Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[417]

Welp ok then. Of course if you believe a player is always exactly what he is there's no real arguments to be made.

I mean, you can "welp ok then" all you want, but i'm not sure how YOU can prove that Kotkaniemi's career would be different today had he spent more time in the AHL.

The onus here is on YOU to provide the burden of proof here.

From my perspective, Jesperi Kotkaniemi was drafted to be a top 6C and that's exactly what he is today. That is demonstrably evident.

The reality is that players show different things at different points, some adapt in different ways and others develop into those. Kotkaniemi had skills for days, now hes more in line with what Danault is skills wise.

Nah...Kotkaniemi at 23 years old is a MUCH better player than Danault was at the same age.

Not sure if you're being serious here.

Either way, to tie this back into Slafkovsky...I know everyone wants to act like the fact he hasn't spent X amount of games in the AHL is going to doom the rest of his career, but a guy like KK is evidence that that premise is entirely false.

What we see now, today during his formative years, isn't necessarily what we're going to see when he's 23-24.

So yeah, it's fine to want him to be sent down to the AHL...but I think it's a fairytale, if you think that experience is going to be transformative.

 

[cave troll]

Expand on that statement please

What's there to expand?
If some people think that with this roster we're not a candidate for lottery, then it's OK.
Also, if somebody thinks 2 more years of lottery won't do us any good, it's OK too.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Joshua Roy is on the way. I’m trying not to get too excited about him but he’s exceeded all expectations and put up great numbers at every level. Help is definitely on the way.

1 point in the last 5 games and a big minus player. I don't think he is getting an accelerated recall. I do think he will eventually be a Top-9 scoring winger.

 

[billy piton]

Cooley just took his first 11 steps (aka games) into pro hockey playing against players who are grown men.
Ofc he has problems in the line with scrubs, but coach puts him on PP and he delievers. There is no doubt about it.

Do you know how many games played Slaf in pro hockey on all levels (NHL, National Team, Liiga)? 153. More than 10 times more than Cooley.

yes, we should have drafted cooley&michkov to play with caufield so we can have smaller first line than one with cammy gomez and gionta.

who cares about midget cooley.

 

[McGees]

Add KK to the list…then learn to chill tf out lol.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I mean, you can "welp ok then" all you want, but i'm not sure how YOU can prove that Kotkaniemi's career would be different today had he spent more time in the AHL.

The onus here is on YOU to provide the burden of proof here.

From my perspective, Jesperi Kotkaniemi was drafted to be a top 6C and that's exactly what he is today. That is demonstrably evident.

Nah...Kotkaniemi at 23 years old is a MUCH better player than Danault was at the same age.

Not sure if you're being serious here.

Either way, to tie this back into Slafkovsky...I know everyone wants to act like the fact he hasn't spent X amount of games in the AHL is going to doom the rest of his career, but a guy like KK is evidence that that premise is entirely false.

What we see now, today during his formative years, isn't necessarily what we're going to see when he's 23-24.

So yeah, it's fine to want him to be sent down to the AHL...but I think it's a fairytale, if you think that experience is going to be transformative.

This is how it works in the real world:

Young player tries to make team out of camp.

If he is top 11-12 F or top-6 D he makes the team.

If he is 13th F or 7th D or worse, he is sent down until he is good enough to be top 11-12 F or top-6 D. Once he is good enough, whether initially or later, he gets a shot, usually on a lower line or D-pair until he proves he can move up.

The McDavids and Bedards who get top-6 roles instantly upon attaining the show are exceptions.

 

[SlafySZN]

Delete

 

[Mrb1p]

I mean, you can "welp ok then" all you want, but i'm not sure how YOU can prove that Kotkaniemi's career would be different today had he spent more time in the AHL.

The onus here is on YOU to provide the burden of proof here.

From my perspective, Jesperi Kotkaniemi was drafted to be a top 6C and that's exactly what he is today. That is demonstrably evident.

Nah...Kotkaniemi at 23 years old is a MUCH better player than Danault was at the same age.

Not sure if you're being serious here.

Either way, to tie this back into Slafkovsky...I know everyone wants to act like the fact he hasn't spent X amount of games in the AHL is going to doom the rest of his career, but a guy like KK is evidence that that premise is entirely false.

What we see now, today during his formative years, isn't necessarily what we're going to see when he's 23-24.

So yeah, it's fine to want him to be sent down to the AHL...but I think it's a fairytale, if you think that experience is going to be transformative.

No.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

You could argue that because the pace of play is faster, he would simplify his game to lower the mistakes and develop less complex part of his game (eg : automatically dumps the puck in the o-zone, instead of better reads for outlooks passes and keeping possesion a few seconds longer by protecting the puck well). I think there is a valid point that when you have difficulty playing at a certain pace with all your skillset you simplify your game and may not use some of the more difficult skills to use. Which could in return have an impact on your ability to use them in the future, because you always defer to the same kind of plays you are use to do.

This is exactly what I wanted to say.

 

[417]

This is how it works in the real world:

Young player tries to make team out of camp.

If he is top 11-12 F or top-6 D he makes the team.

If he is 13th F or 7th D or worse, he is sent down until he is good enough to be top 11-12 F or top-6 D. Once he is good enough, whether initially or later, he gets a shot, usually on a lower line or D-pair until he proves he can move up.

The McDavids and Bedards who get top-6 roles instantly upon attaining the show are exceptions.

I don't entirely disagree, I just don't quite see the point in making an 18-19 year old graduate, if you drafted him to be a top 6 forward, with the sole purpose of playing as the 10-11-12th forward.

I mean maybe initially its fine, but there has to be a plan to increase his responsibilities IF you've deemed he's good enough to be in the NHL.

No.

Compelling argument. Struggling to find a worthy rebuttal here.

 

[Mrb1p]

I don't entirely disagree, I just don't quite see the point in making an 18-19 year old graduate, if you drafted him to be a top 6 forward, with the sole purpose of playing as the 10-11-12th forward.

I mean maybe initially its fine, but there has to be a plan to increase his responsibilities IF you've deemed he's good enough to be in the NHL.


Compelling argument. Struggling to find a worthy rebuttal here.

We just disagree on fundamentals, weve both been here long enough that we both know we wont be convinced.

I also have made lenghty posts about this, clearly stating what I want from player development, it is not the bolded.

 

[417]

We just disagree on fundamentals, weve both been here long enough that we both know we wont be convinced.

I also have made lenghty posts about this, clearly stating what I want from player development, it is not the bolded.

Sure but I thought we were having a discussion.

But if your premise is that KK would be even better than the top 20 scorer he is today (granted through 12 games). I mean ok.

Maybe he’d be a top 5 player had he played 50 more AHL games. I’m not sure how anyone can prove that, but again, ok then.

 

[Mrb1p]

Sure but I thought we were having a discussion.

But if your premise is that KK would be even better than the top 20 scorer he is today (granted through 12 games). I mean ok.

Maybe he’d be a top 5 player had he played 50 more AHL games. I’m not sure how anyone can prove that, but again, ok then.

Hed be a different player than he is, the results wouldn't necessarily be different, though.

 

[417]

You could argue that because the pace of play is faster, he would simplify his game to lower the mistakes and develop less complex part of his game (eg : automatically dumps the puck in the o-zone, instead of better reads for outlooks passes and keeping possesion a few seconds longer by protecting the puck well). I think there is a valid point that when you have difficulty playing at a certain pace with all your skillset you simplify your game and may not use some of the more difficult skills to use. Which could in return have an impact on your ability to use them in the future, because you always defer to the same kind of plays you are use to do.

Is the analogy here that if you're an F1 driver and you're having difficulty on the circuit, driving in NASCAR for a few weeks will make you better prepared for your F1 races?

 

[cave troll]

yes, we should have drafted cooley&michkov to play with caufield so we can have smaller first line than one with cammy gomez and gionta.

who cares about midget cooley.

Here you are.
I was waiting for you !!!!!!!
Let's draft McCarron 2.0. in 2024. We need sizeeeeeeeeeee!!

And why should some small player play with CC? He is already centered by a C 1cm taller than Cooley.

 

[417]

Hed be a different player than he is, the results wouldn't necessarily be different, though.

Is this something you think applies to all players? Because if the AHL is that transformative, then it's a wonder all NHL teams don't send all of their prospects there, with all due respect.

 

[Mrb1p]

Is the analogy here that if you're an F1 driver and you're having difficulty on the circuit, driving in NASCAR for a few weeks will make you better prepared for your F1 races?

Thats a very good analogy for what Im saying. Youd kill yourself driving an F1 right away, or you probably could learn by driving it very, very slowly for a long time and then have a good last lap (for a non racer).

Do you believe a teenager would have a easier time as a first time F1 driver if he went through the normal stages of racing or is going from 250cc gokart not too big of a step?

 

[HabzSauce]

Well, at least we can agree that we both want him to succeed. He makes lots of positive little plays that are easy to miss. Sure he still shows growing pains, but that's to be expected. For example, everyone gushed over that nice pass for a goal by Cooley the other day. Well, I've seen Slaf make several of those passes only to have guys like Anderson flub them. Even though Cooley outpointed him that game, I thought Slaf was more engaged and played better overall. Cooley was largely invisible to the point at one point I was wondering if he had left the bench due to an injury, or something. Everything needs to be put in perspective and I wish some of us fans were more patient.

I don't understand the love for Cooley personally but that's just me. I don't see him being a game breaker whereas I do see that trait in slafkovsky. And Cooley is a smurf lol we have enough of those as is.

Slaf's gonna take time I agree. We absolutely need more patience. As long as he's improving even if it's just a little bit, but at some point I really do want to see him in the A. Play big minutes with less pressure could be great for finding his game and getting some confidence.

Like man I'm not worried at all about his IQ and skill. I like what I see there but he needs some confidence and jam to go with it. I think that's why he looks so unimpressive right now despite the improvements (at least to me). Looks more like a passenger than a hockey player.

 

[Mrb1p]

Is this something you think applies to all players? Because if the AHL is that transformative, then it's a wonder all NHL teams don't send all of their prospects there, with all due respect.

Yes, but some players are good enough to learn in the NHL and apply their skills. Bedard is one.

 

[billy piton]

Here you are.
I was waiting for you !!!!!!!
Let's draft McCarron 2.0. in 2024. We need sizeeeeeeeeeee!!

And why should some small player play with CC? He is already centered by a C 1cm taller than Cooley.

slaf is skilled, not just big. cooley is 20kg lighter than suzuki and time and time again it's proven that you can't win in the nhl with midgets only. i'll take slaf at 60pts over cooley at 80pts in their primes. plus, you never wanted cooley at the draft, but shane wright.

classic mmqb cave troll as always

 

[BaseballCoach]

I don't entirely disagree, I just don't quite see the point in making an 18-19 year old graduate, if you drafted him to be a top 6 forward, with the sole purpose of playing as the 10-11-12th forward.

I mean maybe initially its fine, but there has to be a plan to increase his responsibilities IF you've deemed he's good enough to be in the NHL.

Of course. Most stars began on the 3rd or even 4th line and moved up.

Suzuki started on the fourth line, Lafleur on the third; Lecavalier also the third, Thornton the 4th. I could go on and on, there are hundreds of examples, and few start on a top 2 lone or 1st defence pair.

But yes, the plan is to increase responsibility after the player shows progress.

 

[DarcyWakaluk]

slaf is skilled, not just big. cooley is 20kg lighter than suzuki and time and time again it's proven that you can't win in the nhl with midgets only. i'll take slaf at 60pts over cooley at 80pts in their primes. plus, you never wanted cooley at the draft, but shane wright.

classic mmqb cave troll as always

the thing is, i dont think Slaf will ever be a 60pts player...he doesn't have the skillset to be a 60 pts player.

I'm thinking is ceiling is something more like Lawson Crowse...

 

[417]

Thats a very good analogy for what Im saying. Youd kill yourself driving an F1 right away, or you probably could learn by driving it very, very slowly for a long time and then have a good last lap (for a non racer).

Do you believe a teenager would have a easier time as a first time F1 driver if he went through the normal stages of racing or is going from 250cc gokart not too big of a step?

Well I would assume if Ferrari or Renault decided to name someone a driver at 18, they didn't pick him up at the local grocery store.

Of course there has to be a base there, i’m not suggesting just any 18 year old can step into the NHL.

But I don’t think Slaf nor KK looked like complete amateurs either.

Yes, but some players are good enough to learn in the NHL and apply their skills. Bedard is one.

So also safe to assume you think Nick Suzuki, Kaiden Guhle and Cole Caufield would be much better today had they spent some time in the NHL?

 

[417]

Of course. Most stars began on the 3rd or even 4th line and moved up.

Suzuki started on the fourth line, Lafleur on the third; Lecavalier also the third, Thornton the 4th. I could go on and on, there are hundreds of examples, and few start on a top 2 lone or 1st defence pair.

But yes, the plan is to increase responsibility after the player shows progress.

Suzuki had a cup of coffee on the 4th line

Lafleur is from a different era, can't compare.

Lecavalier was playing over 19 mins a game as soon as year 2.

The key point is increasing responsibility…not stagnating.

 

[DAChampion]

So also safe to assume you think Nick Suzuki, Kaiden Guhle and Cole Caufield would be much better today had they spent some time in the NHL?

They didn't play in the NHL at age 18.