Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[Miller Time]

Prospects should dominate or at least do well at one level for an extended period before jumping to the next level, moreso if there will be a significant offset in total ice time.

Interesting.

And could not disagree more lol.

Assumes linear progression that is demonstrably false when it comes to elite athlete development.

But certainly, if that misguide rule of thumb is what drives this narrative, then the "mistake" has been made and is definitive. Too bad for Juraj I guess

I think this is great in an idealistic world, but there are many examples of players who don't dominate lower levels before jumping to the NHL.

Brady Tkachuk didn't dominate the NCAA and he put up more points for the Sens last year than anyone not named Alex Kovalev has for the Habs in almost year 30 years.

It's only great in an imaginary world.

In the real world, individuals don't behave like statistical averages.

 

[DAChampion]

I think this is great in an idealistic world, but there are many examples of players who don't dominate lower levels before jumping to the NHL.

Brady Tkachuk didn't dominate the NCAA and he put up more points for the Sens last year than anyone not named Alex Kovalev has for the Habs in almost year 30 years.

I said "rule of thumb", not "law of nature".

Also Brady Tkachuk didn't spend his rookie campaign in a 4th line role, so he's not a counterexample to what I wrote.

Assumes linear progression

You don't even know what "linear" means, so don't use the term incorrectly.

No, nobody assumed "linear progression", you might have mistakenly inferred that I assumed "monotonic progression."

 

[Miller Time]

You don't even know what "linear" means, so don't use the term incorrectly.

No, nobody assumed "linear progression", you might have mistakenly inferred that I assumed "monotonic progression."

Easy tiger, no need to get all upset and personal because your silly "rule of thumb" comment doesn't hold up.

What you described is indeed an assumption of linear progression... might want to revisit your rule, or a dictionary

Prospects should dominate or at least do well at one level for an extended period before jumping to the next level, moreso if there will be a significant offset in total ice time.

I said "rule of thumb", not "law of nature".

Also Brady Tkachuk didn't spend his rookie campaign in a 4th line role, so he's not a counterexample to what I wrote.

This is what a pretzel looks like lol

 

[417]

I said "rule of thumb", not "law of nature".

There are many more examples. Just named one off the top of my head.

But fair enough .

Also Brady Tkachuk didn't spend his rookie campaign in a 4th line role, so he's not a counterexample to what I wrote.

Again, fair point, which just drives home the point that focusing on a player “dominating” a level, before determining his ability to graduate a level, completely ignores context and contributing factors.

You'd swear there's a template that every player must follow, but development is a lot more complex and volatile.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Jeez a 1st line player in the NHL should be a 80+ point guy consistently.

Montreals first liners are like 50-70 points. That should be 2nd line

30-50 for third and 10-30 for fourth.

That’s my opinion.

Yes but its not the reality in the NHL

 

[DAChampion]

What you described is indeed an assumption of linear progression...

Please look up the meaning of "linear".

There are many more examples. Just named one off the top of my head.

But fair enough .

Again, fair point, which just drives home the point that focusing on a player “dominating” a level, before determining his ability to graduate a level, completely ignores context and contributing factors.

You'd swear there's a template that every player must follow, but development is a lot more complex and volatile.

It's also possible that in Slafkovsky's case he would turn out the same either way.

What I'm seeing is a significant change that happened over the summer. It may be that difference is due to him training properly physically and mentally in the Off-season.

People were making fun of the sunglasses he was wearing but maybe that was actually a good idea.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I think this is great in an idealistic world, but there are many examples of players who don't dominate lower levels before jumping to the NHL.

Brady Tkachuk didn't dominate the NCAA and he put up more points for the Sens last year than anyone not named Alex Kovalev has for the Habs in almost year 30 years.

Brady Tkachuk made his team out of camp because he performed and he went on to have a good rookie year. We knew in the build up to the rookie season for Slafkovsky that he wasn’t ready. After training camp, it was much more clear that he wasn’t yet management still kept him. That decision confused a lot of people because you usually don’t see players that green skating around the NHL that green even if the team is rebuilding.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Brady Tkachuk made his team out of camp because he performed and he went on to have a good rookie year. We knew in the build up to the rookie season for Slafkovsky that he wasn’t ready. After training camp, it was much more clear that he wasn’t yet management still kept him. That decision confused a lot of people because you usually don’t see players that green skating around the NHL that green even if the team is rebuilding.

It was explained pretty explicitly.. people are free to disagree with their reasons why but they had a plan and reasons that factored into their decisions.

 

[nhlfan9191]

It was explained pretty explicitly.. people are free to disagree with their reasons why but they had a plan and reasons that factored into their decisions.

I understand that. But why are we comparing Slafkovsky’s reasoning for being here to another NHL player who isn’t comparable to him which Brady Tkachuk isn’t.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I understand that. But why are we comparing Slafkovsky’s reasoning for being here to another NHL player who isn’t comparable to him which Brady Tkachuk isn’t.

Brady was brought in because people are putting these parameters in that for a player to play in the NHL they have to have dominated another level first - and Brady didn't.

 

[Redux91]

I’m just bringing a bit of balance and I’m fighting a losing battle trying to do so.

Yeah no, if that's really what you were trying to do (and been trying to do all summer basically)
The cascading waves of common sense wouldn't be overwhelming you.

What you're having trouble with is you made your decision already July 7th 2022 along with 3-4 others and have been backed into a corner since then.

Why it feels so weird, is you guys were only a handful and making MOST of the noise for a long time, laughing it up, being divisive, so you appear as 'many' but....

 

[417]

It's also possible that in Slafkovsky's case he would turn out the same either way.

I don't think there's truly a way in knowing this.

What I'm seeing is a significant change that happened over the summer. It may be that difference is due to him training properly physically and mentally in the Off-season.

People were making fun of the sunglasses he was wearing but maybe that was actually a good idea.

Perhaps the significant change, has to do with the experience he had last year.

While many think it was detrimental, maybe it was beneficial to him.

 

[417]

Brady Tkachuk made his team out of camp because he performed and he went on to have a good rookie year.

Indeed, but his rookie season would have looked similar to Slafkovsky had his usage been similar.

Tkachuk has been a 1st liner on the Sens from the moment he stepped on the ice, regardless of performance, regardless of mistakes or defensive lapses (and there were/are many).

This was not the same context that Slafkovsky played under last year.

We knew in the build up to the rookie season for Slafkovsky that he wasn’t ready. After training camp, it was much more clear that he wasn’t yet management still kept him. That decision confused a lot of people because you usually don’t see players that green skating around the NHL that green even if the team is rebuilding.

Agreed, it's not typical...but it doesn't have to mean it's detrimental either. It's perhaps not as rare as we think either. There are many examples of kids being brought along slowly in the NHL.

Maybe less so at 18 vs 19, but it happens.

I think our previous experiences with prospects has really given us PTSD...but maybe prospects, or in this case Slafkovsky, isn't that fragile.

He didn't light the world on fire last year, I wouldn't argue otherwise...but nothing happened to cause the amount of angst we've witness in this thread over the last 12 months, other than "prospect envy".

I understand that. But why are we comparing Slafkovsky’s reasoning for being here to another NHL player who isn’t comparable to him which Brady Tkachuk isn’t.

I brought Tkachuk as a parallel, not a direct comparison, because the conversation was about how prospects should dominate lower levels before graduating.

So I pointed to Tkachuk as an example of a player who did not dominate the NCAA before jumping to the NHL.

 

[Sorinth]

The ideal development isn't one you dominate, it's one where you are properly challenged. And that's true for everything in life.

Now there's a reasonable debate to be had on whether the NHL or AHL was the more appropriate challenge level for him last year, but in an ideal world you would never dominate a lower tier league for a whole season, you'd get promoted to a higher tier league so that you'd remain sufficiently challenged all year.

 

[DAChampion]

The ideal development isn't one you dominate, it's one where you are properly challenged. And that's true for everything in life.

Great correction.

 

[Kennerback]

Yeah no, if that's really what you were trying to do (and been trying to do all summer basically)
The cascading waves of common sense wouldn't be overwhelming you.

What you're having trouble with is you made your decision already July 7th 2022 along with 3-4 others and have been backed into a corner since then.

Why it feels so weird, is you guys were only a handful and making MOST of the noise for a long time, laughing it up, being divisive, so you appear as 'many' but....

I’m a lover, not a hater. I can recognize what he’s doing well. I don’t think I’m being divisive. Slaf had trouble last season handling the speed of the NHL. His IQ was questioned. He had a good first game this season. He was more involved in the play, had more puck touches and made a couple of nice passes.

I have my own personal list of benchmarks that I want to see from Slaf. It has nothing to do with stats. I just want to see progress in those areas.

 

[Goldthorpe]

Two random thoughts on Slaf:

1) I like that he seem to develop an edge to his game, or at least a cockyness. I couldn't really see it last year, and it was troublesome, because you want a player like him to really want it. Clearly this is coming with his confidence, and it's a relief.

2) Something nobody mentions (because we are still far away from this situation), is how Slaf will be in the playoffs. Looking at his past performances internationally, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he shines in the postseason, as tournament players tend to do.

 

[salbutera]

Habs were one of the last orgs in the cap era to start introducing prospects on the NHL roster before spending min 2-3 years being “developed” in AHL.

Even though at the dawn of the cap era most teams didn’t hesitate bringing in 18 & 19 year olds, Habs never did till 19-yr old Latendresse followed by 19-yr old Galchenyuk in 2013 lockout season, followed by 18-yr old KK & Slaf last season

4-teenagers in last 18 years (cap era) or 6-teens in last 100+ years (incl Wickenheiser & Svoboda)

Despite “development time in AHL” output has been considerably shabby over last 49-years - avg-to-below avg compared to rest of the league over that period

 

[FerrisRox]

Jeez a 1st line player in the NHL should be a 80+ point guy consistently.

Montreals first liners are like 50-70 points. That should be 2nd line

30-50 for third and 10-30 for fourth.

That’s my opinion.

How many 50 point players played on their teams third lines last year?

 

[Rapala]

Credit where credit is due. Slaf worked his ass off over the summer and it shows.

 

[Miller Time]

The ideal development isn't one you dominate, it's one where you are properly challenged. And that's true for everything in life.

Now there's a reasonable debate to be had on whether the NHL or AHL was the more appropriate challenge level for him last year, but in an ideal world you would never dominate a lower tier league for a whole season, you'd get promoted to a higher tier league so that you'd remain sufficiently challenged all year.

bingo

the team understood this perfectly well, and it was reflected in their approach and the public commentary from both team and player... some just chose not to listen, or simply couldn't understand what was being explained quite plainly

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

How many paragraphs has it been now on slaf rehabs , 100? 1000? 10 000????

 

[Gillings]

Yes but its not the reality in the NHL

Agreed

 

[BLONG7]

I absolutely hated how Bergevin did things! I was posting mostly on Habs twitter during Bergevin era, and a bit on reddit (an awful place) and it was like touching a madness rune.

Again, fair to say, the habs and Slaf are both a work in progress??

 

[Miller Time]

Please look up the meaning of "linear".

quite clearly it doesn't mean what you think it means in the context of athlete development, feel free to DM me if you'd like to be pointed towards some resources that might help with that understanding, or lack thereof

Again, fair to say, the habs and Slaf are both a work in progress??

might be the #1 attribute about the current Habs leadership group... they behave with the rare mix of confident assertiveness and reflective humility. You can bet that MSL & Hughes will view themselves as a "work in progress" right through till their last day on the job, as all great leaders are