Prospect Info: Joshua Roy Part 2

[Lafleurs Guy]

Just got an assist in the prospects game.

 

[Matthew McConaughay]

Nice game today for Wawa, one goal and one assist.

 

[DAChampion]

 

[Jaynki]

I think the Q is just a garbage league currently and Roy's hype will fade quickly. I also don't see any world in which Dumais become a good NHLer despite his talent at the junior level. There was that infographic breakdown that Columbus or one of their affiliates shared on twitter that showed Dumais' production by opponent, and he was putting up like 240% more points against non-playoff teams than he was playoff teams and was pretty bad in the playoffs for them.

Back to Roy, I didn't watch the game but he should be working with a skating coach full-time if he wants to make the NHL. Smart, effective players don't make the NHL if they can't keep up with the play. His talent level isn't even undeniable like Nick Suzuki where he reads the play at an elite level and can overcome his deficiencies.

Agree. To me its simply about the tools.

I know people gives a lot of importance to point production and even predictive models are solely based on that.

But there is just so many players, like indeed Dumais, Roy, Kidney, Farrell. These guys are good against teenager but when they come into the extremely contingented NHL with prime athlete they don't have what it takes to cut it. The exact polar opposite of DY Brady Tkachuk. The ceiling appeared low because of hie dubious NCAA production, but the tools where sky high, a rare package.

Roy has a good shot and he position himself well but i don't see how he will be able to cleanly beat NHL goaltender or exploit his talent in the NHL. He is already D+2 and entering D+3. I mean, he could still develop and improve but time is ticking fast.

On the other hands, you have a guy like Beck who struggle to be a PPG in the CHL in the D+1 but when you watch the quickness, the tenacity, puck protection, hockey IQ, despite low production, the tools are way way better and its so easy in my opinion to picture him having a middle six role opposed to the Kidney and Roy and Farrell.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Agree. To me its simply about the tools.

I know people gives a lot of importance to point production and even predictive models are solely based on that.

But there is just so many players, like indeed Dumais, Roy, Kidney, Farrell. These guys are good against teenager but when they come into the extremely contingented NHL with prime athlete they don't have what it takes to cut it. The exact polar opposite of DY Brady Tkachuk. The ceiling appeared low because of hie dubious NCAA production, but the tools where sky high, a rare package.

Roy has a good shot and he position himself well but i don't see how he will be able to cleanly beat NHL goaltender or exploit his talent in the NHL. He is already D+2 and entering D+3. I mean, he could still develop and improve but time is ticking fast.

On the other hands, you have a guy like Beck who struggle to be a PPG in the CHL in the D+1 but when you watch the quickness, the tenacity, puck protection, hockey IQ, despite low production, the tools are way way better and its so easy in my opinion to picture him having a middle six role opposed to the Kidney and Roy and Farrell.

The only thing that Roy is missing is speed as he has high end skill, vision, hands, shooting, release and IQ. He is also quite strong and protects the puck well. He is an entirely different animal than Kidney and Farrell as he knows how to gain body position and leverage and wins most of his puck battles.

He is a sure fire NHLer imo and hurling insults at the Q is not an argument against it.

I wanted us to draft Beck and was ecstatic when we actually did but the only thing that he definitively has on Roy from a "tools" argument is skating. Roy gets the edge everywhere else although strength is probably quite close one way or another. Roy is far more skilled than Beck and has superior vision, all you have to do is watch Tyler Toffoli play to easily identify Roy's developmental upside. He is Michael Ryder with much better hands, vision and IQ. Roy has an innate ability to disguise his intention to pass or shoot with almost no upper body movement which is common among all elite NHL scorers. Sure some players can disguise their intent but not without losing effectiveness in their shot or in their passes, this is not the case with Roy and it is these traits that real scouts zone in on and casual fans don't notice.

Next time he plays, just iso on him you will notice how often he is in great position to receive the puck and not only to receive it but to actually do something with it. He was so far ahead of his linemates in these two games that if they were remotely on his level he may have filled the net. So many give and goes where he doesn't get the puck back and so many passes where it should have been one touched right back to him. This is why I like the idea of him with Suzuki and Caufield as they see the game similarly and Roy is very adept at winning puck battles and stripping opponents of the puck which will help create/maintain possession. I could also see him with Dach and Slaf in the future as well.

Like I said, I am happy to have Beck and I think he can be a difference maker as our future 3C but there is no conversation to be had that could reasonably support Beck being a better future top 6 candidate than Roy imo.

 

[Jaynki]

The only thing that Roy is missing is speed as he has high end skill, vision, hands, shooting, release and IQ. He is also quite strong and protects the puck well. He is an entirely different animal than Kidney and Farrell as he knows how to gain body position and leverage and wins most of his puck battles.

He is a sure fire NHLer imo and hurling insults at the Q is not an argument against it.

I wanted us to draft Beck and was ecstatic when we actually did but the only thing that he definitively has on Roy from a "tools" argument is skating. Roy gets the edge everywhere else although strength is probably quite close one way or another. Roy is far more skilled than Beck and has superior vision, all you have to do is watch Tyler Toffoli play to easily identify Roy's developmental upside. He is Michael Ryder with much better hands, vision and IQ. Roy has an innate ability to disguise his intention to pass or shoot with almost no upper body movement which is common among all elite NHL scorers. Sure some players can disguise their intent but not without losing effectiveness in their shot or in their passes, this is not the case with Roy and it is these traits that real scouts zone in on and casual fans don't notice.

Next time he plays, just iso on him you will notice how often he is in great position to receive the puck and not only to receive it but to actually do something with it. He was so far ahead of his linemates in these two games that if they were remotely on his level he may have filled the net. So many give and goes where he doesn't get the puck back and so many passes where it should have been one touched right back to him. This is why I like the idea of him with Suzuki and Caufield as they see the game similarly and Roy is very adept at winning puck battles and stripping opponents of the puck which will help create/maintain possession. I could also see him with Dach and Slaf in the future as well.

Like I said, I am happy to have Beck and I think he can be a difference maker as our future 3C but there is no conversation to be had that could reasonably support Beck being a better future top 6 candidate than Roy imo.

I can get behind that. I think indeed he has more to offer than Farrell or Kidney.

Big year ahead for him.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I can get behind that. I think indeed he has more to offer than Farrell or Kidney.

Big year ahead for him.

I feel like Roy will be better in the NHL when he gets there than he will be in the AHL. The biggest separator between AHLers and NHLers is hockey IQ and he is so much more dangerous when he is playing with like minded players. This is why he and Bedard clicked so well at the WJC's and why the coach ended up keeping him up there.

 

[Jaynki]

I feel like Roy will be better in the NHL when he gets there than he will be in the AHL. The biggest separator between AHLers and NHLers is hockey IQ and he is so much more dangerous when he is playing with like minded players. This is why he and Bedard clicked so well at the WJC's and why the coach ended up keeping him up there.

I think he will have a strong look at the training camp but i would also argue that speed, reaction time and physicality is also a very big separator between AHLers and NHLers and this is where i am dubious for Roy.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Agree. To me its simply about the tools.

I know people gives a lot of importance to point production and even predictive models are solely based on that.

But there is just so many players, like indeed Dumais, Roy, Kidney, Farrell. These guys are good against teenager but when they come into the extremely contingented NHL with prime athlete they don't have what it takes to cut it. The exact polar opposite of DY Brady Tkachuk. The ceiling appeared low because of hie dubious NCAA production, but the tools where sky high, a rare package.

Roy has a good shot and he position himself well but i don't see how he will be able to cleanly beat NHL goaltender or exploit his talent in the NHL. He is already D+2 and entering D+3. I mean, he could still develop and improve but time is ticking fast.

On the other hands, you have a guy like Beck who struggle to be a PPG in the CHL in the D+1 but when you watch the quickness, the tenacity, puck protection, hockey IQ, despite low production, the tools are way way better and its so easy in my opinion to picture him having a middle six role opposed to the Kidney and Roy and Farrell.

Roy's IQ separates himself from other similar prospects. He dominated the Q in D+1 and D+2 as well as the WJHC and is one of the youngest prospects from his draft. He has improved on his biggest weaknesses (speed and drive/focus and conditioning). He reminds me of Suzuki in his development and his perceived weaknesses.

Out of all our forward prospects, he (and Beck) are the only ones who's games translates the best to pro hockey. The rest are suspect (Mesar / Farrell etc).

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I think he will have a strong look at the training camp but i would also argue that speed, reaction time and physicality is also a very big separator between AHLers and NHLers and this is where i am dubious for Roy.

Reaction time is directly IQ related and should be of no issue for Roy although he will have to adjust to the pace of play as seams and openings will close quicker so he will have to move his feet a little more but this is not a speed issue if you know where to be even before they open. I think his skating is almost a non issue if his IQ is as high as I believe it may be. He is great on the backcheck despite his lack of speed as he takes routes that lead him to where the attacker will end up rather than just chasing him. Toffoli, Stone, O'Reilly, Robertson, Giroux, Boeser, Strome, Perry, Gallagher, Palmieri, M.Tkachuk, Benn, Tavares etc are all below average to well below average in terms of speed but all have had very successful careers due almost entirely to advanced IQ (Gallagher is just unparalleled hustle/effort).

He is very strong relative to his height/peers and will get stronger as he ages but the key again is IQ as he maximizes his strength by gaining positional advantage and calculating rolls and undercuts before he even takes contact. This is exactly what Kucherov and Pastrnak do as well as they often initiate contact to gain advantage and have it down to a science. Roy was one of the very best at doing this in the CHL and it was one of his greatest possession tactics again at the WJC.

There are just too many pro style nuances to his game that faster junior players rarely do and he is doing them at a pro level. I usually crap all over slower junior prospects who put up big numbers by exploiting the holes in the junior game with tactics that don't translate to the next level but Roy is not one of them. He was very deliberate last season in refining his pro translatable skills which was very impressive to me.

I wasn't a believer when we drafted him but he has won me over for sure. I think he may be the key to our future PP and I would be shocked if he doesn't become a legit NHLer.

 

[Rapala]

There is so much to like about this kid and I think he's going to have to be a player that keeps his feet moving if he hopes to succeed. The slower guys that survive and prosper in the NHL all have a special talent and it starts with knowing how to cut down the ice. I remember watching an article on Jaromir in his comeback years and it was amazing how much energy and effort he was able to save by knowing how to do this. Another player of note for me was Thomas Vanek with that same skill. The interesting thing was they were rarely ever standing still or flat footed other than faceoffs. Actually on our current team Nick Suzuki has some of this in him.

 

[BoneHutson]

I wouldnt mind this top 6 to start the year:

Slaf (depending on his camp but no doubt he can get there)-Suzuki-Caufield

Newhook-Dach (sharing FO with Newhook)-Roy.

On that 2nd line, Roy would get to play with two fast players, able to read his intentions. As a dual threat player, Roy could be fed prime scoring opportunity by Dach and his elite passing skills, and he could himself feed Newhook (elite shot).

Then that 3rd lines could be a mix of Monahan, Heineman, Horse and RHP.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

Roy's IQ separates himself from other similar prospects. He dominated the Q in D+1 and D+2 as well as the WJHC and is one of the youngest prospects from his draft. He has improved on his biggest weaknesses (speed and drive/focus and conditioning). He reminds me of Suzuki in his development and his perceived weaknesses.

Out of all our forward prospects, he (and Beck) are the only ones who's games translates the best to pro hockey. The rest are suspect (Mesar / Farrell etc).

I feel we can add Heinekens game as translatable as well

 

[Goldthorpe]

Waawaa

You made me such a big star

Being there at the right time

Cheaper than a dime

 

[NekkiChiconey]

Holding out hope for a Robertson-like progression. Both young in their draft year, dominated juniors in D+1/D+2, both have poor skating technique but high IQ and plus offensive tools.

Obviously it's unlikely he explodes like Robertson as I think he's more of a complementary forward, but add in the defense and you've got a player. If he turns out to be a Ondrej Palat for example, that would be great.

 

[alasania94]

I wouldnt mind this top 6 to start the year:

Slaf (depending on his camp but no doubt he can get there)-Suzuki-Caufield

Newhook-Dach (sharing FO with Newhook)-Roy.

On that 2nd line, Roy would get to play with two fast players, able to read his intentions. As a dual threat player, Roy could be fed prime scoring opportunity by Dach and his elite passing skills, and he could himself feed Newhook (elite shot).

Then that 3rd lines could be a mix of Monahan, Heineman, Horse and RHP.

Newhook has a muffin shot…

 

[SlafySZN]

Newhook has a muffin shot…

Not at all.

 

[AlexGretzchenvid]

It’s amazing how a prospect like Suzuki and Roy will have such an important impact for their teams but will never look like Bedard and mcdavid.

Not at all.

It’s definitely not a top quality shot, but it’s better than most 3rd liners when he can actually get it off.

 

[SlafySZN]

It’s amazing how a prospect like Suzuki and Roy will have such an important impact for their teams but will never look like Bedard and mcdavid.


It’s definitely not a top quality shot, but it’s better than most 3rd liners when he can actually get it off.

His shot is quality, not Caufield like of course but definitely not a muffin shot

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Reaction time is directly IQ related and should be of no issue for Roy although he will have to adjust to the pace of play as seams and openings will close quicker so he will have to move his feet a little more but this is not a speed issue if you know where to be even before they open. I think his skating is almost a non issue if his IQ is as high as I believe it may be. He is great on the backcheck despite his lack of speed as he takes routes that lead him to where the attacker will end up rather than just chasing him. Toffoli, Stone, O'Reilly, Robertson, Giroux, Boeser, Strome, Perry, Gallagher, Palmieri, M.Tkachuk, Benn, Tavares etc are all below average to well below average in terms of speed but all have had very successful careers due almost entirely to advanced IQ (Gallagher is just unparalleled hustle/effort).

He is very strong relative to his height/peers and will get stronger as he ages but the key again is IQ as he maximizes his strength by gaining positional advantage and calculating rolls and undercuts before he even takes contact. This is exactly what Kucherov and Pastrnak do as well as they often initiate contact to gain advantage and have it down to a science. Roy was one of the very best at doing this in the CHL and it was one of his greatest possession tactics again at the WJC.

There are just too many pro style nuances to his game that faster junior players rarely do and he is doing them at a pro level. I usually crap all over slower junior prospects who put up big numbers by exploiting the holes in the junior game with tactics that don't translate to the next level but Roy is not one of them. He was very deliberate last season in refining his pro translatable skills which was very impressive to me.

I wasn't a believer when we drafted him but he has won me over for sure. I think he may be the key to our future PP and I would be shocked if he doesn't become a legit NHLer.

Yeah like I said many times, once I saw the strength and puck protection in his game along with the D, I became a believer. He’s got great complimentary winger written all over him. He’ll fill out the stats of whomever he plays with when he’s ready. With Suzuki and Caufield there numbers would get a significant bump imo

 

[Matthew McConaughay]

Yeah like I said many times, once I saw the strength and puck protection in his game along with the D, I became a believer. He’s got great complimentary winger written all over him. He’ll fill out the stats of whomever he plays with when he’s ready. With Suzuki and Caufield there numbers would get a significant bump imo

I agree 100%.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Newhook has a muffin shot…

Newhook has a near elite shot.

 

[1909]

I think that title belong to Beck,no?

Beck does not have half of Roy's offensive skills. But I could see them both on our 3rd line in October 2024-25 season start. Dvorak will be gone and hopefully Armia too.

 

[Mudz]

His shot is quality, not Caufield like of course but definitely not a muffin shot

I think it's closer to Caufield's than we think. It's different for sure. Newhook use power more than quickness, but it's he can beat goalies from really far.

 

[frapp10]

Forward that impressed me the most during the rookie tournament