Prospect Info: Joshua Roy Part 2

[Natey]

He's not NHL ready. Reway was the last cut once upon a time IIRC. It just means management wanted a deeper look at him for future projections.

Reway looked great at one point in time. His career took a harsh turn and he was never the same player, even though there were glimpses.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Any player who shows he's ready deserves a try-out. Maybe 11 games or maybe the whole season but that's what happen with any sport. If he need to learn few more things then he should go back to LHJMQ. If he's ready, I'm curious to see him play, like any other Habs fan.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I’m not of the camp that guys must be held back. I understand gratification delay, but when a player dominates their level and you have good coaches and veteran depth you can bring them up. Guys like Galchenyuk and Kotkaniemi didn’t fail because they were rushed. They failed because they lacked ability. If Roy is ready, I’d love for him to be tied to Wrights hip. Both IMO are ready. Let them grow together.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Let him ingrain his Art Ross-like instincts with another season of total domination in the QMJHL.

Joshua Roy is the most important project we have in the organization, other than the 1st overall pick. Can't f*** this up.

Although, with St. Louis as Head Coach, I'm less worried if he does make the team.

 

[Heffyhoof]

I’m not of the camp that guys must be held back. I understand gratification delay, but when a player dominates their level and you have good coaches and veteran depth you can bring them up. Guys like Galchenyuk and Kotkaniemi didn’t fail because they were rushed. They failed because they lacked ability. If Roy is ready, I’d love for him to be tied to Wrights hip. Both IMO are ready. Let them grow together.

Galchenyuk and Kotkaniemi both had more talent when drafted than Roy does now. Stop. Rushing. Prospects.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Galchenyuk and Kotkaniemi both had more talent when drafted than Roy does now. Stop. Rushing. Prospects.

Is that really the case?

 

[Belial]

If Mark Stone and Brayden Point can go back to junior after breaking out draft+1, there's no reason Roy can't either.

Point had an ok season in his draft+1 year, nothing spectacular.

Roy just put up the most points in the Q...

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Galchenyuk and Kotkaniemi both had more talent when drafted than Roy does now. Stop. Rushing. Prospects.

You’re overrating draft status.

 

[HuGort]

continue.... Prospect Info: - Joshua Roy, LHC, Sherbrooke Phoenix (QMJHL), 150th overall

PM Bouchatd would been great player in today's NHL

 

[Wateredgarden]

Is Voracek a good comparable for Roy?

 

[A55P2]

I’m not of the camp that guys must be held back. I understand gratification delay, but when a player dominates their level and you have good coaches and veteran depth you can bring them up. Guys like Galchenyuk and Kotkaniemi didn’t fail because they were rushed. They failed because they lacked ability. If Roy is ready, I’d love for him to be tied to Wrights hip. Both IMO are ready. Let them grow together.

Yeah, my take too. I don't know about Roy specifically, but this should be a case by case basis. Cole Sillinger made the Blue Jackets this year and did fine for example.

It's been a whole shtick of this board since forever. Most think taking time to develop in lower leagues automatically amounts to better developelment. It's like a not so secret formula. I think this is often the case yes, but still should be a case by case basis. The whole debate is a bit caricatural for me, and I know some would die on this hill before changing their minds.

 

[Wats]

Point had an ok season in his draft+1 year, nothing spectacular.

Roy just put up the most points in the Q...

If you want an someone who led Q in points then even Connor Garland didn't make NHL at 19 after leading Q.

 

[SGHabs]

Yanick Lehoux seems like a good comparable purely from looking at stats, although from a completely different era (20 years ago). Was drafted by the Kings in the 5th round after an ok year and then exploded in the Q D+1 and D+2 year. Similar size as well. Lehoux never really made the NHL, my guess here is skating was the issue?

 

[Heffyhoof]

Is that really the case?

Hate to be the debbie downer brining in realism, but yes, and I can't believe it requires stating.

 

[dcyhabs]

You’re overrating draft status.

You’re underrating experience. Letting players dominate a lower league doesn’t have a bad track record. Putting players in a higher league at a young age often reduces upside as they play to survive instead of learning to play well. A year in the AHL didn’t hurt Subban, Pacioretty needed to go back, skipping from junior is a big risk. Let them grow.

 

[Vachon23]

Is that really the case?

Yes

 

[BaseballCoach]

Hate to be the debbie downer brining in realism, but yes, and I can't believe it requires stating.

Galchenyuk yes, he was 2PPG in Junior in his D+1.

Kotkaniemi no, he was overhyped (and I fell for it, seeing as I liked Bobby Smith a lot). Looking back, even in the training camp which had him make the squad, he did not produce that much offence.

 

[BaseballCoach]

You’re underrating experience. Letting players dominate a lower league doesn’t have a bad track record. Putting players in a higher league at a young age often reduces upside as they play to survive instead of learning to play well. A year in the AHL didn’t hurt Subban, Pacioretty needed to go back, skipping from junior is a big risk. Let them grow.

If playing Junior at D+2 was ok for Nick Suzuki (!3th overall pick), it probably won't hurt Joshua Roy, though winger is an easier position to play pro at than C.

At the same time, however, this argument is not just an automatic one to bring out for every prospect. Using it for our upcoming #1 pick is not as convincing to me at all.

Wright has a mature game, even if he won't be spectatcular, and Slafkovsky as a winger should not do worse than Svechnikov.

 

[dcyhabs]

Yeah, my take too. I don't know about Roy specifically, but this should be a case by case basis. Cole Sillinger made the Blue Jackets this year and did fine for example.

It's been a whole shtick of this board since forever. Most think taking time to develop in lower leagues automatically amounts to better developelment. It's like a not so secret formula. I think this is often the case yes, but still should be a case by case basis. The whole debate is a bit caricatural for me, and I know some would die on this hill before changing their minds.

Sometimes things are a shtick because you see them done wrong over and over. Generational guys seem to do OK eventually after struggling in the NHL at a young age but lots of others don’t. There is certainly a view, among analysts not just posters, that going to the NHL early leads to specialist players who can only do one thing well and bail on the rest. Defensive D who just bang it off the glass, pp specialists who cheat on D.

The benefit to putting someone in the NHL young is limited, few players do much before 22 or 23, so save the contract years and make sure they are ready. Bringing guys up too fast and getting them concussed doesn’t help, either.

Edit: Sillinger may have been OK this year. KK was fine, mostly, in his first year. The question is "will it help his career long term?" Dach played in the NHL at 18 and he has been less than stellar since. Based on stats it looks like it is getting a lot tougher to make the NHL young. Aho did fine as a non-1OA, but Lafreniere, Kakko, etc. look like they would have been better off in a different league. Could very much depend on coaching. I'd be pretty sure we wouldn't want Roy or Kidney being overpowered in the NHL next year, or Slafkovsky/Nemec, but Wright could be ready.

 

[dcyhabs]

If playing Junior at D+2 was ok for Nick Suzuki (!3th overall pick), it probably won't hurt Joshua Roy, though winger is an easier position to play pro at than C.

At the same time, however, this argument is not just an automatic one to bring out for every prospect. using if for our upcoming #1 pick is not as convincing to me at all.

Wrioght has a mature game, even if he won't be spectatcular, and Slafkovsky as a winger should not do worse than Svechnikov.

Wright may be OK playing in the NHL long term but I don’t see the benefit. He gets to struggle to put up meh stats for 2 years, gets blasted for not going ppg at 19 or 20, the habs burn years off his contract, he takes hard hits he hasn’t learned to deal with….

The main argument would be that he’s totally done with junior but it’s not like Wright had a truly dominant season. Sure, give him some games, but send him down if he gets hit too much or if he doesn’t thrive, like 0.75 ppg or something, not just surviving in a minimal role.

Admittedly a big problem for the habs in this area was their dinosaur coaches who destroyed young guys. MSL should do better, but I still don’t see a benefit to that 19 or 20 year old season in the NHL.

A bit off topic, but Houle strikes me as a Therrien/Martin/Julien type who pushes effort and does better with pluggers than skilled guys. Sounds like an effective coach but he may not be the best guy to develop top prospects.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Wright may be OK playing in the NHL long term but I don’t see the benefit. He gets to struggle to put up meh stats for 2 years, gets blasted for not going ppg at 19 or 20, the habs burn years off his contract, he takes hard hits he hasn’t learned to deal with….

The main argument would be that he’s totally done with junior but it’s not like Wright had a truly dominant season. Sure, give him some games, but send him down if he gets hit too much or if he doesn’t thrive, like 0.75 ppg or something, not just surviving in a minimal role.

Admittedly a big problem for the habs in this area was their dinosaur coaches who destroyed young guys. MSL should do better, but I still don’t see a benefit to that 19 or 20 year old season in the NHL.

A bit off topic, but Houle strikes me as a Therrien/Martin/Julien type who pushes effort and does better with pluggers than skilled guys. Sounds like an effective coach but he may not be the best guy to develop top prospects.

Why has no 1OA since the lockout EVER been sent back to the CHL?

If this happens with Wright, then he is not worthy of being 1OA.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Why has no 1OA since the lockout EVER been sent back to the CHL?

If this happens with Wright, then he is not worthy of being 1OA.

We only have two 1 OA Data points since the pandemic.
Latreniere who should have gone back and struggled.
Power who went back to the NCAA and benefitted from it.

 

[HuGort]

Is Voracek a good comparable for Roy?

Not really. Roy 51 goals in D1 to Vorachek 33? Big difference in size. Vorachek is a big man

Habs have 3 top pieces coming to build around. Roy, Guhle and Wright. Primeau could be another. He is having a good playoff. Goalies are a wild card, take time to mature. With Suzuki and Caufield. Future looks real good.

 

[Tyson]

Not really. Roy 51 goals in D1 to Vorachek 33? Big difference in size. Vorachek is a big man

Habs have 3 top pieces coming to build around. Roy, Guhle and Wright. Primeau could be another. He is having a good playoff. Goalies are a wild card, take time to mature. With Suzuki and Caufield. Future looks real good.

I would add Barron ad well.

 

[dcyhabs]

Why has no 1OA since the lockout EVER been sent back to the CHL?

If this happens with Wright, then he is not worthy of being 1OA.

Why have so few guys had good seasons young, especially recently? Crosby did great, but KK has the 46th most points as an 18 year old and he clearly shouldn't have gone near the NHL until he was 21 or 22. Hitting the NHL young was a lot more common the further back you go, less structure, less pressure, less to learn. 22 players with 0.75 ppg at 18 with only a few recent guys, including Laine who probably shouldn't have been there, same for Skinner.

You have 56 players over 0.75 ppg at 19, 162 at 0.5 or over. The 56 is 1-2 per year. 162 is 3-4 per year. This draft year is not stellar, so having none wouldn't be a stretch, and, who knows, maybe someone like Aho will emerge.

For Wright, or whoever the habs draft 1OA there is an argument but considering it's not a strong draft, there isn't a generational player, and that lots of guys lost development time to COVID, the argument to have the guy in the NHL immediately isn't great. Best case the guy does OK, but not so well that he worsens the draft pick and prepares for a breakout season, worst case he gets hurt or limits his game. Either way it burns a contract year. Sure, try a few games but send him back at the first sign of struggle or the first game he doesn't play 15 minutes.

I'm not convinced that there is ever any benefit to rushing players. Sure, there may be one or two guys who thrived young, Aho was fine, but we have examples of players who started young and tanked with the habs. What player ended up worse because he spent an extra year or two in the minors? Can we point to anybody who stayed in the minors too long and wasted potential?

Sillinger hasn't had a career yet, so we can't know how if it will help or hurt him.