Player Discussion JT Miller Thread

[IComeInPeace]

friedman basically said the canucks would have to retain or take back a ton of money to move miller and i don't think either are palatable to canucks management. he's here for the long term

Friedman:

”…just forget the contract for a second. He’s a good player. He’s had a really weird year, but that whole team has had a weird year, but he’s a really good player.“

”I think last year there were some teams that asked about him….I think there are teams out there that like the player…but he’s got the contract and at the very least I think what teams are going to ask the Canucks is ‘what are you willing to do here, if anything?’ so we will find out the answer.”

That is Friedman’s entire quote on JTM from the podcast you reference.
“what are you willing to do here, if anything?” seems far less dramatic than “the canucks would have to retain or take back a ton of money to move miller”, no?

 

[MS]

Friedman:

”…just forget the contract for a second. He’s a good player. He’s had a really weird year, but that whole team has had a weird year, but he’s a really good player.“

”I think last year there were some teams that asked about him….I think there are teams out there that like the player…but he’s got the contract and at the very least I think what teams are going to ask the Canucks is ‘what are you willing to do here, if anything?’ so we will find out the answer.”

That is Friedman’s entire quote on JTM from the podcast you reference.
“what are you willing to do here, if anything?” seems far less dramatic than “the canucks would have to retain or take back a ton of money to move miller”, no?

JT Miller would be getting pretty much the same deal we gave him in UFA this summer and it should be pretty obvious that we wouldn't be doing some sort of big retain in a Miller trade.

But I highly doubt a Miller trade happens.

 

[IComeInPeace]

JT Miller would be getting pretty much the same deal we gave him in UFA this summer and it should be pretty obvious that we wouldn't be doing some sort of big retain in a Miller trade.

But I highly doubt a Miller trade happens.

Yep…his deal may or may not not be right for our team at this time, but this is definitely not any type of huge overpay.

…by the end of this summer, when the cap goes up, and GM‘s start doing crazy shit again, it will probably look like a pretty decent deal.

 

[sting101]

When has a team ever flipped on a signing like this. He's not going anywhere

I'm probably in the minority here but i like Miller. Obviously some of the on ice antics and term of his contract are egregious but i just love his passion and warrior mentality

It's kinda weird and i certainly felt wrong about what i had said last year that Miller was a far better player than Horvat and if they wanted to compete they were better with him and Pettersson down the middle but im happy to see since the New Year he has 24pts in 21 games and has been good at C since Bo left.

Miller after 99pts and over PPG as a Canuck took 8 million. Horvat after 2/3rds of a career year and a 64pt pace in the same duration was telling Canucks management to show me the money to the tune of 8-8.5

I liked Horvat more this year after it looked like Miller had taken the money and put his feet up and was playing bad defense and we'll see how this goes but if things revert to the larger sample size and Pettersson takes a big leadership role and moving out Bo allowed EP40 to come out from the shadows and drive the 2 way effort and culture of this team going forward than it was for the better.

On Miller his playmaking is way more sustainable as him and Horvat age. Even though he's older it's only 2 years. It's gonna be interesting who provides better value for their contracts. I still have my money on Miller i just dont think Bo's game is tailored to age well.

 

[mriswith]

I think Miller is going to be good value for the next 3 years, after that who knows, and that's why I want to trade him now so we aren't setting a timer on the Petey/Hughes core for the sake of being more competitive 1-3 years from now at the cost of every year after.

It's still puzzling to me why other GM's haven't fought harder for him. I'd have killed to add a player like Miller to the 2009-2012 Canucks but the interest around the league has seemed lackluster.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Team needs JT. You can't just have EP as your only scoring threat. The offense would look like the D. Even if we get a high end C in this draft, it will take time before they can take on the role. Just as JT played the hybrid C with EP in his 2nd season.

Plenty of guys in their mid 30's still very productive, JT could definitely add to that list. It's a mistake to assume everyone will crash after 30, and already cost us Tanev. We haven't been able to replace him since, same would happen if we moved JT.

 

[mriswith]

Team needs JT. You can't just have EP as your only scoring threat. The offense would look like the D. Even if we get a high end C in this draft, it will take time before they can take on the role. Just as JT played the hybrid C with EP in his 2nd season.

Plenty of guys in their mid 30's still very productive, JT could definitely add to that list. It's a mistake to assume everyone will crash after 30, and already cost us Tanev. We haven't been able to replace him since, same would happen if we moved JT.

If he'd signed a 4 year deal like Tanev I wouldn't say a thing but he's signed until 2030 and turns 30 in a few weeks.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

If he'd signed a 4 year deal like Tanev I wouldn't say a thing but he's signed until 2030 and turns 30 in a few weeks.

Yea well that's just not a realistic term for such a player. He has a lot of good hockey left I think, and a lot can happen over the next few years. Can definitely see a 29 year old EP & Hughes setting up a 34 yo JT in the conference finals.

 

[RandV]

The way I look at it, even if you're rebuilding you can't go with Dries or Aman as your 2nd line center. That will just stagnate any wingers that can't play with Pettersson. So even if we do/can trade him to get out of the contract it likely won't be long till we need to replace him and you're not likely stepping into a better situation. In an ideal world with no Miller we draft a Matty Beniers this draft who can step in for 2024, but if we can get a Beniers with Miller then Miller just slides to the wing.

 

[me2]

JT Miller would be getting pretty much the same deal we gave him in UFA this summer and it should be pretty obvious that we wouldn't be doing some sort of big retain in a Miller trade.

But I highly doubt a Miller trade happens.

Yup, he'd get $8m as a UFA but he's also got a frighteningly long contract that goes deep and is off-putting as a trade. It's that disconnect in the brain that happens between UFAs and what a team thinks about existing contacts in trades.

"Free asset" and "just use the cap space to get better now" clouds GMs brains during UFA season. Spending rush, dopamine rush. Trades they tend to be more calculated, you have to give something up, manoeuvre cap, way more thinking time for risk management.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

JT Miller would be getting pretty much the same deal we gave him in UFA this summer and it should be pretty obvious that we wouldn't be doing some sort of big retain in a Miller trade.

But I highly doubt a Miller trade happens.

Only takes 1 gm.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I would probably trade Miller for Kotkaniemi straight up just to get rid of the contract. Keep Kotkaniemi around as long as the team is in their rebuild, and then buy him out in the future when you need the cap space (his buyout cap hit is under $1M per season).

 

[VanJack]

It seems to me that with Miller, his signing followed by this season's implosion, might have triggered something in the owner's box.

Signing the 29-year-old Miller to a seven-year extension is something Benning would have done. But this season only underscored the folly of a lottery team signing veterans to expensive, long term deals.

Let's face it. Miller won't be part of any Canuck team that competes for anything. He should have been dealt as part of the rebuild going forward.

The Canucks seem now to be in at least a partial 'tear-down' mode. Has ownership finally run up the white flag?

 

[gringo]

I would probably trade Miller for Kotkaniemi straight up just to get rid of the contract. Keep Kotkaniemi around as long as the team is in their rebuild, and then buy him out in the future when you need the cap space (his buyout cap hit is under $1M per season).

That’s how you really f*** everyone up- acquire some loser with an unearned contract way bigger than he deserves

 

[y2kcanucks]

That’s how you really f*** everyone up- acquire some loser with an unearned contract way bigger than he deserves

That’s shortsighted.

A Kotkaniemi buyout comes with a cap hit < $1M per season. You do the deal to get out of the Miller contract that never should have been signed. The buyout cap hit is the cost of being stupid back in September. I would do the trade and wait it out as long as possible until the Canucks need that cap space, and then do the buyout.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Friedman:

”…just forget the contract for a second. He’s a good player. He’s had a really weird year, but that whole team has had a weird year, but he’s a really good player.“

”I think last year there were some teams that asked about him….I think there are teams out there that like the player…but he’s got the contract and at the very least I think what teams are going to ask the Canucks is ‘what are you willing to do here, if anything?’ so we will find out the answer.”

That is Friedman’s entire quote on JTM from the podcast you reference.
“what are you willing to do here, if anything?” seems far less dramatic than “the canucks would have to retain or take back a ton of money to move miller”, no?

i think it is code for bargain hunters are checking in to see if they can steal him.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Trading JT Miller for peanuts means that there's probably zero successful pathways for this team to reasonably compete in 2-3 years.

You'll probably have to trade Petey and Hughes at that point as well... just something to consider.

 

[vancityluongo]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Diogenes92]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

Don't get my hopes up...

Maybe Carolina?

 

[credulous]

Trading JT Miller for peanuts means that there's probably zero successful pathways for this team to reasonably compete in 2-3 years.

You'll probably have to trade Petey and Hughes at that point as well... just something to consider.

nah. miller isn't critical here. if they can draft a center with their pick and they can step in and be as productive as beniers or wyatt johnston or cole sillinger then you can use miller's 8 mil to actually put together a third line and sign some penalty killers

the defense will still be a disaster but miller isn't helping there anyways

 

[JohnHodgson]

nah. miller isn't critical here. if they can draft a center with their pick and they can step in and be as productive as beniers or wyatt johnston or cole sillinger then you can use miller's 8 mil to actually put together a third line and sign some penalty killers

the defense will still be a disaster but miller isn't helping there anyways

Miller playing as a 2C eating 20 minutes a night isn't critical?

Where can we magically find a 2C to play 20 minutes a night? Even if we do it through the draft, it'll take 2-3 years before someone from this draft could likely play at that level.

Don't get my hopes up...

Maybe Carolina?

Carolina has ALWAYS made sense. They should have went hard after Horvat and didn't... they better go after Miller now.

1st + KK + B prospect for Miller. Let's get it done.

 

[credulous]

Don't get my hopes up...

Maybe Carolina?

it pretty much has to be carolina. pacioretty and staal are expiring so carolina can easily take on miller's deal

vegas would have to figure out how to get karlsson or martinez off their books and that still wouldn't be enough for them to carry miller past this year

edmonton i guess could send back campbell and puljujarvi but why would vancouver want to do that?

toronto has no hope of making cap space for miller either at the deadline or going forward

are there any other buyers? outside chance of los angeles maybe?

 

[TruGr1t]

Trading JT Miller for peanuts means that there's probably zero successful pathways for this team to reasonably compete in 2-3 years.

You'll probably have to trade Petey and Hughes at that point as well... just something to consider.

Keeping Miller pretty much guarantees you’re not reasonably competitive for 2-3 years.

 

[credulous]

Miller playing as a 2C eating 20 minutes a night isn't critical?

Where can we magically find a 2C to play 20 minutes a night? Even if we do it through the draft, it'll take 2-3 years before someone from this draft could likely play at that level.

i just gave you 3 players who were drafted less than 2 years ago who could replace miller. you don't think smith or stenberg or moore could be that player two years from now?

 

[Hodgy]

it pretty much has to be carolina. pacioretty and staal are expiring so carolina can easily take on miller's deal

vegas would have to figure out how to get karlsson or martinez off their books and that still wouldn't be enough for them to carry miller past this year

edmonton i guess could send back campbell and puljujarvi but why would vancouver want to do that?

toronto has no hope of making cap space for miller either at the deadline or going forward

are there any other buyers? outside chance of los angeles maybe?

You are forgetting about “undesirable” mediocre teams like Ottawa or Winnipeg who may be interested in acquiring someone like Miller.