Player Discussion JT Miller Thread

[racerjoe]

There is no trend to be found either way then. As in you cannot read anything at all in to the 5 games under Tocchet. If you are willing to remove 40% of the sample as "outlier games." In a 5 game sample size... Why even bother replying?


You are just overemphasizing his last years complete outlier of a season.

He has NEVER been a good center outside of last year. And now we have another 40 games after said season where he is not a good center.

He is on pace for 74 points. That is 4 points above what I expected before the season started.

May I ask way? He was a PPG player for us for pretty much his entire time with us. I have agreed forever that last year was an outlier year, but I have also said I am pretty sure he is a PPG player.

 

[arttk]

May I ask way? He was a PPG player for us for pretty much his entire time with us. I have agreed forever that last year was an outlier year, but I have also said I am pretty sure he is a PPG player.

Because retool apologists think Miller could be a solution and he’s against a retool so therefore he has to argue that Miller sucks and is not a top6 center lol. Not sure why one would need to take the extreme side of that argument but I guess Benning did break some folks.

 

[MS]

He is now playable at C.

His line doesnt generate anything 5on5 still but now that he plays 8mins less per game he isnt gassed.

Call it hysteria all you like. Miller is not a top6 center.

This is just absolutely ridiculous. And yes, hysteria.

JT Miller is at worst a quality 1B center. He finished 8th in NHL scoring last year playing C and driving big positive goal differentials.

He was absolutely f***ing shit to start this season, and his play is now recovering toward previous levels. He isn't going to score 99 points, but he's a 75-85 point player.

And he played 22:54 last night, for the record. And was one of the best players on the ice.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Because retool apologists think Miller could be a solution and he’s against a retool so therefore he has to argue that Miller sucks and is not a top6 center lol. Not sure why one would need to take the extreme side of that argument but I guess Benning did break some folks.

I’m also against a retool but I think Miller is generally an excellent player. The first 40 games was f***ing strange. Seems like the old Miller again hopefully

This is just absolutely ridiculous. And yes, hysteria.

JT Miller is at worst a quality 1B center. He finished 8th in NHL scoring last year playing C and driving big positive goal differentials.

He was absolutely f***ing shit to start this season, and his play is now recovering toward previous levels. He isn't going to score 99 points, but he's a 75-85 point player.

And he played 22:54 last night, for the record. And was one of the best players on the ice.

I loved the fist bump after Miller blocked the shot at the end of the game. Also, the post game players comments were very encouraging. Hughes praised Miller and Miller and EP gave each other props. Good to see some optimism and better spirits out of the locker room.

They are relieved Bo is finally gone and a new chapter can begin.

 

[MS]

I’m also against a retool but I think Miller is generally an excellent player. The first 40 games was f***ing strange. Seems like the old Miller again hopefully


I loved the fist bump after Miller blocked the shot at the end of the game. Also, the post game players comments were very encouraging. Hughes praised Miller and Miller and EP gave each other props. Good to see some optimism and better spirits out of the locker room.

They are relieved Bo is finally gone and a new chapter can begin.

The comments that Horvat was a problem here are equally ridiculous to the comments that JT Miller is something akin to Satan.

 

[DonnyNucker]

The comments that Horvat was a problem here are equally ridiculous to the comments that JT Miller is something akin to Satan.

Horvat was a problem in the sense that the culture needed a change. He isn’t a bad dude and he isn’t disliked by teammates. The Miller hate has gotten hilariously. It’s also sad to an extent. This is a guy that generally plays hard, is in his prime and just commited the rest of his career to the City despite being from the midwest.

I’m always embarrassed by our fanbase so nothing has changed

 

[MS]

Horvat was a problem in the sense that the culture needed a change. He isn’t a bad dude and he isn’t disliked by teammates. The Miller hate has gotten hilariously. It’s also sad to an extent. This is a guy that generally plays hard, is in his prime and just commited the rest of his career to the City despite being from the midwest.

I’m always embarrassed by our fanbase so nothing has changed

I don't think the culture is any more on Horvat than any other player. I hate how the captaincy is a target for fans in this way.

The problems here this year have been :

1) generationally terrible goaltending.
2) bad coaching/lack of a quality defensive system.
3) terrible 2nd defensive pairing.
4) abysmal PK, which is a result of all of the above.

The problem wasn't Horvat, and outside of an abysmal October, it isn't Miller. And the hate on Miller has just gotten absurd.

 

[strattonius]

You are just overemphasizing his last years complete outlier of a season.

He has NEVER been a good center outside of last year. And now we have another 40 games after said season where he is not a good center.

He is on pace for 74 points. That is 4 points above what I expected before the season started.

I didn't even bring last season up. It was definitely a career year. I don't think he'll ever hit 99 pts again. I said he's a point per game player, which is irrefutable. And you are saying he's not a top 6 C. Perhaps you don't understand the gap between a point per game player and a top 6 C but I'll spare you the research - it's an enormous gap!

 

[MS]

I didn't even bring last season up. It was definitely a career year. I don't think he'll ever hit 99 pts again. I said he's a point per game player, which is irrefutable. And you are saying he's not a top 6 C. Perhaps you don't understand the gap between a point per game player and a top 6 C but I'll spare you the research - it's an enormous gap!

Guys like Dylan Strome, Vincent Trocheck, JT Compher, Ryan Hartman, Yanni Gourde are #2Cs for NHL playoff teams right now. It's an absurd statement that JT Miller isn't at/above that level of player.

 

[DonnyNucker]

I don't think the culture is any more on Horvat than any other player. I hate how the captaincy is a target for fans in this way.

The problems here this year have been :

1) generationally terrible goaltending.
2) bad coaching/lack of a quality defensive system.
3) terrible 2nd defensive pairing.
4) abysmal PK, which is a result of all of the above.

The problem wasn't Horvat, and outside of an abysmal October, it isn't Miller. And the hate on Miller has just gotten absurd.

I’ll just leave it at I’ve heard some things. Bo is gone so no need to rehash old arguments that I can’t even prove to strangers on the internet. Agree with the rest of your post and certainly the importance of the captain. Hope they don’t rush to naming a new one

 

[strattonius]

Guys like Dylan Strome, Vincent Trocheck, JT Compher, Ryan Hartman, Yanni Gourde are #2Cs for NHL playoff teams right now. It's an absurd statement that JT Miller isn't at/above that level of player.

But did you see Miller throw a hissy fit on the bench!? Clearly a 3C here.

 

[arttk]

I didn't even bring last season up. It was definitely a career year. I don't think he'll ever hit 99 pts again. I said he's a point per game player, which is irrefutable. And you are saying he's not a top 6 C. Perhaps you don't understand the gap between a point per game player and a top 6 C but I'll spare you the research - it's an enormous gap!

Miller outscored Point in 2 out of the last 4 seasons and in one of those seasons Point outscored Miller by 2 points and played 3 more games.

To suggest Miller is not a top6 guy is like crazy. Just tagging on your reply, not saying you are the one arguing it

I don't think the culture is any more on Horvat than any other player. I hate how the captaincy is a target for fans in this way.

The problems here this year have been :

1) generationally terrible goaltending.
2) bad coaching/lack of a quality defensive system.
3) terrible 2nd defensive pairing.
4) abysmal PK, which is a result of all of the above.

The problem wasn't Horvat, and outside of an abysmal October, it isn't Miller. And the hate on Miller has just gotten absurd.

I don’t think Horvat is the problem, i just feel his leadership is overrated. And if we want a culture change, changing the captain is the most efficient way to get there.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Guys like Dylan Strome, Vincent Trocheck, JT Compher, Ryan Hartman, Yanni Gourde are #2Cs for NHL playoff teams right now. It's an absurd statement that JT Miller isn't at/above that level of player.

It seems personal for this poster when it comes to Miller. Can’t really explain it other than maybe he has been broken by Benning

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Many will say it was the coaching change, or the departure of Bo, both of which is bs. They will ignore that JT has been good for a while now (about 4-5 years)

His 1st dozen games or so, he had cement legs, and was scored on a lot (infront of the worst goaltending performance in the league I might add) then later had a 10-12 game stretch of zero franks given. Between that, him and Bo made a great line. Really, he's had 25 poor games by his standards this season, amidst being the cores top producer since arrival.

 

[Hit the post]

Miller outscored Point in 2 out of the last 4 seasons and in one of those seasons Point outscored Miller by 2 points and played 3 more games.

To suggest Miller is not a top6 guy is like crazy. Just tagging on your reply, not saying you are the one arguing it


I don’t think Horvat is the problem, i just feel his leadership is overrated. And if we want a culture change, changing the captain is the most efficient way to get there.

Napoleon lost at Waterloo. Lee lost at Gettysburg. Hannibal at the Battle of Zama. Three other overrated "leaders".

That said, I can think of several other players on the team I'd put the "C" on other than that legit 1st line forward.

 

[bandwagonesque]

I don't think Miller is akin to Satan, but I do get the impression about a quarter of his teammates see where he's coming from and most of the rest don't respect him or enjoy his presence. He's like the Josh Donaldson of the NHL.

 

[Ninjadude]

Just wonder if Miller was traded last year, what would he command (and be paid) in the open market. I dont see him being any cheaper vs what the canucks got him for.

At the same time, it seems his trade value went waaaaay down as soon as he signed that contract. Perhaps management thought they could trade him even with a new contract?

 

[arttk]

Napoleon lost at Waterloo. Lee lost at Gettysburg. Hannibal at the Battle of Zama. Three other overrated "leaders".

That said, I can think of several other players on the team I'd put the "C" on other than that legit 1st line forward.

that's a weird analogy considering war generals are more tacticians. you win war/battles with tactics and logistics. I don't think troops fight 50% better because <general> was so motivating, especially when it coems to warfare that involves some kind of gunpowder.

I don't think the team was losing because of Bo but it's undeniable that the team had a poor culture and habits. If you want a change, a shock to the system, you take the person that is "responsible" for it.

 

[Hit the post]

that's a weird analogy considering war generals are more tacticians. you win war/battles with tactics and logistics. I don't think troops fight 50% better because <general> was so motivating, especially when it coems to warfare that involves some kind of gunpowder.

I don't think the team was losing because of Bo but it's undeniable that the team had a poor culture and habits. If you want a change, a shock to the system, you take the person that is "responsible" for it.

I'd say it's more a case of a poorly constructed team (of which Alvin has to take some of the blame here; he was dealt a bad hand by Benning but I think he's played that hand badly thus far).

 

[arttk]

I'd say it's more a case of a poorly constructed team (of which Alvin has to take some of the blame here; he was dealt a bad hand by Benning but I think he's played that hand badly thus far).

Yeah it is a poorly constructed team but the culture has been like that for years.

 

[Tables of Stats]

There is no trend to be found either way then. As in you cannot read anything at all in to the 5 games under Tocchet. If you are willing to remove 40% of the sample as "outlier games." In a 5 game sample size... Why even bother replying?

I was hoping you'd be able to defend your claim or show that Miller specifically got singled out for reduced even strength TOI, or really do anything beyond pointing out that two games worth of low 5-on-5 TOI happened.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

This is just absolutely ridiculous. And yes, hysteria.

JT Miller is at worst a quality 1B center. He finished 8th in NHL scoring last year playing C and driving big positive goal differentials.

That is a wild f***in thing to say.

You can hold that idea sure, but be aware that the contrary opinnion isnt "absolutley ridiciulous."

Your sample size is under 82 games. This same line of thinking led down the path of your absolutely horrific EP40 take last year.

He was absolutely f***ing shit to start this season, and his play is now recovering toward previous levels. He isn't going to score 99 points, but he's a 75-85 point player.

And he played 22:54 last night, for the record. And was one of the best players on the ice.

Yes his minutes are up.
He was playing 10 mins 5on5, down ~33% for the first two games of Tocchets tenure.

Played 1 minute vs the Horvat Barzal line. Now they are playing him against bottom 6ers and he is holding his own defensively while not generating anything offensively.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I was hoping you'd be able to defend your claim or show that Miller specifically got singled out for reduced even strength TOI, or really do anything beyond pointing out that two games worth of low 5-on-5 TOI happened.

Okay.

Sorry for my huge mistake for reading his ice time to have taken a 8min drop overall.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I didn't even bring last season up. It was definitely a career year. I don't think he'll ever hit 99 pts again. I said he's a point per game player, which is irrefutable. And you are saying he's not a top 6 C. Perhaps you don't understand the gap between a point per game player and a top 6 C but I'll spare you the research - it's an enormous gap!

Oh yeah.

He has generated those points on the PP playing wing.

Brock Boeser is outscoring Miller 5on5 with 8 fewer games, less ice time and playing with Sheldon Dries and a revolving door at the other wing.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

May I ask way? He was a PPG player for us for pretty much his entire time with us. I have agreed forever that last year was an outlier year, but I have also said I am pretty sure he is a PPG player.

He has been a point per game player for us ½ of his seasons with us.