Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

Where would you prefer Slaf spend his 23-24 season?


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DAChampion

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May 28, 2011
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quite clearly it doesn't mean what you think it means in the context of athlete development, feel free to DM me if you'd like to be pointed towards some resources that might help with that understanding, or lack thereof

Again, please look up and study the meaning of "linear".

It means to change in a straight line and at a constant rate, which nobody actually implied or indicated in this conversation.

Prospects will not develop at constant rates. That is so obvious that it should not need to be said. Linear developer isn't a thing.

That's why people speak of "development curves" and not "development lines". There's no such thing as a development line.
 

Miller Time

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Sep 16, 2004
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Again, please look up and study the meaning of "linear".

It means to change in a straight line and at a constant rate, which nobody actually implied or indicated in this conversation.

Prospects will not develop at constant rates. That is so obvious that it should not need to be said. Linear developer isn't a thing.

That's why people speak of "development curves" and not "development lines". There's no such thing as a development line.
dude, i'm sorry but you are way off here... and again twisting around instead of just owing a mistake.

not interested in going back and forth in semantic debate. Take a minute to look up any literature on LTAD and you may revisit your understanding.

but, to the backtracking on what you meant... you are right, it is so obvious that people do not develop at a constant or set rate. Therefore, building an opinion or take off of a misguided and flat out false "rule of thumb" is a great way to come up with a bad take.

a player does not need to dominate at an inferior level in order to be ready to develop at a higher level, that is and remains a very poor take precisely because of how obvious it is that prospects develop at differing rates. thanks for pointing out the flaw in your initial argument.

:cheers:
 
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DAChampion

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dude, i'm sorry but you are way off here... and again twisting around instead of just owing a mistake.

not interested in going back and forth in semantic debate. Take a minute to look up any literature on LTAD and you may revisit your understanding.

but, to the backtracking on what you meant... you are right, it is so obvious that people do not develop at a constant or set rate. Therefore, building an opinion or take off of a misguided and flat out false "rule of thumb" is a great way to come up with a bad take.

a player does not need to dominate at an inferior level in order to be ready to develop at a higher level, that is and remains a very poor take precisely because of how obvious it is that prospects develop at differing rates. thanks for pointing out the flaw in your initial argument.

:cheers:

:facepalm:,

There is no such thing as a "development line", as far as I know, nobody's ever used that term.

I will not waste my time on more of your ignorant posts on the topic.
 
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Miller Time

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:facepalm:,

There is no such thing as a "development line", as far as I know, nobody's ever used that term.

I will not waste my time on more of your ignorant posts on the topic.
perhaps you should spend some time getting familiar with the subject matter before spouting off so ignorantly about it :dunno:
 

Jabba11

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Logan Cooley with 2 assists in his first NHL game. It's gonna be hard but I think he'll outproduce Slaf this year, but Slaf's ceiling will take longer to reach but the reward might be better too. I'm confident in Slaf's progression. What do you all think?
 
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morhilane

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Logan Cooley with 2 assists in his first NHL game. It's gonna be hard but I think he'll outproduce Slaf this year, but Slaf's ceiling will take longer to reach but the reward might be better too. I'm confident in Slaf's progression. What do you all think?
Cooley is going to get more offensive TOI than Slaf going by their respective first game. He should have an higher tally than Slaf despite a lower production per 60 minutes just based on that.

Cooley had 63% ozone starts at even strength with 5 minutes of PP for a total of 19 minutes played. Both his points were on the power play.

Slaf had 40% ozone start in his first game, 1:27 minutes of PP time for a total of 15:25 minutes.
 

Shawnathon

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Cooley is going to get more offensive TOI than Slaf going by their respective first game. He should have an higher tally than Slaf despite a lower production per 60 minutes just based on that.

Cooley had 63% ozone starts at even strength with 5 minutes of PP for a total of 19 minutes played. Both his points were on the power play.

Slaf had 40% ozone start in his first game, 1:27 minutes of PP time for a total of 15:25 minutes.
It’s like teams use their offensive players to get results other then the peanuts they get from them defensively:
 

JeffreyLFC

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Logan Cooley with 2 assists in his first NHL game. It's gonna be hard but I think he'll outproduce Slaf this year, but Slaf's ceiling will take longer to reach but the reward might be better too. I'm confident in Slaf's progression. What do you all think?
We need to stop focusing on other players and making sure own players become very good contributor.
 

BehindTheTimes

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Jun 24, 2018
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:facepalm:,

There is no such thing as a "development line", as far as I know, nobody's ever used that term.

I will not waste my time on more of your ignorant posts on the topic.
He speaks with such confidence too. Dunning Kruger effect on full display on this thread.
perhaps you should spend some time getting familiar with the subject matter before spouting off so ignorantly about it :dunno:
haha this shit is funny. Miller time, the authority on athletic development. Nothing Dachamp has said is incorrect. You’ve not offered any correction or thoughtful insight, just insistence that you know the subject better than him.

When people do that the opposite is usually true. Who has Miller time worked with to get to the next level?
 
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ReHabs

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We need to stop focusing on other players and making sure own players become very good contributor.
Fully agreed. I hope to see you post this when the usual uncool crowd trash Shane Wright, Matvei Michkov, Frank Nazar, or other prospects in other organizations who have struggled at times.
 
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Miller Time

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He speaks with such confidence too. Dunning Kruger effect on full display on this thread.

haha this shit is funny. Miller time, the authority on athletic development. Nothing Dachamp has said is incorrect. You’ve not offered any correction or thoughtful insight, just insistence that you know the subject better than him.

When people do that the opposite is usually true. Who has Miller time worked with to get to the next level?
How cute.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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The ideal development isn't one you dominate, it's one where you are properly challenged. And that's true for everything in life.
I don’t agree with this. I think if you dominate at a lower level you gain confidence, experiment with different things, learn from success.

It’s not the same for every player but that’s the path I think that will lead to success as a whole.
Now there's a reasonable debate to be had on whether the NHL or AHL was the more appropriate challenge level for him last year, but in an ideal world you would never dominate a lower tier league for a whole season, you'd get promoted to a higher tier league so that you'd remain sufficiently challenged all year.
Hutson and Roy both dominated their respective leagues. I think it benefited them.As for Slaf, I’m on record as having said that I’d have preferred him in the minors last year and this season.

End of the day though, if he’s able to have success being developed at the NHL level instead, so be it. Why quibble over how it happens as long as it happens? Many ways to skin a cat. If he’s successful does it matter how it was done? Maybe for academic purposes but I won’t really care.

The club said it had a specific plan for his development last year. That got interrupted by injury. So who knows how it would’ve turned out. His season was pretty good until the team slumped badly.

My only hope is that if we’re keeping him up that he stays in the top six.
 
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JeffreyLFC

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Sep 29, 2017
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Fully agreed. I hope to see you post this when the usual uncool crowd trash Shane Wright, Matvei Michkov, Frank Nazar, or other prospects in other organizations who have struggled at times.
I don't care about other prospects that much. I am a hockey fan and I like following other prospect but I will never harass or have an obsession over other team prospects.
 
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absolute garbage

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Jan 22, 2006
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You know, if Cooley and Michkov become the kind of 100 point players Montreal has been desperately missing for a loooooong time, which is kinda realistic when you look at them now, and Slafkovsky and Reinbacher become good players but don't reach that superstar level... is it going to be another decade of Habs fans frustration regarding lacking that elite talent upfront?
 

DAChampion

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You know, if Cooley and Michkov become the kind of 100 point players Montreal has been desperately missing for a loooooong time, which is kinda realistic when you look at them now, and Slafkovsky and Reinbacher become good players but don't reach that superstar level... is it going to be another decade of Habs fans frustration regarding lacking that elite talent upfront?

People who are miserable will be frustrated either way.

Hundreds of decisions go into making a team, and there will always be several wrong ones among them.
 

Revansky

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Mar 17, 2013
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You know, if Cooley and Michkov become the kind of 100 point players Montreal has been desperately missing for a loooooong time, which is kinda realistic when you look at them now, and Slafkovsky and Reinbacher become good players but don't reach that superstar level... is it going to be another decade of Habs fans frustration regarding lacking that elite talent upfront?
I think Michkov would sting more as he was projected to be an elite and exceptional player since a long time before the draft. Cooley wasn't seen as a potential 100 points player at the draft and he would need to exceed expectactions to reach that point. He has the potential to be a high productive 1C with a consistent 70-80 points output and maybe a peak year around 85. He was my choice in 2022 and still think it was a bold strategy to take a winger instead of comparable prospect at C and D. But if Slaf become a top line producer and brings an element of physicality, it could still be worth it. Still a long way to go though but his first game was really good !
 
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BaseballCoach

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I don’t agree with this. I think if you dominate at a lower level you gain confidence, experiment with different things, learn from success.

It’s not the same for every player but that’s the path I think that will lead to success as a whole.

Hutson and Roy both dominated their respective leagues. I think it benefited them.As for Slaf, I’m on record as having said that I’d have preferred him in the minors last year and this season.

End of the day though, if he’s able to have success being developed at the NHL level instead, so be it. Why quibble over how it happens as long as it happens? Many ways to skin a cat. If he’s successful does it matter how it was done? Maybe for academic purposes but I won’t really care.

The club said it had a specific plan for his development last year. That got interrupted by injury. So who knows how it would’ve turned out. His season was pretty good until the team slumped badly.

My only hope is that if we’re keeping him up that he stays in the top six.
Even top 9, provided that his center is either Suzuki, Dach or Monahan.
 

Sorinth

Registered User
Jan 18, 2013
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I don’t agree with this. I think if you dominate at a lower level you gain confidence, experiment with different things, learn from success.

It’s not the same for every player but that’s the path I think that will lead to success as a whole.

Hutson and Roy both dominated their respective leagues. I think it benefited them.As for Slaf, I’m on record as having said that I’d have preferred him in the minors last year and this season.

End of the day though, if he’s able to have success being developed at the NHL level instead, so be it. Why quibble over how it happens as long as it happens? Many ways to skin a cat. If he’s successful does it matter how it was done? Maybe for academic purposes but I won’t really care.

The club said it had a specific plan for his development last year. That got interrupted by injury. So who knows how it would’ve turned out. His season was pretty good until the team slumped badly.

My only hope is that if we’re keeping him up that he stays in the top six.
Most players dominate their league because they don't have anywhere else to play. When the NHL is too tough, or the team is focused on wins over development then players like Roy don't have anywhere else to go but a league they can dominate. And yeah they can continue to develop there it's just they would develop more if they were in a tougher league where they wouldn't be able to dominate. For Roy had he been able to play in the AHL last year that would probably have been a better development environment then going back to the CHL and dominating it again.

With your logic, the exceptional status designation to allow 15 year olds in the CHL is bad for their development as you think they would learn/develop more staying in Midget hockey and dominating it even more. And like I said it's not even a hockey thing, you want to get better at playing chess? Well the best environment is playing against players slightly better then you, it's not going to help you much dominating worse chess players. Want to get better at math, that's not going to happen by focusing on "dominating" the times tables, it's by working on math problems that are an actual challenge for you.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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Jul 20, 2007
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Most players dominate their league because they don't have anywhere else to play. When the NHL is too tough, or the team is focused on wins over development then players like Roy don't have anywhere else to go but a league they can dominate. And yeah they can continue to develop there it's just they would develop more if they were in a tougher league where they wouldn't be able to dominate. For Roy had he been able to play in the AHL last year that would probably have been a better development environment then going back to the CHL and dominating it again.

With your logic, the exceptional status designation to allow 15 year olds in the CHL is bad for their development as you think they would learn/develop more staying in Midget hockey and dominating it even more. And like I said it's not even a hockey thing, you want to get better at playing chess? Well the best environment is playing against players slightly better then you, it's not going to help you much dominating worse chess players. Want to get better at math, that's not going to happen by focusing on "dominating" the times tables, it's by working on math problems that are an actual challenge for you.
As I said, it’s not for every player but as a whole. You’re absolutely right that there are players where it wouldn’t make sense. Mario Lemieux walked into the NHL and dominated. I mean what’s the point of leaving hi. In the minors? He was clearly ready,

But that’s the exception to the rule. I think most players benefit from playing in a lower league, dominating and then moving up.
 
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BaseballCoach

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Dec 15, 2006
21,240
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Most players dominate their league because they don't have anywhere else to play. When the NHL is too tough, or the team is focused on wins over development then players like Roy don't have anywhere else to go but a league they can dominate. And yeah they can continue to develop there it's just they would develop more if they were in a tougher league where they wouldn't be able to dominate. For Roy had he been able to play in the AHL last year that would probably have been a better development environment then going back to the CHL and dominating it again.

With your logic, the exceptional status designation to allow 15 year olds in the CHL is bad for their development as you think they would learn/develop more staying in Midget hockey and dominating it even more. And like I said it's not even a hockey thing, you want to get better at playing chess? Well the best environment is playing against players slightly better then you, it's not going to help you much dominating worse chess players. Want to get better at math, that's not going to happen by focusing on "dominating" the times tables, it's by working on math problems that are an actual challenge for you.
So well said! Even the typical 16 year old rookie in the CHL starts on the 3rd or 4th line instead of dominating Midget AAA. It's necessary.
 

Kennerback

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Jun 2, 2021
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Logan Cooley with 2 assists in his first NHL game. It's gonna be hard but I think he'll outproduce Slaf this year, but Slaf's ceiling will take longer to reach but the reward might be better too. I'm confident in Slaf's progression. What do you all think?
He plays on the 1st PP. I thought Cooley’s game was no better than Slaf’s first game.. However, Cooley plays Center and was OK two ways. Plus, you saw, he’s adjusting to the NHL. I think 3 or 4 times he tried deaking 3 guys in zone entries. Low percentage plays in the NHL. For a first game, Cooley was excellent,
 

BaseballCoach

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Dec 15, 2006
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As I said, it’s not for every player but as a whole. You’re absolutely right that there are players where it wouldn’t make sense. Mario Lemieux walked into the NHL and dominated. I mean what’s the point of leaving hi. In the minors? He was clearly ready,

But that’s the exception to the rule. I think most players benefit from playing in a lower league, dominating and then moving up.
You didn't really deal with @Sorinth's argument. You just keep asserting things that are NOT taught in Coaching Development courses. According to the best science we have on Athlete development, Sorinth is right.
 
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