Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[RationalExpectations]

Bobrov and hughes don't deserve the benefit of the doubt , they did mess up in NYR they were ass at drafting.

That said its still to early to tell they need 3-4 years so we can see if all these dudes are busts. Also if the rebuild fails they will be on the chopping block much earlier than Marc *cant get fired because of CP31* bergevin , for obvious reasons that I wont get into

True they screwed up the 7OA and 9OA with Andersson and Kravstov but jury is still out there for Kakko Lafreniere. I still think Kakko can become much more.

Lafreniere over Stutzle was a blunder but pretty sure they went for consensus pick given the failures from past years.

Weirdly enough their best picks were in the 20/30 range with Miller Schneider Chytil. Hence there is still hope

Not searching for excuses, Slaf was not my pick and I did not think Bobrov was a great choice given his track record.

Personally, i think what would be more realistic for Slaf is a career a la Rick Nash. If we can get that out of him it will be a total success.

Nash was never the best player in the league nor even close to it. Was a terrific player for his team tho who bringed a lot, a lot to the table.

Yes fully agreed, Nash is the high end comparable in my opinion. Let s hope the team works better than the blue Jackets though…

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Okay.

It’s mostly Lindros. :laugh;

19 goals with a 3rd line center and minutes. He would've easily reached 35-40 with most 1st line centers and first line minutes, 1PP minutes too.

You can repeat your childish reply, but I'm far from the only one who thinks this. Maybe get out of the Havs board every once in awhile. Go to the history section. You were even corrected by someone else about how much Leclair scored without Lindros and yet your response... childish.

 

[waitin425]

The thing is with Slaf , they already butchered his debuts.

Did Boston butcher Joe Thornton's debut? Did Jersey butcher Hughes debut? Similar production for both players? Butcher is not only a strong word, it sounds like a conclusive word. We don't know this yet.

He should have never been playing in the NHL last season. On top of that he should have went to the world cup during christmas like all other teams did with their top prospect.

World Cup is not played during Christmas, but I'll give that to ya as a typo. Yes, I agree it would have been nice to see him in the WJHC. It is fun and good for confidence IMO.

This season we are between 2 worlds. You take a guess and if it flops again , you go the Kotkaniemi road or Lafreniere, or you go AHL and let him build confidence with an actual decent AHL team.

2 worlds? World 1 - We keep him up and there is a possibility he turns into Kotka or Laf. Neither are finished products but I agree, we want him to be more than those two at this point. Possibility is the key word here. We don't know that this is the definite path in world 1. World 2 - goes to the AHL and build confidence? Interesting, that you left out the word possibly. Indicative of your bias here. We don't know he builds confidence in the AHL. He may not. It may crush him.

At this moment , Slaf is not a top 6 player and id rather put Newhook on the wing top 6 to give him some chance.

Slaf is not a top 6 winger...but Newhook is with his outstanding 30 point season last year in Colorado? Both of these guys have untapped potential, both have top 6 potential. Both need NHL time to achieve that. Interesting that you don't advocate for Newhook to start in the A. Newhook as a natural centre, falls to third line. When Dvorak comes up, Beck graduates, Monahan gets traded, Newhook will have a spot in our top 6. For now, he will develop better leading a third line than Slaf would as a third line winger. Slaf stays top 6 IMO.

Would be actually good for now and if Monahan gets injured again or Slaf looks ready then you just move Newhook or Monahan away. We know that Monahan is gone at the TDL anyways

We don't actually know if Money is gone at the deadline. He is the perfect vet to support our Captain.

 

[BaseballCoach]

But Slafkovsky is our 'insert number here' best forward/player so we must play him in the NHL, because it's win now, duh!

I believe you are off base and I will say why.

If it were true that playing Slafkovsky on a third line would help us win right now, then he really does not belong in Laval, does he?

And if you think playing him on the third line, while not helping us right now, will help us win later this season, then you are indirectly endorsing the view that in-NHL development will be significant.

I understand the argument that Slafkovsky should go to the AHL because he is drowning in the NHL, not contributing at all. I don't agree with that assessment but I understand the logic of demoting him if the decision-makers feel he cannot handle NHL shifts.

However, if you are making a pro-tank argument, mocking the need to win now, and implying Slaf will "unfortuntely" help us win now, then first of all the post should not be made here, but only in a tank thread, and secondly, you are agreeing with my assessment that he belongs in the NHL by professional sports standards, where teams do not purposely make stupid moves to lose more right from the beginning of the season.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Did Boston butcher Joe Thornton's debut? Did Jersey butcher Hughes debut? Similar production for both players? Butcher is not only a strong word, it sounds like a conclusive word. We don't know this yet.

Agreed. It is a rhetorical trick to assume your conclusion.

World Cup is not played during Christmas, but I'll give that to ya as a typo. Yes, I agree it would have been nice to see him in the WJHC. It is fun and good for confidence IMO.

Apparently more fun for the fans than for the player or the club, when BOTH said they were not interested in doing the WJC AGAIN.

2 worlds? World 1 - We keep him up and there is a possibility he turns into Kotka or Laf. Neither are finished products but I agree, we want him to be more than those two at this point. Possibility is the key word here. We don't know that this is the definite path in world 1. World 2 - goes to the AHL and build confidence? Interesting, that you left out the word possibly. Indicative of your bias here. We don't know he builds confidence in the AHL. He may not. It may crush him.

Or, another bad outcome, he ingrains more bad habits that he may get away with at weaker levels that he will have to unlearn when he comes back up.

Slaf is not a top 6 winger...but Newhook is with his outstanding 30 point season last year in Colorado? Both of these guys have untapped potential, both have top 6 potential. Both need NHL time to achieve that. Interesting that you don't advocate for Newhook to start in the A. Newhook as a natural centre, falls to third line. When Dvorak comes up, Beck graduates, Monahan gets traded, Newhook will have a spot in our top 6. For now, he will develop better leading a third line than Slaf would as a third line winger. Slaf stays top 6 IMO.

I understand your argument. Objectively Slaf has the higher upside. But I don't care if we don't have exactly our 3 best forwards on 1 line, the next three on a second line and the 7th-9th on the third line.

I just want to see Slaf play with one of Suzuki, Dach or Monahan as his C. I would grudgingly accept if Newhook were his center as long as we had a good player on the RW, but his current placement with Dach is probably a better way to develop him. Just my opinion, of course. If Newhook at C is another project then maybe they should not be on the same line together. If Newhook at C is working and he can drive his line, then ok.

We don't actually know if Money is gone at the deadline. He is the perfect vet to support our Captain.

Agreed again. I just hope he can be healthy this year.

 

[Jaynki]

But Slafkovsky is our 'insert number here' best forward/player so we must play him in the NHL, because it's win now, duh!

No, not because its win now.

Because its better for his development to be in the NHL than in the AHL.

Tough concept to grasp i know

 

[417]

Slaf has confidence. It's some fans who are nervous and apprehensive.

This...all of this.

We're projecting our insecurities and PTSD onto him.

Thanks for participating in my TED talk

Slaf is our 7th or 8th best forward, so technically a third line player, though our 2nd and 3rd lines might get similar ice time if they are pivoted by Dach and Monahan.

Two options:

Newhook-Suzuki-Caufield
Slafkovsky/RHP-Dach-Anderson
RHP/Slaf-Monahan-Gallagher
Pearson-Evans-Ylonen

That's also how I see the lines playing out, although they might use Monahan on the wing and Newhook at C.

I'd really like to see what a Slafkovsky-Dach-Anderson line could do. Dach is just so damn good, makes everyone around him better and that's always how you want to integrate a young talented player. That's how most teams do it.

It's really only in Montreal do we stick young talented players with bottom 6 players and expect them to stand out.

No we don't know that for sure, not at all.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens with Monahan...if he has a good year, will they want to keep him so that he continues being a good influence on player's like Slafkovsky?

I guess they'll get to that decision when it's time.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

19 goals with a 3rd line center and minutes. He would've easily reached 35-40 with most 1st line centers and first line minutes, 1PP minutes too.

You can repeat your childish reply, but I'm far from the only one who thinks this. Maybe get out of the Havs board every once in awhile. Go to the history section. You were even corrected by someone else about how much Leclair scored without Lindros and yet your response... childish.

I don’t agree with you. Simple as that. I don’t need to got to the history of hockey to verify my thoughts on Leclair. I watched him while he was here. I don’t think he was a 50 goal guy just waiting to emerge here.

It is not coincidence that he goes to Philly, olays with arguably the best player in the world and breaks out.

It’s an ingredient that’s been painfully missing for us unfortunately. Dach/Suzuki is the best we’ve got. They can help but it’s not like we have that superstar player who makes everything so much easier for everyone else. When you’re paired with those kinds of players and find success it helps not only with your game but your confidence as well.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I heard them mention it in Marinaro’s show, but if Slaf can develop into a John Leclair type of power forward, that’d be pretty good. Leclair wasn’t a mean and bruising power forward but he was a PITA to deal with when he got going. Don’t see the goal scoring upside, but just saying I’d like to see Slaf develop into that style of power forward.

Me too but not sure if he's a Lecair type or Rantanten type in the end. The issue is he is so young and we are playing the projection game.

Lecair to me was a hard worker when he was with the Habs and started to show promise in that cup run. Scored some big goals for us in that playoffs. Then we traded him and he blosomed into an offensive forward with the Flyers on the Legion of doom line.

The Leclair situation is a learning lesson on a players development. Some shine early and some shine a bit later. We just have to keep supporting Slaf and be patient with it. Positive energy goes a long way IMO.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I believe you are off base and I will say why.

If it were true that playing Slafkovsky on a third line would help us win right now, then he really does not belong in Laval, does he?

And if you think playing him on the third line, while not helping us right now, will help us win later this season, then you are indirectly endorsing the view that in-NHL development will be significant.

I understand the argument that Slafkovsky should go to the AHL because he is drowning in the NHL, not contributing at all. I don't agree with that assessment but I understand the logic of demoting him if the decision-makers feel he cannot handle NHL shifts.

However, if you are making a pro-tank argument, mocking the need to win now, and implying Slaf will "unfortuntely" help us win now, then first of all the post should not be made here, but only in a tank thread, and secondly, you are agreeing with my assessment that he belongs in the NHL by professional sports standards, where teams do not purposely make stupid moves to lose more right from the beginning of the season.

Slafkovsky has little to no impact on the team winning right now unless he has a big jump in production this year. Putting up 20-30 points bouncing between the second and third line is pretty much nothing. Any stop gaps are going to put up those kind of numbers getting those kind of minutes. If Slaf puts up more then that, it was a highly successful season and nobody should care if the team is moving up in the standings because it means our young players are growing which is what we want in the third year of a rebuild. We can’t be in the basement forever.

 

[417]

Slafkovsky has little to no impact on the team winning right now unless he has a big jump in production this year. Putting up 20-30 points bouncing between the second and third line is pretty much nothing. Any stop gaps going to put up those kind of numbers getting those kind of minutes. If Slaf puts up more then that, it was a highly successful season and nobody should care if the team is moving up in the standings because it means our young players are growing which is what we want in the third year of a rebuild. We can’t be in the basement forever.

It's worth less than putting up 40-50pts (presumably) in the AHL?

 

[BaseballCoach]

The Leclair situation is a learning lesson on a players development. Some shine early and some shine a bit later. We just have to keep supporting Slaf and be patient with it. Positive energy goes a long way IMO.

One of the lessons is that for talented players, NCAA development is almost worthless beyond the 1st, maybe 2nd year. Meanwhile, NHL history is full of guys who dominated the NCAA and could not make the step up to the NHL. If a high draft pick who goes to the NCAA is not ready to come to the NHL by age 20, he is likely not going to be a superstar. There is the odd exception, but really not that many.

once in a blue moon, a player stays in the NCAA because the degree is priority #1. That's fine, but these guys are not getting more NHL ready their final 2-3 years, playing 40 games per year in a low contact league even at age 22.

Look at Sean Farrell. He is 22 next month and is nowhere near ready for the NHL despite being the 2nd best scorer in the entire NCAA last year.

It's worth less than putting up 40-50pts (presumably) in the AHL?

Yes, if the fan measures his happiness waking up every morning by the player's stats sheet.

 

[Habs Halifax]

One of the lessons is that for talented players, NCAA development is almost worthless beyond the 1st, maybe 2nd year. Meanwhile, NHL history is full of guys who dominated the NCAA and could not make the step up to the NHL. If a high draft pick who goes to the NCAA is not ready to come to the NHL by age 20, he is likely not going to be a superstar. There is the odd exception, but really not that many.

once in a blue moon, a player stys in the NCAZ because the degree is priority #1. Tha's fine, but these guys are not getting more NHL ready their final 2-3 years, playing 40 games per year in a low contact league even at age 22.


Yes, if the fan measures his happiness waking up every morning by the player's stats sheet.

Good context and I think it's accurate. Exceptions to the rule but the exceptions are not the rule.

Based on what Bob M said... we have to remember that none of Slaf, Nemec, Cooley, Wright, Jiriceck were projected to be sure shot top of the line-up studs. Maybe one or a few of them develop into one but it's just too early to know.

Imagine if this was Slaf's 1st season like Cooley? I think this would be a different conversation today. I'm not really expecting Slaf to be a sure shot top line winger but I do think he can be a complete top 6F if he continues to work on his game and gain experience. He has to want it

 

[nhlfan9191]

It's worth less than putting up 40-50pts (presumably) in the AHL?

This is why I didn’t like Slafkovsky being on the team last year. Management created this unhealthy dynamic where the fanbase and even Slafkovsky himself are going to be comparing his production from one league to the other. It’s not as simple as just comparing his point totals in each league. He should be good enough to be one of the best forwards in Laval, so the value is him getting top 6 minutes consistently on top of playing in all situations and special teams. With that goals and points should come. If they aren’t coming with more opportunity at that level, it just proves he was never ready to be in the NHL in the first place. I think this is where management comes in to play as well. We’ve seen how stubborn some of these guys wearing suits can be when it comes to admitting they were wrong.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

He’s not John Leclaire. My gosh. Lol if he becomes that I would be ecstatic.

If John Leclair was John Leclair at the same age we wouldn’t have traded John Leclair

 

[417]

This is why I didn’t like Slafkovsky being on the team last year. Management created this unhealthy dynamic where the fanbase and even Slafkovsky himself are going to be comparing his production from one league to the other.

This needs to be eliminated from Management's considerations, if it was ever considered at all...what the fanbase expects should be irrelevant to their decision making.

This is something I found that previous administrations cared too much about.

The only expectations that matter are the organizations towards the player. What fans and media want or expect is irrelevant to the process.

In other words...who cares if fans compare his production from one league to another or from one draft pick to another. It has zero bearing on what happens on the ice.

It’s not as simple as just comparing his point totals in each league. He should be good enough to be one of the best forwards in Laval, so the value is him getting top 6 minutes consistently on top of playing in all situations and special teams. With that goals and points should come. If they aren’t coming with more opportunity at that level, it just proves he was never ready to be in the NHL in the first place. I think this is where management comes in to play as well. We’ve seen how stubborn some of these guys wearing suits can be when it comes to admitting they were wrong.

Personally, i'm much more comfortable seeing Slafkovsky develop playing under MSL vs JF Houle.

Not that I think MSL is some miracle worker, he's not...but I've seen how his coaching has impacted Nick Suzuki, Cole Caufield, Kirby Dach, Kaiden Guhle, Arber Xhekaj.

Right now at this point in Slafkovsky's career, the process is much more important than the results (i.e. production). The results portion is/should be covered by guys the team relies on to produce points.

This again, doesn't mean I would be opposed to him being in Laval, but I don't think his camp has warranted him being sent down. There are maybe 5 better wingers on this team than him right now, surely there's room.

 

[le_sean]

Not upset at all, but thanks. *kisses*

Okay, Babey

 

[dcyhabs]

I don't think Slaf's impact on the team is a significant concern. MB played KK in a sheltered role so that the team could make the playoffs, then expected him to play the same role in unsheltered minutes with no transition. KK showed more improvement after some top line minutes in the AHL.

I worry that Slaf will be treated similarly. A few sheltered minutes where he learns to reduce his game and play with defensive players, few chances to practice his offensive skills, and then, suddenly he's a bust because he can't play top 6 at 22 or whatever. I'd much rather see him play top line in the AHL at least part of the time.

 

[Miller Time]

I don’t agree with you. Simple as that. I don’t need to got to the history of hockey to verify my thoughts on Leclair. I watched him while he was here. I don’t think he was a 50 goal guy just waiting to emerge here.

It is not coincidence that he goes to Philly, olays with arguably the best player in the world and breaks out.

It’s an ingredient that’s been painfully missing for us unfortunately. Dach/Suzuki is the best we’ve got. They can help but it’s not like we have that superstar player who makes everything so much easier for everyone else. When you’re paired with those kinds of players and find success it helps not only with your game but your confidence as well.

But your take is clearly wrong...

There's ample evidence that LeClair was a dominant player with & without Lindros in his prime.

Such a silly thing to dig heels in.

This needs to be eliminated from Management's considerations, if it was ever considered at all...what the fanbase expects should be irrelevant to their decision making.

This is something I found that previous administrations cared too much about.

The only expectations that matter are the organizations towards the player. What fans and media want or expect is irrelevant to the process.

In other words...who cares if fans compare his production from one league to another or from one draft pick to another. It has zero bearing on what happens on the ice.

Personally, i'm much more comfortable seeing Slafkovsky develop playing under MSL vs JF Houle.

Not that I think MSL is some miracle worker, he's not...but I've seen how his coaching has impacted Nick Suzuki, Cole Caufield, Kirby Dach, Kaiden Guhle, Arber Xhekaj.

Right now at this point in Slafkovsky's career, the process is much more important than the results (i.e. production). The results portion is/should be covered by guys the team relies on to produce points.

This again, doesn't mean I would be opposed to him being in Laval, but I don't think his camp has warranted him being sent down. There are maybe 5 better wingers on this team than him right now, surely there's room.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

But your take is clearly wrong...

There's ample evidence that LeClair was a dominant player with & without Lindros in his prime.

I didn’t say he wasn’t.

 

[Miller Time]

I didn’t say he wasn’t.

"I don’t think he was a 50 goal guy just waiting to emerge here"...

he didn't become a different player because he played parts of the next few seasons with Lindros. My bad if that's not what you were implying.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

"I don’t think he was a 50 goal guy just waiting to emerge here"...

he didn't become a different player because he played parts of the next few seasons with Lindros. My bad if that's not what you were implying.

I think he did become a different player with him. He immediately put up huge numbers. Had two hat tricks in the first few games playing with him. It was hugely beneficial.

You think he would’ve done that here? No way. I don’t think he’d have become a 50 goal scorer here whether we put him in the first line or not.

 

[Miller Time]

I think he did become a different player with him.

I don’t think he’s have become a 50 goal scorer here whether we put him in the first line or not.

& that what I suggest is demonstrably false.

Fact is that he was a multiple 50 goal scorer, and did so with & without Lindros

But hey, opinions are opinions.

Back to Mailloux

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

& that what I suggest is demonstrably false.

There’s nothing demonstrably false in what I said. He was a 20 goal guy in Montreal and immediately became a star in Philly. And I don’t think it’s just the usage. You think he’d have become that star here with more ice? I don’t agree at all.

His career turned on a dime. A couple of hat tricks right away. There’s no way Lindros didn’t have something to do with that.

All credit to Leclair afterwards. I’m not saying he didn’t have talent, I’m saying he had the benefit of having a superstar bring it out. And that’s what we’ve been missing in Montreal.

Would Chuck have found more success if we had a Jagr? Would he be better after playing with him? Of course he would. Same with say Paccioretty and an Yzerman. But we haven’t had those players since Lafleur.

The guys we have now… Slaf for example, how much would he benefit if we suited him up with Mackinnon tomorrow? It’s be amazing for him. But we don’t have those kinds of players.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I think he did become a different player with him. He immediately put up huge numbers. Had two hat tricks in the first few games playing with him. It was hugely beneficial.

You think he would’ve done that here? No way. I don’t think he’d have become a 50 goal scorer here whether we put him in the first line or not.

In 95-96, Lindros played 73 games and Leclair scored 51 goals.

In 96-97, Lindros played 52 games and Leclair scored.... 50 goals.

Okay, I'll do one more

In 97-98, Lindros played 63 games and Leclair scored 51 goals.

(Leclair played 82 games each of those 3 seasons)

If Lindros had the impact you believe, we would see a parallel variance of Lindros games played versus Leclair goals scored, but we don't. That alone should tell you you're overstating Lindros's impact in regards to Leclair's goalscoring.

Lindros also had his best season playing with Leclair.

Furthermore, in 96-97, in the first 23 games Leclair played and in which Lindros didn't play, Leclair scored 13 goals, which averages out to 46 goals per 82 games.

Give it up already.