Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[OnTheRun]

You guys need to make up your minds.

Is Slaf to be compared to Rantanen or not? You cannot have it both ways. Rantanen torched the AHL, Rantanen was a much better prospect at the time of his draft, Rantanen is someone who Slafkovksy will never be.

The argument isn’t whether Slafkovsky is a bad player or not — he is a Hab, and a lot was invested to acquire him, so it doesn’t matter — it’s about whether he is being developed correctly.

Slafkovsky is on pace for 15pts in his second NHL season, in his first NHL season he was on pace for 20ish.

Rantanen torched the AHL
Rantanen was a much better prospect at the time of his draft
Rantanen is someone who Slafkovksy will never be
Rantanen was developed correctly

YET...
Rantanen first 50 games in the NHL don't look that much different than the other guy. (But somehow the sky is falling in Slaf case)

 

[Kennedys]

Rantanen torched the AHL
Rantanen was a much better prospect at the time of his draft
Rantanen is someone who Slafkovksy will never be
Rantanen was developed correctly

YET...
Rantanen first 50 games in the NHL don't look that much different than the other guy. (But somehow the sky is falling in Slaf case)

I think you need to actually watch the games to see the difference between Rantanen D+2 and Slaf.

 

[ReHabs]

Rantanen torched the AHL
Rantanen was a much better prospect at the time of his draft
Rantanen is someone who Slafkovksy will never be
Rantanen was developed correctly

YET...
Rantanen first 50 games in the NHL don't look that much different than the other guy. (But somehow the sky is falling in Slaf case)

Rantanen torched the AHL
Rantanen was a much better prospect at the time of his draft
Rantanen is someone who Slafkovksy will never be
Rantanen was developed correctly

YET...
Rantanen first 50 games in the NHL don't look that much different than the other guy. (But somehow the sky is falling in Slaf case)

That’s not a “yet”, it’s an “and”.

As in: MR was a better prospect AND was developed in a better way AND he took off after his first 50 games (finishing his rookie season with 38pts).

How does the above apply to Slafkovsky? Weaker prospect, terrible D+1 season in the NHL, wasn’t allowed to go to the AHL, on pace for an even worse D+2 season in the NHL than his D+1

What’s the point of comparing him to much better players? Some of you also compare him to Jack Hughes. Well, until the second season took off.

I don’t see the point of preaching patience to the guys who want him out of the NHL for his own good.

 

[Egresch]

That’s not a “yet”, it’s an “and”.

As in: MR was a better prospect AND was developed in a better way AND he took off after his first 50 games (finishing his rookie season with 38pts).

How does the above apply to Slafkovsky? Weaker prospect, terrible D+1 season in the NHL, wasn’t allowed to go to the AHL, on pace for an even worse D+2 season in the NHL than his D+1

What’s the point of comparing him to much better players? Some of you also compare him to Jack Hughes. Well, until the second season took off.

I don’t see the point of preaching patience to the guys who want him out of the NHL for his own good.

I agree Slaf is not on track to be next Rantanen. His sky is not that high, especially not with this development. I am still optimistic and believe he can be 70 pts player with very good defensive awareness. I see similar player as Marian Hossa in Chicago.
But you never know, if he get linemates like McKinnon and Makar, he could get some extra points

 

[ReHabs]

I agree Slaf is not on track to be next Rantanen. His sky is not that high, especially not with this development. I am still optimistic and believe he can be 70 pts player with very good defensive awareness. I see similar player as Marian Hossa in Chicago.
But you never know, if he get linemates like McKinnon and Makar, he could get some extra points

Hossa is a legendary player due to his tenacious two way play and his sneaky good all-around ability: passing, shooting, playmaking. We’d be lucky to see such an impact from any player. But I can’t lie, I like your vision!

I see Slafkovsky as a large framed player who can leverage his size to make plays that other players would be not capable of executing due to opposing marking/pressure. He has also (not in the NHL but elsewhere) shown he wants to shoot and attack. He has (not in the MHL but elsewhere) performed under pressure. These are the traits with which HuGoBoMa have fallen in love.

With that said, Slaf has to develop several different aspects of his game which are currently not there yet. A archetypical “this player needs the toolbox” sort of situation. I feel too many of his aspects are lacking for us to ever bear witness to a complete player but that’s just me being a negative hater, I suppose!

I would like to see your vision come alive much more.

 

[Tyson]

A game does not one make but the last game showed that with the right linemates, he can play.
It's called Development.

 

[Jaynki]

A game does not one make but the last game showed that with the right linemates, he can play.
It's called Development.

A game is meaningless in itself.

But the "highs" of dominance he shows are telling a lot about his potential and at 19 years old, we can expect those "highs" to be higher and more frequent. (Consistency!)

On the other ends, we can also expect the "lows" to be higher and less frequent. (Consistency!)

Somehow, a big portion of the fanbase act like Slaf is a finished product, or that he should barely improve. In reality, he is in his windows of maximum growth and he has illimited physical tools. His growth should be exponential.

 

[OnTheRun]

That’s not a “yet”, it’s an “and”.

As in: MR was a better prospect AND was developed in a better way AND he took off after his first 50 games (finishing his rookie season with 38pts).

How does the above apply to Slafkovsky? Weaker prospect, terrible D+1 season in the NHL, wasn’t allowed to go to the AHL, on pace for an even worse D+2 season in the NHL than his D+1

What’s the point of comparing him to much better players? Some of you also compare him to Jack Hughes. Well, until the second season took off.

I don’t see the point of preaching patience to the guys who want him out of the NHL for his own good.

YET...
Rantanen first 50 games in the NHL don't look that much different than the other guy. (But somehow the sky is falling in Slaf case)

I could just keep posting that over and over because Slaf and Rantanen production over their first 50 NHL games will forever be similar and that seems to bother you more than it should, but this isn't what I was looking for.

This:

he took off after his first 50 games (finishing his rookie season with 38pts).

^This is exactly what I was looking for.

You are totally fine with Rantanen pedestrian production in his first 50 NHL games, because and only because, you know how the story end. You know how many points he got in his D+2 and more importantly you know the player he become in the end.

Slaf story on the other hand is still ongoing, there is nothing after his first 50 games, because 50GP is all he got so far.

Comparing his 50 first games to Rantanen 50 first games, was mostly because Rantanen name keep coming back in this thread... but there is absolutely no shortage of players to use.

We'll use Pacioretty this time because he was a Habs pick.
First 50GP: 4G/10A/14P (Fun fact: he scored 12 goals in his first 105 pro games, AHL+NHL)
Yet that kid who scored a mere 4 goals in his first 50 NHL games will go on and become one of the most prolific goal scorer in the NHL between 2012 and 2020 (I think he's 8th or something).

The points is, in both Rantanen/Pacioretty (and a shit ton of other) cases the first 50 games were absolutely NOT representative of the player they would become or their career as a whole.
And in Slafkovsky case, no one f***ing know what his first 50 games represent because it's just not indicative of the future, so we are back to where we started: Take a step back, take a deep breath and wait for a bit.

 

[ReHabs]

YET...
Rantanen first 50 games in the NHL don't look that much different than the other guy. (But somehow the sky is falling in Slaf case)

I could just keep posting that over and over because Slaf and Rantanen production over their first 50 NHL games will forever be similar and that seems to bother you more than it should, but this isn't what I was looking for.

This:

^This is exactly what I was looking for.

You are totally fine with Rantanen pedestrian production in his first 50 NHL games, because and only because, you know how the story end. You know how many points he got in his D+2 and more importantly you know the player he become in the end.

Slaf story on the other hand is still ongoing, there is nothing after his first 50 games, because 50GP is all he got so far.

Comparing his 50 first games to Rantanen 50 first games, was mostly because Rantanen name keep coming back in this thread... but there is absolutely no shortage of players to use.

We'll use Pacioretty this time because he was a Habs pick.
First 50GP: 4G/10A/14P (Fun fact: he scored 12 goals in his first 105 pro games, AHL+NHL)
Yet that kid who scored a mere 4 goals in his first 50 NHL games will go on and become one of the most prolific goal scorer in the NHL between 2012 and 2020 (I think he's 8th or something).

The points is, in both Rantanen/Pacioretty (and a shit ton of other) cases the first 50 games were absolutely NOT representative of the player they would become or their career as a whole.
And in Slafkovsky case, no one f***ing know what his first 50 games represent because it's just not indicative of the future, so we are back to where we started: Take a step back, take a deep breath and wait for a bit.

You’re conflating a bunch of concepts and cannot produce a simple apples to apples analysis.

It is not possible to compare the effectiveness of the development strategy between MR and JS because JS did not play in the AHL in his D+1. That’s a major difference between them that renders any comparison moot. Same applies to Pacioretty.

You need to find a similar case as with Slaf: eg. Joe Thornton, Jack Hughes, etc. High draft pick who played D+1 and D+2 in the NHL. Problem is both JT and JH performed better than JS in their D+2. Oh well, maybe you can rustle up some other player who makes your case for you.

You imply I’m making a prediction about JS’s future capabilities. I am not. So comparisons to other players need to reflect JS’s development strategy.

 

[Egresch]

Hossa is a legendary player due to his tenacious two way play and his sneaky good all-around ability: passing, shooting, playmaking. We’d be lucky to see such an impact from any player. But I can’t lie, I like your vision!

Hossa actually developed his two-way play in Detroit near Datsyuk after he lost his first SC final with Pittsburgh. He was 30, already had his 100 pts season under his belt. I do not think Slaf will ever have so many points, but he is already quite good defensively at 19. Hossa was never ppg in Chicago, so I clearly see a way for Slaf to get that destination, just different route.

 

[Hoochi Papa]

Thornton's D+1
Rantanen's first half of D+2
Maybe Caufield's first half of D+3?
Is there a superstar who had to play through injuries in his D+4?
Someone who lost his D+5 because of lock-out and had only couple of lackluster games in Europe?

 

[OnTheRun]

You’re conflating a bunch of concepts and cannot produce a simple apples to apples analysis.

It is not possible to compare the effectiveness of the development strategy between MR and JS because JS did not play in the AHL in his D+1. That’s a major difference between them that renders any comparison moot. Same applies to Pacioretty.

You need to find a similar case as with Slaf: eg. Joe Thornton, Jack Hughes, etc. High draft pick who played D+1 and D+2 in the NHL. Problem is both JT and JH performed better than JS in their D+2. Oh well, maybe you can rustle up some other player who makes your case for you.

You imply I’m making a prediction about JS’s future capabilities. I am not. So comparisons to other players need to reflect JS’s development strategy.

YET...
Rantanen first 50 games in the NHL don't look that much different than the other guy. (But somehow the sky is falling in Slaf case)
I guess I'll keep going after all!

That's the neat thing, I don't need to do any of that. Why? Because 1) I'm not comparing PLAYERS, I'm comparing first 50 games in the NHL. 2) The whole premise of starting in the AHL is the players will be older, more experienced and more likely to hit the ground running once they are the NHL.

After 50 games in the NHL Patch and Rantanen produced comparable results to a guy who played most of his games in the NHL as a 18 years old with Evans and Pezzetta. That's the reality. Patch/Rantanen first 50GP were not representative of what they would become, that's also the reality. It is unknown if Slaf first 50GP are representative of what he will become, time will tell.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Hossa actually developed his two-way play in Detroit near Datsyuk after he lost his first SC final with Pittsburgh. He was 30, already had his 100 pts season under his belt. I do not think Slaf will ever have so many points, but he is already quite good defensively at 19. Hossa was never ppg in Chicago, so I clearly see a way for Slaf to get that destination, just different route.

That’s not true.
He was getting Selke votes in his 3rd year in the league.

 

[Ajhccwrs]

Any body else cringe when some body uses "on pace" In an argument to discredit a raw 19 yearolds play. When the entire organization isn't even focusing on it?

 

[Ozmodiar]

Jack Hughes, Mikko Rantanen, Jaromir Jagr, Joe Thornton, Marian Hossa, etc.

Let’s keep it going …

Mario Lemieux! Discuss.

 

[Egresch]

That’s not true.
He was getting Selke votes in his 3rd year in the league.

That is how Hossa described it in his biography. I checked it and first real recognition in Selke voting came in 2006, so he was 27.

 

[the valiant effort]

24 year-old Hossa was on a run for the ages in the 2003 playoffs, but didn’t make much happen in the ECF vs the Devils. In round 2 he tortured the Flyers, taunting them as he circled their zone. I thought that guy was going to have a lot more 100 point seasons but damn what a player

 

[lillypad33]

Any body else cringe when some body uses "on pace" In an argument to discredit a raw 19 yearolds play. When the entire organization isn't even focusing on it?

Likely they're the same folks who thought that allowing Carolina to steal KK was a good move. Those people are all quite silent right now and they?

 

[Sorinth]

That is how Hossa described it in his biography. I checked it and first real recognition in Selke voting came in 2006, so he was 27.

Must not have checked very well since he was 14th in Selke voting in 2001-2002 with one 1st, 3rd, 4th, and 5th place vote.

2000-01 NHL Awards Voting | Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[Jaynki]

Any body else cringe when some body uses "on pace" In an argument to discredit a raw 19 yearolds play. When the entire organization isn't even focusing on it?

The only thing he is on-pace right now is to becoming a great NHLer

 

[Shawnathon]

The only thing he is on-pace right now is to becoming a great NHLer

Based on becoming one of the 1/1000 examples who succceed compared to the ones that fail with his level of talent as a teenager? He cashed in on those lame non best on best tournaments.

 

[SlafySZN]

Based on becoming one of the 1/1000 examples who succceed compared to the ones that fail with his level of talent as a teenager? He cashed in on those lame non best on best tournaments.

Yeah because 17 years old in their draft years needs to play the best of the best of the NHL to prove they’re good. That’s news.

 

[calder candidate]

The benefits are oversold on these boards. Dominating a lower level does not guarantee results at the next level. If it did, every Junior, AHL and Euro star would make the NHL on his first try.

It isn’t because all JR player dominating lower level don’t make it that it isn’t a advantages for development… How many players that don’t dominate go on to dominate or even make the NHL…

 

[Jaynki]

Based on becoming one of the 1/1000 examples who succceed compared to the ones that fail with his level of talent as a teenager? He cashed in on those lame non best on best tournaments.

Are you one of those who is higher on Roy than Slafkovsky ?

 

[Shawnathon]

Yeah because 17 years old in their draft years needs to play the best of the best of the NHL to prove they’re good. That’s news.

Proving they’re good or worth a first overall pick is different

Are you one of those who is higher on Roy than Slafkovsky ?

Nobody mentioned Roy. You did. You keep saying path to great player and can’t bring up a reason why other then you like the guy. Your entire posts rely upon putting blind faith and gabbling that a player will end up like YOU think.