Prospect Info: Joshua Roy Part 2

[WeThreeKings]

There's a lot of other important parts of his game that need to be improved before he's a NHLer.

They will send him down to work on those things and he might not be as productive next year but as long as the elements that are needed to improve, improve, who cares?

Farrell is going back and he has less to work on to be a NHLer than Roy.

 

[jfm133]

Letting Roy drop to the end of the fifth round was draft malpractice by the whole league, including the Habs. I wanted him at the end of the second round before the draft and it's at least where he should have been taken given his conditioning and attitude problems. The Sherbrooke Phoenix scouts did a better job than all the NHL scouts on Roy. They gave three first round picks and a second round pick to acquire Roy. You don't give that much for a #150 overall in the NHL. As I said before, it is a return similar to what Drummundville gave for Joe Veleno that ended up being a first round pick (#30). So junior team scouts in Sherbrooke had a better evaluation of Roy than Habs' scouts and scouts from the whole NHL.. Yes Roy had question marks, but the talent and the track record should have justified to pick him in the second round.

The question I have about Roy is....why did he drop so much? He was a first overall pick in the Q. It should be reasoned that if he was selected 1st overall in one of Canada's top leagues, he was considered a top prospect for his age at the time. Let's for arguments sake say he was a top 15 Canadian prospect (taking into account the O, W and any prospects who went NCAA route).

So at 15 he would have been around top 15 prospects for his age across Canada. But then, during covid, with very limited scouting and the world turned upside down, he dropped down to a 5th round NHL pick. I would suggest that his slide is more the anomaly than the dominant year he had this year. This is exactly what was expected of him, and there is no reason to think at this point, he won't be shooting way above the 5th round pick status. Roy (119 pts) is 5 months older than Shane Wright (94 pts) who was his 1st overall contemporary in the OHL and three months younger than Wyatt Johnson (124 pts) who led the O and was a 1st rounder in the NHL. The Q isn't that much of a weaker league than the O.

Not sure what the NHL scouts saw that dropped him to a 5th round pick, but every sign is pointing to this guy being an NHL regular and he looks at this point like an absolute steal.

We've got a good one boys. Hopefully he continues to develop. Darkhorse to make the team next year.

Post automatically merged: May 2, 2022

I said the league quality versus Roy. He will be older, physically stronger in a younger league. Not hard to understand.

Why would the league quality go down next year? This year graduates aren't especially stronger than usual.

Again, all I said was that it will be interesting to see him on a team without another top junior player.



He was picked late due to questions about his work ethic and skating. The work ethic part seems to be sorted.

 

[Joe Lamb]

Roy didn't even think he would be drafted.

Scouts thought Roy had poor off-ice/on-ice work ethics after his first season, when the problems was that he didn't have anyone around him with pro training knowledge (gym, nutrition, etc). He ended up asking for a trade and was lucky to end up with Sherbrooke. They have a create coaching staff who provides the info/guidance he needs. But once he joined Sherbrooke, Covid less or more mean that only the Habs really had eyes on him.

He's a good example how leaving a player to find answers by themselves can lead to failed development. Some of them need proper structure and guidance to get there.

He already has plan for things to work on in the off-season and next season in the Q.

Repeating BS will not make it fact. Roy arrived in Saint John and was suddenly not the "star". He fell into bad habits. To say that he did not have the resources to eat and train properly with the Sea Dogs is only a way to save face. Those same resources are in place for a team that just finished the season winning 15 games in a row. Doesn't seem to have hindered the career of the many current or former players.

The finger pointing words said by Roy leaving town were such that he knew he needed to step up once he arrived in Sherbrooke. The NHL draft was another eye opener. He found the answer, he looked in the mirror.

The result has been a great year ! He has answered many questions and the future is very bright. But he has to prove he can continue to improve and not to become complacent with an NHL contract in his pocket. To best do that would be by again dominating the Q and working on the skating and defensive play aspects of his game.

I also like the Toffoli comparison, or maybe even a player that is better. I can't wait to see him on the habs powerplay one day. I think his vision, shot and puck distribution are elite. But that will take time - next year in the Q, and at least a half year in the AHL.

 

[Colezuki]

Letting Roy drop to the end of the fifth round was draft malpractice by the whole league, including the Habs. I wanted him at the end of the second round before the draft and it's at least where he should have been taken given his conditioning and attitude problems. The Sherbrooke Phoenix scouts did a better job than all the NHL scouts on Roy. They gave three first round picks and a second round pick to acquire Roy. You don't give that much for a #150 overall in the NHL. As I said before, it is a return similar to what Drummundville gave for Joe Veleno that ended up being a first round pick (#30). So junior team scouts in Sherbrooke had a better evaluation of Roy than Habs' scouts and scouts from the whole NHL.. Yes Roy had question marks, but the talent and the track record should have justified to pick him in the second round.

Post automatically merged: May 2, 2022

I said the league quality versus Roy. He will be older, physically stronger in a younger league. Not hard to understand.

I think the issue was getting into the maritimes last year, 2 week quarantine and a lot of Q scouts are based in QC or Halifax, with the league effectively being split in two, some teams wouldn't draft players they hadn't seen with their own eyes.

 

[morhilane]

Repeating BS will not make it fact. Roy arrived in Saint John and was suddenly not the "star". He fell into bad habits. To say that he did not have the resources to eat and train properly with the Sea Dogs is only a way to save face. Those same resources are in place for a team that just finished the season winning 15 games in a row. Doesn't seem to have hindered the career of the many current or former players.

It wasn't Roy who said he lacked resources with the Sea Dogs. He only complained about the short not hard enough practices and the food during trips and made comparison with his experience in Sherbrooke. It was Timmins who said he knew nothing about pro athlete nutrition/off-ice training and that Sherbrooke was going to help him learn that. Julien, Sherbrooke's head coach, made similar comments.

And it's not the same resources who are in places this year. Unless you think the coaching staff carrousel at Saint John the last two years didn't happen? Dixon barely lasted 30 games into his first season and Gilbert, his second season coach, was fired right before training camp last summer.

 

[QuebecPride]

I saw Saturday's game vs. Rouyn, I was there for Business purposes so was trying to entertain clients, but Roy had a pretty good game. He was never really under pressure to make plays, he made a beautiful in-tight move right in the middle of the slot to get loose and get a decent chance. He's not overly noticeable (not fast, not flashy), but he makes the smart/right play a lot of the time.

Sherbrooke was just too strong for Rouyn, who had their 3rd goalie in net. Poor kid has a 5+ GAA, he didn't stand a chance. I'm sorry I don't have much more to say, I was not funneled to scout him. But I had a good time anyway. I might get tickets in the box again for the playoffs. Hopefully the Phoenix make a deep-run. It would be a nice change. I remember the first few years where Rouyn was handing out the beating to Sherbrooke.

 

[Vachon23]

I saw Saturday's game vs. Rouyn, I was there for Business purposes so was trying to entertain clients, but Roy had a pretty good game. He was never really under pressure to make plays, he made a beautiful in-tight move right in the middle of the slot. He's not overly noticeable (not fast, not flashy), but he makes the smart/right play a lot of the time.

Sherbrooke was just too strong for Rouyn, who had their 3rd goalie in net. Poor kid has a 5+ GAA, he didn't stand a chance. I'm sorry I don't have much more to say, I was not funneled to scout him. But I had a good time anyway. I might get tickets in the box again for the playoffs. Hopefully the Phoenix make a deep-run. It would be a nice change. I remember the first few years where Rouyn was handing out beating to Sherbrooke.

Rouyn was beating anybody in 2016 and 2019 haha. What an awesome job Gilles Bouchard and Raphael Pouilot (Head Scot) did during those years

 

[Nicko999]

I will be on minority here but I believe he will crack the opening lineup in MTL next year.

I also think he should be given a chance if he impresses at training camp.

Never believed in the concept of ruining prospects because they were "rushed" anyway. If someone is going to bust, it's gonna be his own fault most if the time.
The sooner in the NHL, the better. You will get more out of a player starting in the NHL at 20 than at 23.

 

[1909]

Roy will only be 19 and will have to go back to the Q if he is not making the club next Fall.

The question is : what does he still have to learn at Junior level ?

 

[bcv]

Roy will only be 19 and will have to go back to the Q if he is not making the club next Fall.

The question is : what does he still have to learn at Junior level ?

His play away from the puck.

 

[Joe Lamb]

It wasn't Roy who said he lacked resources with the Sea Dogs. He only complained about the short not hard enough practices and the food during trips and made comparison with his experience in Sherbrooke. It was Timmins who said he knew nothing about pro athlete nutrition/off-ice training and that Sherbrooke was going to help him learn that. Julien, Sherbrooke's head coach, made similar comments.

And it's not the same resources who are in places this year. Unless you think the coaching staff carrousel at Saint John the last two years didn't happen? Dixon barely lasted 30 games into his first season and Gilbert, his second season coach, was fired right before training camp last summer.

Well Josh Dixon was not ready to be a head coach, absolutely, even though he did get an assistant coach's job in Prince George soon after his departure from Saint John. And Gilbert had a great track record but did very little behind the bench. Gordie Dwyer has been a breath of fresh air and the team's performance reflects that. So with regards to coaches, you are correct., 3 coaches in 3 years.

But, other than the "coaching carrousel" the rest of the management and coaching staff has been very stable from the last Memorial Cup appearance in 2017 ( Windsor ) through Josh Roy's time with the Sea Dogs. In fact, no changes to the video coach, faceoff coach, therapist, the strength and conditioning coach, one assistant coach, general manager and assistant general manager. The rink is the same, the ice time availability is the same, the off-ice resources are the same.

Stuff happens in junior hockey, there is always some changes, lots of decisions. Maybe being closer to home has helped in the decision making process. If that is the case, Montreal was the right place to be drafted to. I crave that the Montreal Canadiens again become a dominant team in the NHL and I hope that Josh Roy is a key piece of that team. But, IMO that requires patience, both for the team success and this player.

 

[jfm133]

It's not a question of learning, it's a question of maturing. He needs to get stronger, faster, and play and dominate as as stronger and faster player. Again, if returning junior at 19 was good for Suzuki, it will be good for Roy. There is absolutely no need to rush him in the NHL next season. It's not as if he would make a difference.

Roy will only be 19 and will have to go back to the Q if he is not making the club next Fall.

The question is : what does he still have to learn at Junior level ?

 

[morhilane]

Roy will only be 19 and will have to go back to the Q if he is not making the club next Fall.

The question is : what does he still have to learn at Junior level ?

It's not about learning new things, it's about working on the details of a pro-ready game while dominating your opposition. It's way easier to do in the Q than the NHL.

 

[xX SEYF Xx]

hope they keep him 9 games, give him a work plan and send him back to Sherbrooke

 

[AlexGretzchenvid]

Roy will only be 19 and will have to go back to the Q if he is not making the club next Fall.

The question is : what does he still have to learn at Junior level ?

Probably just REPS. He ( along with alot of other people ) missed those reps during covid.

Him being drafted by montreal probably had alot more to do with Bergevin ( being the snaky guy he is) being able to find a way to keep ROY in quebec.

Thats all I'll say about that. it's INCREDIBLE dallas doesn't take a chance on ROY let alone Minnesota Detroit amongst others.

 

[Treb]

I also think he should be given a chance if he impresses at training camp.

Never believed in the concept of ruining prospects because they were "rushed" anyway. If someone is going to bust, it's gonna be his own fault most if the time.
The sooner in the NHL, the better. You will get more out of a player starting in the NHL at 20 than at 23.

How do you get better at hockey? By playing hockey.

Getting 1st line minutes versus 4th line minutes. Playing offensive role instead of defensive role.

It's definitely a lot on the players, but the more opportunities you give him, the more he can take.

 

[Sagikev]

Parent was also a big part of it as a duo. Next year, they don't have anyone I know of that will have a similar impact. Other vets (of lesser impact) are also leaving.

Unless they have some young guys coming I don't know about, it's going to be Roy vs the world next year instead of Roy and Parent vs the world.

I think he'll do well, but it's going to be interesting to see the difference. I wouldn't be surprised to see a drop from 119 points (while still being the team point leader by a fair margin).

Doesn't mean he's bad or anything.

They can still trade for players, although they traded a lot of draft capital for Roy. There's also last years 1st overall in Ethan Gauthier who had a pretty good 16 year old season. Should be a good one next year. Then again, there are overagers that just explode when they get to 20 year old. Xavier Parent is a good example. Barely PPG last season to almost 2 ppg this year. Anyone playing with Roy should have pretty good stats. Let's hope someone can actually take Parent's place though

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I will be on minority here but I believe he will crack the opening lineup in MTL next year.

Kinda hope he doesn't. We've rushed our prospects for so long. Let him get big minutes, dominate, gain confidence...

If he comes here and we put him on the 3rd line, what's the point? Besides, it sounds like he could put on a few pounds anyway.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Kinda hope he doesn't. We've rushed our prospects for so long. Let him get big minutes, dominate, gain confidence...

If he comes here and we put him on the 3rd line, what's the point? Besides, it sounds like he could put on a few pounds anyway.

The issue is that is he is too good for the Q, not enough to play a meaningful role in the NHL. Canada is definitely lacking a NCAA level league in my opinion. I am not sure you would have played Caufield two years post draft in the USHL. Farrel got to the NCAA after the year he dominated the USHL, that s the kind of way Roy would need in my opinion.

That s why I think MTL needs to tank next, play young guys good minutes without much pressure. Roy could likely play PP2 and 3rd line in an offense first role.

 

[26Mats]

The issue is that is he is too good for the Q, not enough to play a meaningful role in the NHL. Canada is definitely lacking a NCAA level league in my opinion. I am not sure you would have played Caufield two years post draft in the USHL. Farrel got to the NCAA after the year he dominated the USHL, that s the kind of way Roy would need in my opinion.

That s why I think MTL needs to tank next, play young guys good minutes without much pressure. Roy could likely play PP2 and 3rd line in an offense first role.

Roy could also go play in Europe, such as the swiss League where Austin Matthews played.

But if Suzuki was ok going back for a 2nd post draft year, I think Roy will be too.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Roy could also go play in Europe, such as the swiss League where Austin Matthews played.

But if Suzuki was ok going back for a 2nd post draft year, I think Roy will be too.

Well I think he could be ok to return, I am just not positive it would do him good that's all. It worked ok for Suzuki but it's hard to know if it really was useful or not.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The issue is that is he is too good for the Q, not enough to play a meaningful role in the NHL. Canada is definitely lacking a NCAA level league in my opinion. I am not sure you would have played Caufield two years post draft in the USHL. Farrel got to the NCAA after the year he dominated the USHL, that s the kind of way Roy would need in my opinion.

That s why I think MTL needs to tank next, play young guys good minutes without much pressure. Roy could likely play PP2 and 3rd line in an offense first role.

Can’t he go to the AHL?

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Can’t he go to the AHL?

No, he's too young and has 3 seasons on the QMJHL, instead of the 4 seasons required.

 

[Sorinth]

While I agree in principal, it does need to flex for rare cases, in this example I absolutely believe that Kidney should go back. But Roy, who looked like he belonged last TC and had a phenomenal year in the Q is worth a look at Training camp again. This isn't a kid whose been building slowly this is a player who other then his draft year was always viewed as elite within his age group.

It's not good enough to simply look like you belongs in training camp since there's still a level jump from training camp to NHL. That said who knows, Roy might be able too he has the skill but if he can take the next step in terms of speed and looks polished in all three zones then it could happen.

 

[Sorinth]

The issue is that is he is too good for the Q, not enough to play a meaningful role in the NHL. Canada is definitely lacking a NCAA level league in my opinion. I am not sure you would have played Caufield two years post draft in the USHL. Farrel got to the NCAA after the year he dominated the USHL, that s the kind of way Roy would need in my opinion.

That s why I think MTL needs to tank next, play young guys good minutes without much pressure. Roy could likely play PP2 and 3rd line in an offense first role.

Not sure Roy is too good for the Q, but there's always the option of going to Europe for a year.

Matthews did that for his pre-draft year, it didn't catch on as common practice but there's certainly players that would benefit from it either pre/post draft. I'd even go as far as saying MTL should push the envelope and make a deal with a European team(s) to become a sort of Euro-AHL affiliate team.