Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[morhilane]

To be fair to cooley on that play im pretty sure he would actually die if he absorbed that contact from Byfield

It was Kempe, Byfield is the Kings player who gets the "pass".

 

[Andy]

Cooley is allowed to make mistakes, no? He's a rookie right? Slaf looked rather bad as a rookie too. Why the double-standards?

I don't think there is a double-standard, I think you're missing the point. People are just mocking the Cooley play because it's the type of play that Slaf detractors would not let go. Here you are making excuses for Cooley you wouldn't for Slaf.

Lshap recognizes both Cooley and Slaf are young and are asking for patience for both. I am not sure you are though.

 

[Adam Michaels]

One video, two draft pick lessons.

Cooley showing that 2022's best-pick-de-jour isn't the slam dunk some imagined. Byfield reminding us to chill the f*** out when it comes to teenage players. Byfield spent a lot of time in the AHL the past two season. Whatever its impact, he's showing the benefits of patience and flexibility concerning his development.

I agree about the Cooley and Byfield takes. Cooley isn't as slam dunk as people make him out to be. Almost all of his production comes on the PP. It's still production so credit to the kid. He will be a special player nevertheless. In Byfield's case, I think he's a better example for Slaf because they're both big bodied teenagers and part of their development is growing into their big frames.

I will correct you about Byfield spending a lot of time in the AHL the last two seasons. He spent more time in the NHL than he did in the AHL the last two seasons. He played 27 AHL games and 93 NHL games the last two seasons.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I agree about the Cooley and Byfield takes. Cooley isn't as slam dunk as people make him out to be. Almost all of his production comes on the PP. It's still production so credit to the kid. He will be a special player nevertheless. In Byfield's case, I think he's a better example for Slaf because they're both big bodied teenagers and part of their development is growing into their big frames.

I will correct you about Byfield spending a lot of time in the AHL the last two seasons. He spent more time in the NHL than he did in the NHL the last two seasons. He played 27 AHL games and 93 NHL games the last two seasons.

Alot of kings fans weren't very happy with how he was up and down either

It was Kempe, Byfield is the Kings player who gets the "pass".

yeah my mistake , makes it a bit worst actually

 

[Lshap]

Cooley is allowed to make mistakes, no? He's a rookie right? Slaf looked rather bad as a rookie too. Why the double-standards? (not asking you specifically). I think if you support Slaf-in-the-NHL you should extend the courtesy it implies to other rookies. They WILL make mistakes just as Slafkovsky makes mistakes into his sophomore season.

Byfield did spend time in the AHL so the comparison in development falls apart. Additionally, comparing them as prospects/players... in his draft year Byfield was 2ppg in the OHL which is very good for a D+0 performance as I've come to understand. Slafkovsky's pedigree is, shall we say, different.

If Slaf succeeds it'll be a marvel of modern player development and a sincere game-changer. A competitive team couldn't afford to carry a player like the Habs have with Slafkovsky, so the rush-em-and-let-em-figure-it-out style is circumstantial but if it works, it'll be marvellous. If it doesn't work? Ah well, too late to complain.

I know this debate has so many overlapping opinions it's hard to track who said what. I haven't said a single negative word about Cooley – no double standards on my end. He deserves the same patience as any kid, including Slafkovsky. My comment about his giveaway was directed at those who were convinced he was the better prospect before the season even started. He might be, who knows, but right now he's as subject to bonehead plays as any raw 19 year old.

As for Byfield, I'm not comparing him to Slafkovsky. I'm comparing the organizational approaches of LA versus Montreal. The Kings have used patience and flexibility in developing this kid. They've toggled him between the AHL and NHL, and their approach is paying dividends this season. The Habs have certainly been patient with Slaf; I'm hoping they're not so stuck in a mindset that they refuse to consider sending him to the AHL if he goes through another dry period. Do I have to repeat I wasn't thrilled with the kneejerk decision to leave him in the NHL last season? But that's in the past. Right now, Slaf is showing improvement on a team that isn't competing for the playoffs, so Montreal can afford to let him make mistakes while he develops. As long as he develops. If he's floundering out there, if points don't start appearing, then the AHL should remain a viable option.

 

[Don D]

I don't think there is a double-standard, I think you're missing the point. People are just mocking the Cooley play because it's the type of play that Slaf detractors would not let go. Here you are making excuses for Cooley you wouldn't for Slaf.

Lshap recognizes both Cooley and Slaf are young and are asking for patience for both. I am not sure you are though.

Correctamento!! The Montreal market can eat up a young player. Slaf has weathered the fanstorm so far. KK was unable to and left after three years.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Correctamento!! The Montreal market can eat up a young player. Slaf has weathered the fanstorm so far. KK was unable to and left after three years.

The fans liked KK. He was a key contributor in the 2021 playoff run until Ducharme came back for the finals and doubled down on Staal who was out of gas by then. Mostly, fans were frustrated with Ducharme and MBozo, who enabled and even worsened the unfair expectations.

A portion of the fanbase turned on KK when he accepted the offer sheet, yet he is probably better than Dvorak today, at a similar cap hit locked in for another 7 years.

 

[ReHabs]

I don't think there is a double-standard, I think you're missing the point. People are just mocking the Cooley play because it's the type of play that Slaf detractors would not let go. Here you are making excuses for Cooley you wouldn't for Slaf.

Lshap recognizes both Cooley and Slaf are young and are asking for patience for both. I am not sure you are though.

Those who wanted Slaf elsewhere from the NHL for our own good are called detractors now. Don't tell me you're not contributing to the toxicity.

It's obvious those of us who wanted Slaf elsewhere that his mistakes would be pointed out-- he wasn't producing AND he was making mistakes. What did you expect? Many, many wanted him elsewhere because he wasn't producing and he was making mistakes. There was little justification for keeping him in the NHL last season, and for wanting our not-NHL-level prospect to not be in the NHL, you call us detractors.

Cooley is producing well for a rookie, mistakes come with the territory and can be swallowed.

I know this debate has so many overlapping opinions it's hard to track who said what. I haven't said a single negative word about Cooley – no double standards on my end. He deserves the same patience as any kid, including Slafkovsky. My comment about his giveaway was directed at those who were convinced he was the better prospect before the season even started. He might be, who knows, but right now he's as subject to bonehead plays as any raw 19 year old.

As for Byfield, I'm not comparing him to Slafkovsky. I'm comparing the organizational approaches of LA versus Montreal. The Kings have used patience and flexibility in developing this kid. They've toggled him between the AHL and NHL, and their approach is paying dividends this season. The Habs have certainly been patient with Slaf; I'm hoping they're not so stuck in a mindset that they refuse to consider sending him to the AHL if he goes through another dry period. Do I have to repeat I wasn't thrilled with the kneejerk decision to leave him in the NHL last season? But that's in the past. Right now, Slaf is showing improvement on a team that isn't competing for the playoffs, so Montreal can afford to let him make mistakes while he develops. As long as he develops. If he's floundering out there, if points don't start appearing, then the AHL should remain a viable option.

Can you define patience in this circumstance? What would lack-of-patience from the Habs look like?

 

[Mrb1p]

What if Slaf makes a turnover like this?

He does, did and will do.

 

[Kennerback]

I don't think there is a double-standard, I think you're missing the point. People are just mocking the Cooley play because it's the type of play that Slaf detractors would not let go. Here you are making excuses for Cooley you wouldn't for Slaf.

Lshap recognizes both Cooley and Slaf are young and are asking for patience for both. I am not sure you are though.

Unless someone wants to pick on everything that Slaf does wrong, glaring bad turnovers are not a major wedge issue.

 

[Mrb1p]

Unless someone wants to pick on everything that Slaf does wrong, glaring bad turnovers are not a major wedge issue.

Unless they happen every game. (Matheson hi)

 

[admiralcadillac]

Has he improved sufficiently?

So many commentators still see the same mistakes, the same bad plays, the same misreads. So many neutral commentators across the hockey world are puzzled about this whole situation. It's not as simple as saying just claiming that he's improved. We heard "he's improving" every game last season even though today many take it for granted that last season was a big mistake.

Can you find even one recently? You tend to support your opinions by using the term “we”, “us”, “many”, but it’s mostly just you.

 

[Lshap]

Can you define patience in this circumstance? What would lack-of-patience from the Habs look like?

The Habs appear patient with Slafkovsky, which, to me, looks like Marty being supportive of him after a tough shift, playing him with better linemates, giving him better assignments, not benching him after a mistake. Lack of patience would be the opposite behaviour, naturally.

 

[ReHabs]

Can you find even one recently? You tend to support your opinions by using the term “we”, “us”, “many”, but it’s mostly just you.

One? I can show you many.

Is Slafkovsky the worst #1 pick ever ? 629 posts in here, be my guest

Slafkovski reminds me of Pulju 159 posts and counting in here, be my guest

 

[ReHabs]

The Habs appear patient with Slafkovsky, which, to me, looks like Marty being supportive of him after a tough shift, playing him with better linemates, giving him better assignments, not benching him after a mistake. Lack of patience would be the opposite behaviour, naturally.

Totally makes sense. Would you agree with me that the league in which he plays doesn't factor into your definition of patience with a prospect? I think many would disagree with such a restricted definition. I think the division/league in which a prospect is placed (if there are options to choose between) is strongly influenced by the patience an NHL team is willing to show them.

Unless someone wants to pick on everything that Slaf does wrong, glaring bad turnovers are not a major wedge issue.

Exactly so. It's clearly bad faith and mean-spiritedness that drives certain Habs fans from trashing other players and prospects who happened to be or have been compared to Habs prospects.

When Michkov was mis-handled in the KHL pre-season we saw the same crap from the same commentators across the Habs commentary space. They're dead quiet about Michkov now, no surprise. Same will happen with Cooley should Cooley continue to improve. They'll move onto the next target. Anything to make some other player who has nothing to do with us look bad.

 

[417]

One video, two draft pick lessons.

Cooley showing that 2022's best-pick-de-jour isn't the slam dunk some imagined. Byfield reminding us to chill the f*** out when it comes to teenage players. Byfield spent a lot of time in the AHL the past two season. Whatever its impact, he's showing the benefits of patience and flexibility concerning his development.

He spent WAY more time in the NHL during that same timeframe.

27 AHL gamess
93 NHL games + 8 NHL playoff games.

Edit - I just saw that @Adam Michaels already brought this up. My bad.

 

[Lshap]

Totally makes sense. Would you agree with me that the league in which he plays doesn't factor into your definition of patience with a prospect? I think many would disagree with such a restricted definition. I think the division/league in which a prospect is placed (if there are options to choose between) is strongly influenced by the patience an NHL team is willing to show them.

The Montreal Canadiens and the Laval Rocket are like two classes in the same developmental program. It doesn't matter to me which of those leagues a young player is in, as long as it helps him develop skills, confidence, and habits.

I understand the connotations of being 'sent down' to Laval. It is a demotion, after all. In the case of veterans and prospects who can't cut the NHL, it can reflect a lack of patience. However, for a teenager barely a year after being drafted, it can be a normal part of the learning curve.

 

[417]

The Montreal Canadiens and the Laval Rocket are like two classes in the same developmental program. It doesn't matter to me which of those leagues a young player is in, as long as it helps him develop skills, confidence, and habits.

Beautifully written.

I understand the connotations of being 'sent down' to Laval. It is a demotion, after all. In the case of veterans and prospects who can't cut the NHL, it can reflect a lack of patience. However, for a teenager barely a year after being drafted, it can be a normal part of the learning curve.

It can also be detrimental to a player who IMO, and in the opinion of many (not all), has shown clear improvement since he arrived.

He has made a lot of progress in the areas of the game that at some point, will hopefully lead to increased production.

But dogmatically tying his production to his rate of development is a low hanging fruit IMO. There will be a time where his production will have to reflect itself, I don't think that should be the main performance indicator right now.

 

[Lshap]

He spent WAY more time in the NHL during that same timeframe.

27 AHL gamess
93 NHL games + 8 NHL playoff games.

Edit - I just saw that @Adam Michaels already brought this up. My bad.

It doesn't matter to me how much time a developing player spends in the AHL. Whether two years or two weeks, whatever they need to learn is presumably better learned in the slightly slower pace of the AHL than in the NHL.

One of my sons had trouble with calculus at Concordia. He took it in the summer at the CEGEP level, improved his fundamentals, and was able to re-take the Concordia course.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Totally makes sense. Would you agree with me that the league in which he plays doesn't factor into your definition of patience with a prospect? I think many would disagree with such a restricted definition. I think the division/league in which a prospect is placed (if there are options to choose between) is strongly influenced by the patience an NHL team is willing to show them.

Agreed. If you have more patience, you will be less reticent to play a prospect with the big club.

If you are less patient and tend to lash out at youngsters when they make a mistake, you are best to send him down even if the guys you keep are ostensibly just 'safe' plugs.

 

[417]

It doesn't matter to me how much time a developing player spends in the AHL. Whether two years or two weeks, whatever they need to learn is presumably better learned in the slightly slower pace of the AHL than in the NHL.

I mean, I agree it doesn't matter how much time a developing players spends in the AHL...but if he spent 2 weeks there compared to almost 100 games playing and developing in the NHL.

It's hard to then advance that he broke out because of his 2 week stint in the AHL.

One of my sons had trouble with calculus at Concordia. He took it in the summer at the CEGEP level, improved his fundamentals, and was able to re-take the Concordia course.

I understand...but i'll give you an example.

I coach U-14 & U-16 competitive basketball...we took a huge chance on a kid who moved here from Tanzania 2 years ago and had barely played any basketball. Typically, he would play at least a full year of House League basketball before he even got a sniff of competitive teams, but I lobbied hard for him because he just turned 13 and he's 6-4 with a huge wingspan.

We're about 6 weeks into our season, he's barely played, he hasn't scored or contributed much to our team.

But there isn't a single player on our roster who has progressed more and by this time next year, if he continues on this path, he's going to be unstoppable.

We don't measure his progress in points and assists...we measure his progress by the fact that he didn't know how to grab a rebound, or pivot or set a screen or run the floor or block a shot a few weeks ago. Now he does all of those things quite effectively.

I promise you whoever is coaching him in U-13 next season, he's going to thank me for putting him on the team.

This was just an analogy like yours, I fully comprehend that it doesn't necessarily translate at all levels of all sports.

Giannis Antetokounmpo was super raw player drafted out of Greece in 2013, 15th overall...he had never dominated any league he was in prior, people laughed at the draft because of how awkward and skinny he was. His rookie year, people continued to laugh...he looked overmatched.

By year 3...people weren't laughing anymore

 

[Lshap]

But dogmatically tying his production to his rate of development is a low hanging fruit IMO. There will be a time where his production will have to reflect itself, I don't think that should be the main performance indicator right now.

Agreed. But a lack of production has a time limit. As Slaf gains more experience he'll be expected to slowly improve his production, or at least increase his situational awareness that leads to improved production.

 

[Lshap]

I coach U-14 & U-16 competitive basketball...we took a huge chance on a kid who moved here from Tanzania 2 years ago and had barely played any basketball. Typically, he would play at least a full year of House League basketball before he even got a sniff of competitive teams, but I lobbied hard for him because he just turned 13 and he's 6-4 with a huge wingspan.

We're about 6 weeks into our season, he's barely played, he hasn't scored or contributed much to our team.

But there isn't a single player on our roster who has progressed more and by this time next year, if he continues on this path, he's going to be unstoppable.

We don't measure his progress in points and assists...we measure his progress by the fact that he didn't know how to grab a rebound, or pivot or set a screen or run the floor or block a shot a few weeks ago. Now he does all of those things quite effectively.

I promise you whoever is coaching him in U-13 next season, he's going to thank me for putting him on the team.

Really cool story! If the kid becomes a beast he'll forever talk about the coach who gave him his first big chance (even if that coach spent his day obsessing over some hockey message board ).

 

[417]

Really cool story! If the kid becomes a beast he'll forever talk about the coach who gave him his first big chance (even if that coach spent his day obsessing over some hockey message board ).

That coach so happens to have 6 weeks off of work so has more time post on said hockey message board lol

Touché tho

 

[leVENTduNORD]

Those who wanted Slaf elsewhere from the NHL for our own good are called detractors now. Don't tell me you're not contributing to the toxicity.

It's obvious those of us who wanted Slaf elsewhere that his mistakes would be pointed out-- he wasn't producing AND he was making mistakes. What did you expect? Many, many wanted him elsewhere because he wasn't producing and he was making mistakes. There was little justification for keeping him in the NHL last season, and for wanting our not-NHL-level prospect to not be in the NHL, you call us detractors.

Cooley is producing well for a rookie, mistakes come with the territory and can be swallowed.



Can you define patience in this circumstance? What would lack-of-patience from the Habs look like?

No, those who insist on saying Habs management didnt do anything good, those who think and say Habs coaching staff is bad and those who have yet to say something positive could be considered detractors to some level. You check all the boxes, If fact boxes are not big enough as you not only have nothing positive to say about the Habs, but you constantly try to convince anyone who do see good things they're wrong. So yeah stop playing victim, you are the definition of toxic. Toxic enough it's 100% legitimate to question your Habs fandom.



Can't wait for your reply showing the 1 or 2 times you made a somewhat positive comment about the Habs, it's going to be Crazy!