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Prospect Info: Joshua Roy Part 2

Habs Halifax said:
We were talking about Dumais (not Roy). I think both players skating can use some improvement but Roy's size and frame and style of game gives him a good shot at making the NHL IMO. I think he is great at capitalizing on chances and the limited open space he will get. However, he will need a good center to do most of the work. That type of winger.

Not everyone can improve skating from age 18-21 range. We fell into that trap with KK remember? Exceptions to the rule.
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Habs Halifax said:
le but the exception is not the rule.
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Habs Halifax said:
We were talking about Dumais (not Roy). I think both players skating can use some improvement but Roy's size and frame and style of game gives him a good shot at making the NHL IMO. I think he is great at capitalizing on chances and the limited open space he will get. However, he will need a good center to do most of the work. That type of winger.

Not everyone can improve skating from age 18-21 range. We fell into that trap with KK remember? Exceptions to the rule but the exception is not the rule.
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The Habs have wasted many first round picks on players who couldn't skate well, going back to Savard and certainly Houle. And yes, we will find many more NHLers by picking guys who can skate well, than finding the exception to that rule.
 
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yianik said:
The Habs have wasted many first round picks on players who couldn't skate well, going back to Savard and certainly Houle. And yes, we will find many more NHLers by picking guys who can skate well, than finding the exception to that rule.
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Skating and Skill is very important. Then you got to look at Hockey IQ and size. Obsession to improve is also a huge factor IMO. Hard to figure that out but scouts can dig into those areas.
 
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yianik said:
The Habs have wasted many first round picks on players who couldn't skate well, going back to Savard and certainly Houle. And yes, we will find many more NHLers by picking guys who can skate well, than finding the exception to that rule.
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The wastage goes back farther than Houle.

During the last 5 years of Pollock's tenure his drafting record in the first two rounds was at best mediocre: 1978 -Dan Geoffrion 1st; Dave Hunter 1st; Dale Yakiwchuk 2nd; Ron Carter 2nd - 1977 Mark Napier 1st; Norm Dupont 1st; Rod Langway 2nd; 1976 - Peter Lee 1st; Rod Schutt 1st; Bruce Baker 1st; Barry Melrose 2nd; 1975 - Robin Sadler 1st; Pierre Mondou 1st; Brian Engblom 2nd; Kelly Greenbank 2nd; 1974 - Cam Conner 1st; Doug Risebrough 1st; Rick Chartraw 1st; Mario Trembly 1st; Gord McTavish 1st ; Gary Macgregor 2nd; Gilles Lupien 2nd; 1973 - Bob Gainey 1st; Glenn Goldup 2nd; Peter Marrin; 2nd Ron Andruff.

Between 1973 and 1978 Montreal had accumulated 26 prime draft choices ( 1st and 2nd rounders). Charitably, only 8 of these draftees developed into impactful players. That is a success rate that is the foundation of failure. Pollock's drafting success in the later rounds was even worse. It would appear that the legendary Pollock was much better at accumulating draft capital late in his career, than successfully using them.

There is a reason why this proud franchise has only won two Stanley Cups in the last half century. You only have to look at our drafting record (including Pollock's) to see why.
 
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ChesterNimitz said:
The wastage goes back farther than Houle.

During the last 5 years of Pollock's tenure his drafting record in the first two rounds was at best mediocre: 1978 -Dan Geoffrion 1st; Dave Hunter 1st; Dale Yakiwchuk 2nd; Ron Carter 2nd - 1977 Mark Napier 1st; Norm Dupont 1st; Rod Langway 2nd; 1976 - Peter Lee 1st; Rod Schutt 1st; Bruce Baker 1st; Barry Melrose 2nd; 1975 - Robin Sadler 1st; Pierre Mondou 1st; Brian Engblom 2nd; Kelly Greenbank 2nd; 1974 - Cam Conner 1st; Doug Risebrough 1st; Rick Chartraw 1st; Mario Trembly 1st; Gord McTavish 1st ; Gary Macgregor 2nd; Gilles Lupien 2nd; 1973 - Bob Gainey 1st; Glenn Goldup 2nd; Peter Marrin; 2nd Ron Andruff.

Between 1973 and 1978 Montreal had accumulated 26 prime draft choices ( 1st and 2nd rounders). Charitably, only 8 of these draftees developed into impactful players. That is a success rate that is the foundation of failure. Pollock's drafting success in the later rounds was even worse. It would appear that the legendary Pollock was much better at accumulating draft capital late in his career, than successfully using them.

There is a reason why this proud franchise has only won two Stanley Cups in the last half century. You only have to look at our drafting record (including Pollock's) to see why.
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That is awful. You would think our scouting would be top notch.
 
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yianik said:
That is awful. You would think our scouting would be top notch.
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Back then, there was really no organized scouting system and teams often drafted players having never seen them play. It was primitive. I had a chance to meet several professional scouts back in the 1970s. After talking with them for 10 minutes I realized that some of these scouts I wouldn't trust with a bowl of potato salad let alone relying on them to make an in depth qualitative decision about a player's projected development. I came away shaking my head. In my current position I have to interact with professional, NCAA, Junior and Hockey Canada scouts. By in large they are far more educated and insightful. The scouting role has been transformed from a position that was once filled with hockey hacks on their last legs who were hired to reward them for past services to one where insight, analytical skills and depth of knowledge is required. That being said, I still come away shaking my head after dealing with some of these so called scouts.
 
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ChesterNimitz said:
The wastage goes back farther than Houle.

During the last 5 years of Pollock's tenure his drafting record in the first two rounds was at best mediocre: 1978 -Dan Geoffrion 1st; Dave Hunter 1st; Dale Yakiwchuk 2nd; Ron Carter 2nd - 1977 Mark Napier 1st; Norm Dupont 1st; Rod Langway 2nd; 1976 - Peter Lee 1st; Rod Schutt 1st; Bruce Baker 1st; Barry Melrose 2nd; 1975 - Robin Sadler 1st; Pierre Mondou 1st; Brian Engblom 2nd; Kelly Greenbank 2nd; 1974 - Cam Conner 1st; Doug Risebrough 1st; Rick Chartraw 1st; Mario Trembly 1st; Gord McTavish 1st ; Gary Macgregor 2nd; Gilles Lupien 2nd; 1973 - Bob Gainey 1st; Glenn Goldup 2nd; Peter Marrin; 2nd Ron Andruff.

Between 1973 and 1978 Montreal had accumulated 26 prime draft choices ( 1st and 2nd rounders). Charitably, only 8 of these draftees developed into impactful players. That is a success rate that is the foundation of failure. Pollock's drafting success in the later rounds was even worse. It would appear that the legendary Pollock was much better at accumulating draft capital late in his career, than successfully using them.

There is a reason why this proud franchise has only won two Stanley Cups in the last half century. You only have to look at our drafting record (including Pollock's) to see why.
Click to expand...

When you look at those drafts, the only absolutely inexcusable one was 1974, where with FOUR 1st round picks they missed out on Bryan Trottier and Mark Howe who went in the 2nd round. Sure, they missed out on Bossy in 1978, but they only had one pick before him, and these things happen. Otherwise, while there were better players missed by Montreal, none of them would have redefined an era.

Getting Trottier in 1974 would have been incredible. He would have changed the 1980's for us. If we had gotten both he and Howe, we would have been a dynasty in the 1980's too, especially since the Isles would miss their #1 center.
 
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Matthew McConaughay said:
He had a slow start, but he's exploding now, almost second in points in the league.
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He had an injury to a hand to start his season. And it must be hard to come back at Junior level when you have dominated the year before.

BenchBrawl said:
When you look at those drafts, the only absolutely inexcusable one was 1974, where with FOUR 1st round picks they missed out on Bryan Trottier and Mark Howe who went in the 2nd round. Sure, they missed out on Bossy in 1978, but they only had one pick before him, and these things happen. Otherwise, while there were better players missed by Montreal, none of them would have redefined an era.

Getting Trottier in 1974 would have been incredible. He would have changed the 1980's for us. If we had gotten both he and Howe, we would have been a dynasty in the 1980's too, especially since the Isles would miss their #1 center.
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Pollock was not as great as most people think. Serge Savard had some (many) darn awful drafts too.
 
Scorey Perry said:
Bob McKenzie was in talking about Joshua Roy being Canada’s best forward thus far. Quite the statement considering Bedard is on this team
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Bedard is amazing and special. But I know what McKenzie means by Roy being their best forward this far. Because he's being used in all situations.

He can be a Bottom-6 player and can be moved up to the top line. Play PK and PP.

He's Canada's most versatile forward.
 
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KevSkillz4 said:
With his skating better than last year, we can all expect big hope for this guy at NHL level.

If he continue like that, no doubt, he can become a really good top 6 player.

Farrell and Roy, both are huge steal to me. They have all things to become really good NHL'er player.
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yeah it's heartening enough for me that he's shown improvement in his skating from D+1 to D+2. As long as you see gains from year to year it's a good sign. I've only seen highlights but the skills look really impressive. Great vision and shot. Sounds like a certain #1C on our squad.
 
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KevSkillz4 said:
With his skating better than last year, we can all expect big hope for this guy at NHL level.

If he continue like that, no doubt, he can become a really good top 6 player.

Farrell and Roy, both are huge steal to me. They have all things to become really good NHL'er player.
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We just need that top 6 C that is just gonna make them even better. Future is looking bright.
 
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KevSkillz4 said:
Owen Beck or 2023 draft pick? I see Kirby Dach as a RW.
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Most likely our first rounder in the next draft, or maybe a big trade. I also see Kirby as a RW. I don't count Beck out as a top 6 player, but if he slots in as a 3rd line C, that means we nailed our first round pick(s) in 2023.
 
Adam Michaels said:
Bedard is amazing and special. But I know what McKenzie means by Roy being their best forward this far. Because he's being used in all situations.

He can be a Bottom-6 player and can be moved up to the top line. Play PK and PP.

He's Canada's most versatile forward.
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If Roy develops into top 6, be good for Habs. Stack farm system best we can.
 
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Skip Bayless said:
We just need that top 6 C that is just gonna make them even better. Future is looking bright.
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yeah getting someone that could even push Suzuki to #2 and we're laughing. I feel like Roy, Farrell and co. can round out the top 6/9 just fine.

Beck just seems like too big a dream boat though at C. He's insanely projectable. I'd almost prefer a winger. Though really I think Beck could move to the wing just fine.
 
dackelljuneaubulis02 said:
yeah it's heartening enough for me that he's shown improvement in his skating from D+1 to D+2. As long as you see gains from year to year it's a good sign. I've only seen highlights but the skills look really impressive. Great vision and shot. Sounds like a certain #1C on our squad.
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Roy has magical hands. I've seen him swipe a lose puck near the net and score a goal before anyone knows wtf happened a few times.
 
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