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Player Discussion JT Miller Thread

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Vector said:
While I agree, it’s weird that he insists a 26 game sample size is large enough to make any statistical proclamations, going forward, on a guy that played C well enough last season.
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“Played well enough” or racked up points in a team that had a 2% chance at the playoffs for 50+ games?

It was obvious the other teams around the league didn’t see this guy as a C.


His game at “C” and at wing is heavily freelanced. It’s good for him, and likely why he’s happy to be here but it’s not good for the team.


It’ll be even worse when there isn’t a Horvat to actually take the matchup shifts.



There was so much noise in the Bruce there it is sample, that it shouldn’t get the weighting many here wanted it to have.
 
Vector said:
While I agree, it’s weird that he insists a 26 game sample size is large enough to make any statistical proclamations, going forward, on a guy that played C well enough last season.
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Yeah, it is definitely a strong conclusion given he’s only been tracking this season.

That said, Miller’s xGF/corsi the last two seasons (20/21 and 21/22) look almost as bad outside of the ~25 games he played with Garland, who by Charron’s numbers is by far the strongest winger on the team at getting the puck out of the zone.
Vector said:
Also, as per the earlier discussion here and in other threads, trade retention is over contract not player. If Miller were traded with retention, it would only apply to his current contract and not carry over into his extension. I looked into it and ask a couple of people who know (Puckpedia bring one of them).
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Having read the CBA, I’m not sure this is cut and dried. I think that is the likely read but it is not clearly set out and the NHL has done funny things in the past.
 
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4Twenty said:
“Played well enough” or racked up points in a team that had a 2% chance at the playoffs for 50+ games?

It was obvious the other teams around the league didn’t see this guy as a C.


His game at “C” and at wing is heavily freelanced. It’s good for him, and likely why he’s happy to be here but it’s not good for the team.


It’ll be even worse when there isn’t a Horvat to actually take the matchup shifts.



There was so much noise in the Bruce there it is sample, that it shouldn’t get the weighting many here wanted it to have.
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I'll be blunt. I don't like JT Miller. I don't like the way he plays the game and, from what I can tell, I don't like his personality. He's the posterboy for inconsistency; has been his entire career. For the most part, I mostly kept quiet last season because I don't like to shout in threads while everyone is having a good time. It's not that he takes games off, goes into bad streaks, or has atrocious body language but rather he'll completely give up on a play during a shift only to reengage and try to create something. It's not even a shift to shift thing but moment to moment. It's frustrating for his linemates because he's so unpredictable and terrible for the development of any young players that end up on a line with him. It's a big reason why he's held back from being a centre. Ray Ferraro had a good interview about this, specifically actually, and how later in his career he got shifted to wing and how much easier it was. Straight line, back and forth, very simple. While as a centre you need to constantly be engaged; reading the play and covering. Last year, regardless of the situation, he was more consistently into the play. Before that, he was able to play the C/W tweener role pretty well.

I seriously doubt there will be any consideration to trading him before his extension kicks in. So now it's either finding a way to maximize his strengths by working around it or getting a coach who can finally break through to him that the way he plays hockey is fundamentally detrimental to the entire team.
 
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Signing Miller to an 8M contract was dumb, stupid and bad judgment. End of story. Now the Canucks are boat anchored with this ridiculous contract. Just pick any team and slot his contract in, does it work? Make sense for any team? Would any team even trade for Miller 1 for 1? No! But Vancouver signed this guy.

Will it ever end?
 
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The Miller signing doesn't make any sense. Sure, he had 99 points last year, BUT he's 29 going on 30. What are the odds that he does that again? It would seem more likely than not that this 99-point season was a peak season. That alone makes a 7-year term questionable. Add to that he is questionable defensively, but more importantly, he can be a turnover machine. When things aren't going well, you notice him pouting.

They also knew that Horvat's contract was going to expire. A player who is younger, better defensively, more consistent, and the team captain. Not to mention someone who the Canucks drafted and had in the organization since day one.

Whereas Miller bounced from the Rangers to the Lightning to the Canucks. So to prioritize Miller over Horvat doesn't make sense on several levels. Especially tying the team down with a likely anchor contract. The last thing the organization needed.
 
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Dr Black said:
The Miller signing doesn't make any sense. Sure, he had 99 points last year, BUT he's 29 going on 30. What are the odds that he does that again? It would seem more likely than not that this 99-point season was a peak season. That alone makes a 7-year term questionable. Add to that he is questionable defensively, but more importantly, he can be a turnover machine. When things aren't going well, you notice him pouting.

They also knew that Horvat's contract was going to expire. A player who is younger, better defensively, more consistent, and the team captain. Not to mention someone who the Canucks drafted and had in the organization since day one.

Whereas Miller bounced from the Rangers to the Lightning to the Canucks. So to prioritize Miller over Horvat doesn't make sense on several levels. Especially tying the team down with a likely anchor contract. The last thing the organization needed.
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Miller wasn't really prioritized over Bo, nor did he sign for 99 point $. If anyone is chosen over Bo, it's previous deals that the team chooses not to move. Guys like Brock, Garland etc. Also his raise wouldn't be that much, it's not like you have to find room for the whole 7+milly, over 5 of it is already accounted for.

Bo is only more consistent, because he hasn't had the highs, so not really a compliment. His likely career year, is also coming with JT as his winger. I would agree the JT signing makes less sense if Bo is traded, as you've taken one chance forward, and then another back.

There's also of course the scenario where Bo doesn't want to sign, for any number.
 
I don't think I would say they are choosing anyone over anyone at this point. If we should have signed miller or not is a debate, and one I would say we should not have done, but that contract is not bad for a player of his caliber. What it sounds like Bo wants would be a bad contract and that should be prioritized to stay away from.
 
racerjoe said:
I don't think I would say they are choosing anyone over anyone at this point. If we should have signed miller or not is a debate, and one I would say we should not have done, but that contract is not bad for a player of his caliber. What it sounds like Bo wants would be a bad contract and that should be prioritized to stay away from.
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JT Miller: Elite offensive player.

 
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One thing that shocks me and gets like no play is how J.T. Miller went from an elite face off guy to like 46% in the space of 3 seasons. Like, what the hell happened?
 
Chrysalis99 said:
Signing Miller to an 8M contract was dumb, stupid and bad judgment. End of story. Now the Canucks are boat anchored with this ridiculous contract. Just pick any team and slot his contract in, does it work? Make sense for any team? Would any team even trade for Miller 1 for 1? No! But Vancouver signed this guy.

Will it ever end?
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Can't argue with any of this. It's obvious they had enough money to sign either Miller or Horvat, not both.....so they decided to go with a soon-to-be 30 player on an eight year deal. Why?

I still think the owner had something to do with it. I suppose there's still a chance they could trade Miller instead of Horvat, but they'd have to keep throwing draft picks on to the pile for any team to take on that contract. The whole thing was baffling,. really.
 
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VanJack said:
Can't argue with any of this. It's obvious they had enough money to sign either Miller or Horvat, not both.....so they decided to go with a soon-to-be 30 player on an eight year deal. Why?

I still think the owner had something to do with it. I suppose there's still a chance they could trade Miller instead of Horvat, but they'd have to keep throwing draft picks on to the pile for any team to take on that contract. The whole thing was baffling,. really.
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Idk, Boeser makes as much or almost as much as Bo should make, I don't really understand the Miller vs Bo line of reasoning. Couldn't it also be Boeser, or Mikheyev/Pearson or Garland/Pearson if we move off the free agent signing benchmark?

I wish we traded both and would still trade both.
 
VanJack said:
Can't argue with any of this. It's obvious they had enough money to sign either Miller or Horvat, not both.....so they decided to go with a soon-to-be 30 player on an eight year deal. Why?

I still think the owner had something to do with it. I suppose there's still a chance they could trade Miller instead of Horvat, but they'd have to keep throwing draft picks on to the pile for any team to take on that contract. The whole thing was baffling,. really.
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It is a tantalizing scenario isn't it. Not knowing the GM at all well I can only guess that it's either a) FAQ meddling and/or even overriding the GM or b) Horvat has had enough of this shitshow and would like to fatten his wallet and maybe even win something. I suspect the former but doubt the latter.
 
I don’t know which is more daunting: the rest of OEL’s current deal, or Miller’s upcoming one. I cannot stand the thought of following this player until 2030. He’s beyond unlikable.
 
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Wandering Cynic said:
Miller's deal is easily more daunting. OEL only has 4 years left after this season. They'll likely buy him out after next season.
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I’m crediting Miller with being a top six forward for like 4 of those years as a floor. OEL is a third pairing D as we speak, on the way down further, generously speaking. I’m not disagreeing with you. Just a little context behind the question.
 
Wandering Cynic said:
Miller's deal is easily more daunting. OEL only has 4 years left after this season. They'll likely buy him out after next season.
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Agreed, that deal in context is every bit as bad as anything Benning ever did in my eyes. Made even worse by the fact they played hardball on the contract all summer and then completed folded, great negotiating.

Not even considering Miller is a giant petulant child, and is likely depressed his value even further by looking like an entitled locker room cancer all year.

If he’s not in the same league of unmovable contracts as OEL he’ll be there very shortly.
 
This guy is a clown. You can just tell by his attitude on so many different occasions that he is just toxic as a teammate. Management better wake up here and quick, time is running out with trade availability.
 
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Serious question can we get Jonathan Tonathan some help in dealing with the angries? I think he needs to talk to somebody.
 
TruGr1t said:
Agreed, that deal in context is every bit as bad as anything Benning ever did in my eyes. Made even worse by the fact they played hardball on the contract all summer and then completed folded, great negotiating.

Not even considering Miller is a giant petulant child, and is likely depressed his value even further by looking like an entitled locker room cancer all year.

If he’s not in the same league of unmovable contracts as OEL he’ll be there very shortly.
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At least there is hope OEL LTIRs at some point due to his injuries and wear and tear. Miller looks like he can play it out so far.
 
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