin Holl for what he is, a mistake machine and that would be OK if he had to offense to make up for it.

But he doesn't so all he is, is a 2 million dollar walking mistake machine
Click to expand...

I’m watching the games and don’t see him as a mistake machine, and the graphs and charts support my eye test. Maybe the problem is your inability to properly evaluate players or you fail to watch teams around the league enough and have unrealistic expectations of a #4 or 5 D.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nylanderthal, GrizzGreen and djdev
SIMMONS: What do the Maple Leafs do about Justin Holl? | Toronto Sun

His plight and his play are particularly confusing and confounding in a season in which big things are expected of a Leafs upper echelon team heading in one direction while the decline of Holl is clearly not keeping pace. He was no news when he first arrived as Leaf, then he was good news: Now he’s bad news on too many NHL nights.

Part of it is his play. It just hasn’t been good enough. Part of it is his partner’s play. The veteran leader Jake Muzzin hasn’t been good enough or healthy enough. A great defenceman can often partner with a lesser and make the other rather invisible and invaluable. The great Chris Pronger did it for years in places like Edmonton or Philadelphia as has Drew Doughty in Los Angeles. But Muzzin hasn’t been that great player ever — or even the good one he has normally been in the past and is expected to be.

This now exposes the 6-foot-4 Holl as a rather large and seemingly slow skating, slow decision making weak link that other teams have clearly identified and attacked. And it makes a natural problem and challenge for coach Sheldon Keefe. Does he continue to pair Holl with Muzzin? Does he continue to utilize the pair as its shutdown duo against the NHL’s best lines? Does he split them up? And if so, who plays with whom? And where, if anywhere, does Holl fit in?

The first Leafs pairing of Morgan Rielly and TJ Brodie is set. Muzzin is a staple, even while struggling. Young Rasmus Sandin has taken a step forward this season as has his usual partner, Timothy Liljegren. Which leaves Holl, where? And the forever treading Travis Dermott, swimming in circles, hoping to one day find himself as an NHL regular.

There are all kinds of moving pieces here, just not necessarily the right pieces.

Playing defence is normally not about statistics unless you happen to be elite. Playing defence is about body positioning and stick positioning. It’s about decision making. It’s about thinking the game in a way forwards never have to think the game. It’s about reading the play and understanding where you are on the ice. It’s about gap control and knowing when to pinch and more importantly when not to pinch. And it’s about time and space, figuring out how much of it you have and how to best utilize it.

A lot of this comes naturally to the best of all defencemen. It’s instinctual. It’s natural. It’s who they are. But when you’re Justin Holl, and you know things aren’t going your way, and your trip to the NHL wasn’t easy or natural, suddenly it’s like dancing with a partner you’ve never met before. You step one way, they step the other: You’re not in any kind of rhythm.

Holl’s entire season has been out of step. He’s added next to nothing offensively for the Leafs, which is fine, so long as he’s strong defensively, which he hasn’t been.

So general manager Kyle Dubas and coach Keefe have different kinds of determinations to make. The coach has to figure out whether to play Holl, where to play him, how to play him. Good coaches have forever found ways to hide and protect mediocre defencemen. Holl’s ice time has already been reduced of late.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JT AM da real deal and Wendelstache
I don't remember Justin Holl struggling to process the game last season, and I don't know how much of it is on Jake Muzzin's decline either.

He just seems confused about his role sometimes. I think they've just empowered him to let loose and contribute to the transition game too much and instead of a simple and clean game focusing on sealing the wall, clearing the net, off the glass and out or keep the puck moving north, he just kind of over complicates things like he has the toolset of an Alex Pietrangelo. Cut out the more frilly plays and stop over thinking your options.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nylanderthal, JT AM da real deal, Captain14 and 1 other person
With his limited skill sets and tendency to be a spectator on some shifts, he's probably more suited in a limited role.

I think he would be effective playing 13-15min/game with PK time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JT AM da real deal
Wendelstache said:
With his limited skill sets and tendency to be a spectator on some shifts, he's probably more suited in a limited role.

I think he would be effective playing 13-15min/game with PK time.
Click to expand...
Agreed, now we just have to find the team to ship him to to fill that role.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JT AM da real deal
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom