Player Discussion Josh Norris C 6’1” - Part 2

[SpezDispenser]

Thank goodness he's dedicated to his training and working to strength his core as well as rehab his shoulders. It's gonna be so important to us if he can get to game shape asap.

 

[Mingus Dew]

I think folks expecting Norris to repeat his GPG pace are going to be disappointed. 30 goals would be a smashing success for a guy coming off the injuries and rehab he's been through.

The nice thing is that he probably doesn't need to score 30 if Tkachuk, Stutzle and Giroux are able to keep up their play from last year. Plus Tarasenko might get there depending on PP usage.

If Norris can give us 20 goals and defensively responsible play to anchor the second pair we'll be in good shape.

Hoping that folks don't crucify him if he starts the year cold (which I expect him to).

 

[HSF]

I think folks expecting Norris to repeat his GPG pace are going to be disappointed. 30 goals would be a smashing success for a guy coming off the injuries and rehab he's been through.

The nice thing is that he probably doesn't need to score 30 if Tkachuk, Stutzle and Giroux are able to keep up their play from last year. Plus Tarasenko might get there depending on PP usage.

If Norris can give us 20 goals and defensively responsible play to anchor the second pair we'll be in good shape.

Hoping that folks don't crucify him if he starts the year cold (which I expect him to).

It will be hard for everyone to get the points they want. We saw it with DBC last year being the second option. With Stuztle breaking out Norris will have less opportunity but I do think he needs to get to 30 goals/60 ish points to justify that contract

 

[Mingus Dew]

It will be hard for everyone to get the points they want. We saw it with DBC last year being the second option. With Stuztle breaking out Norris will have less opportunity but I do think he needs to get to 30 goals/60 ish points to justify that contract

He's not going to justify that contract unfortunately. We were f***ed the moment he scored 35. Is what it is.

 

[HSF]

He's not going to justify that contract unfortunately. We were f***ed the moment he scored 35. Is what it is.

Hopefully he can help us in other ways like the defensive side of the puck and has good intangibles like faceoffs etc.

 

[Micklebot]

It will be hard for everyone to get the points they want. We saw it with DBC last year being the second option. With Stuztle breaking out Norris will have less opportunity but I do think he needs to get to 30 goals/60 ish points to justify that contract

I think saying we saw it with DBC being the second option is a touch misleading; he was stuck playing with Pinto as his center, and Batherson was struggling coming off a major surgery.

Norris will be coming into a situation far better assuming guys don't get hurt five games into the season again. He'll have Tarasenko looking to justify his next contract, and a healthy Batherson on his wings (or be reunited with Tkachuk and perhaps Batherson or Giroux). Either way, DBC was not put in a position to succeed, at least at 5v5. That shouldn't be the case with Norris.

He's not likely going to pace at 40+ goals again, but I think he can still earn his contract by being a responsible two way center that can fill the net.

 

[HSF]

I think saying we saw it with DBC being the second option is a touch misleading; he was stuck playing with Pinto as his center, and Batherson was struggling coming off a major surgery.

Norris will be coming into a situation far better assuming guys don't get hurt five games into the season again. He'll have Tarasenko looking to justify his next contract, and a healthy Batherson on his wings (or be reunited with Tkachuk and perhaps Batherson or Giroux). Either way, DBC was not put in a position to succeed, at least at 5v5. That shouldn't be the case with Norris.

He's not likely going to pace at 40+ goals again, but I think he can still earn his contract by being a responsible two way center that can fill the net.

Isn't that pretty much what i said though? DBC played with our 2nd line players. Yes Norris will play with better linemates but he still won't be the 1st option. He won't get the same looks as he did when he was our number 1C and he probably won't play with the best players with Stuztle being as good as he is.

30 goals / 60 points while being in a more defensive role is pretty decent I think. Like Yorkie and Bobby said if you aren't the first shooting option going over the boards everytime its unlikely that you are getting 40.

 

[Mingus Dew]

I think saying we saw it with DBC being the second option is a touch misleading; he was stuck playing with Pinto as his center, and Batherson was struggling coming off a major surgery.

Norris will be coming into a situation far better assuming guys don't get hurt five games into the season again. He'll have Tarasenko looking to justify his next contract, and a healthy Batherson on his wings (or be reunited with Tkachuk and perhaps Batherson or Giroux). Either way, DBC was not put in a position to succeed, at least at 5v5. That shouldn't be the case with Norris.

He's not likely going to pace at 40+ goals again, but I think he can still earn his contract by being a responsible two way center that can fill the net.

We'll see.

We scored 259 goals last year as a team. What kind of an increase are we assuming? Maybe 5%?

So that's 272 goals for the team.

Stutzle and Brady are each going to take 30 at least, in my opinion. So let's say after those those two we're at 212.

Giroux, Tank and Kubalik are taking another what, 70, between them conservatively? 152.

Batherson + Pinto, assuming health, has got to be 40 on the low end. 112.

That's probably enough for Norris to hit 30 but again those are pretty conservative projections that assume a jump in goal scoring as a team (I wouldn't be surprised to see total goals come down along with total GA).

It's largely going to depend on PP deployment, I think.

 

[Micklebot]

Isn't that pretty much what i said though? DBC played with our 2nd line players. Yes Norris will play with better linemates but he still won't be the 1st option. He won't get the same looks as he did when he was our number 1C and he probably won't play with the best players with Stuztle being as good as he is.

30 goals / 60 points while being in a more defensive role is pretty decent I think.

What I'm saying is playing with second line players wasn't why DBC failed to produce (he still managed 27 g and 66pts so not terrible), he was playing with a rookie 3rd line center thrust into a role he wasn't ready for and a hobbled winger on the other side. Yes, he was arguably the 2nd option, but the 2nd option was really hamstrung due to outside factors. There's no doubt in my mind that DBC would have produced more with a health Batherson all year, and Norris instead of Pinto as his center, so the reason he underperformed can't really be pinned on being the second option. I'd also argue that he mailed for an extended period when the team looked completely out of it, again, not an issue with being the second option.

 

[HSF]

We'll see.

We scored 259 goals last year as a team. What kind of an increase are we assuming? Maybe 5%?

So that's 272 goals for the team.

Stutzle and Brady are each going to take 30 at least, in my opinion. So let's say after those those two we're at 212.

Giroux, Tank and Kubalik are taking another what, 70, between them conservatively? 152.

Batherson + Pinto, assuming health, has got to be 40 on the low end. 112.

That's probably enough for Norris to hit 30 but again those are pretty conservative projections that assume a jump in goal scoring as a team (I wouldn't be surprised to see total goals come down along with total GA).

It's largely going to depend on PP deployment, I think.

Yup PP1 deployment will be massive.

Brady
Stuztle
1 defensemen

are locks on PP1. Some say Batherson is to with how good he is on the PP. You pretty much have two spots left for:

Tarasenko
Norris
Giroux
Batherson

 

[Micklebot]

We'll see.

We scored 259 goals last year as a team. What kind of an increase are we assuming? Maybe 5%?

So that's 272 goals for the team.

Stutzle and Brady are each going to take 30 at least, in my opinion. So let's say after those those two we're at 212.

Giroux, Tank and Kubalik are taking another what, 70, between them conservatively? 152.

Batherson + Pinto, assuming health, has got to be 40 on the low end. 112.

That's probably enough for Norris to hit 30 but again those are pretty conservative projections that assume a jump in goal scoring as a team (I wouldn't be surprised to see total goals come down along with total GA).

It's largely going to depend on PP deployment, I think.

I don't see 30 as a guarantee, but I find it odd that he's the only one to suffer, why isn't he leaching goals away from Stu, or Tkachuk? Both got increased roles on the PP and 5v5 due to his absence, as everyone needed to fill the void.

PP setup will be interesting, Norris was money on the PP last time he was healthy, and we have better playmakers added to the mix now. I think he'll get the chance to be the trigger on the first unit again, but I also think we'll run 2 PP units relatively evenly which will eat into the top unit's production a bit.

5v5 is where we can, and should, make big gains. We were awful 5v5, with more depth and better D, we should be significantly more productive.

 

[HSF]

I don't see 30 as a guarantee, but I find it odd that he's the only one to suffer, why isn't he leaching goals away from Stu, or Tkachuk? Both got increased roles on the PP and 5v5 due to his absence, as everyone needed to fill the void.

PP setup will be interesting, Norris was money on the PP last time he was healthy, and we have better playmakers added to the mix now. I think he'll get the chance to be the trigger on the first unit again, but I also think we'll run 2 PP units relatively evenly which will eat into the top unit's production a bit.

5v5 is where we can, and should, make big gains. We were awful 5v5, with more depth and better D, we should be significantly more productive.

I think Stu and Brady may suffer. They also are the top C and top LW on the team who will be over the boards first everytime making me think they get hit the least. Of course injury can change everything but I have a feeling that Stuztle and Brady will be stapled together as they compliment each other well and both also probably want to be the 1st options

These are good problems to have and I think Norris was always projected as a potential 2C option on this team. The salary is a tad high but it is what it is. He can really help if he develops the intangibles of being a centre as Stuztle still has work to do there

 

[Mingus Dew]

I don't see 30 as a guarantee, but I find it odd that he's the only one to suffer, why isn't he leaching goals away from Stu, or Tkachuk? Both got increased roles on the PP and 5v5 due to his absence, as everyone needed to fill the void.

PP setup will be interesting, Norris was money on the PP last time he was healthy, and we have better playmakers added to the mix now. I think he'll get the chance to be the trigger on the first unit again, but I also think we'll run 2 PP units relatively evenly which will eat into the top unit's production a bit.

5v5 is where we can, and should, make big gains. We were awful 5v5, with more depth and better D, we should be significantly more productive.

Well Norris missed a whole year and is coming off of season-ending surgery. I think he's the odd man out in a number of ways.

Stutzle and Tkachuk only scoring 30 is them suffering, by the way. That's a 25% dropoff for Stu.

Norris hasn't really played with this iteration of the team (Stu the #1 C, Giroux, Sandy, etc.). He's going to take longer to get up to speed.

He's also thrived off a very high shooting percentage and that's liable to correct one of these days.

I'll be super happy with 30 goals for him. I think it's on the less likely side.

 

[Micklebot]

Well Norris missed a whole year and is coming off of season-ending surgery. I think he's the odd man out in a number of ways.

Stutzle and Tkachuk only scoring 30 is them suffering, by the way. That's a 25% dropoff for Stu.

Norris hasn't really played with this iteration of the team (Stu the #1 C, Giroux, Sandy, etc.). He's going to take longer to get up to speed.

He's also thrived off a very high shooting percentage and that's liable to correct one of these days.

I'll be super happy with 30 goals for him. I think it's on the less likely side.

Fair enough, he's been a high % shooter his entire career, and you can see why every time he fires off a one timer. I think there's a decent chance they reunite the Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson line too, which would have the effect of spreading out things out a bit, providing him instant chemistry, and potentially make defending teams need to pick their poison.

The players hit biggest imo will be Pinto and Kubalik who may not get any PP time, or top 6 time. Having Sanderson Chychrun and Giroux in the lineup shouldn't hurt Norris getting up to speed, I get that he hasn't played with them a lot, but more talent in the lineup will help not hurt, and they have a full training camp to get used to each other, the biggest issue with guys coming to a new team is learning the system, I don't see a vet like Giroux having any trouble figuring out where to put the puck for it to be in Norris' sweet spot.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

He's not going to justify that contract unfortunately. We were f***ed the moment he scored 35. Is what it is.

We could have bridged him, it was the responsible thing to do. Unfortunately Dorion wanted to make a big splash, a common trait in desperately insecure individuals.

I like Norris a lot but that contract was a massive risk and Dorion has a proven track record of being awful at handling risk.

EDIT: it could end up working out so that's good. No real reason to be uneasy about Norris' ability and commitment, it just a matter of his body holding up. If it works out it is a huge win for us: having two very good top 6 Cs locked up is a great position to be in.

 

[JD1]

I know as fans that we tend to over hype our own assets. But we've got a ton of offence.

Guys that can pay claim to being on PP1 and likely would be on many teams

Chabot
Chychrun
Sanderson

Stuetzle
Norris
Tkachuk
TaraSENko
Batherson
Giroux

That's 9 guys, any combo of which could be a top 10 PP.

And to me, I'm not sure it matters how they mix up that top 6F group. There's pros and cons every way you do it.

I don't buy Norris taking all this time to get up to speed either. He's probably skating now, he's got camp, and then preseason before we get going. Sure he's been off a while but half the league has been off since April.

I think balancing PP time is going to be a challenge but it's great having 9 guys that all belong on a PP1. Christ 2 years ago our best guy on pp2 might have been Colin White.

I'd go with Norris as the shooter on PP 1 until he loses the spot. Which he may not lose

 

[Mingus Dew]

Fair enough, he's been a high % shooter his entire career, and you can see why every time he fires off a one timer. I think there's a decent chance they reunite the Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson line too, which would have the effect of spreading out things out a bit, providing him instant chemistry, and potentially make defending teams need to pick their poison.

The players hit biggest imo will be Pinto and Kubalik who may not get any PP time, or top 6 time. Having Sanderson Chychrun and Giroux in the lineup shouldn't hurt Norris getting up to speed, I get that he hasn't played with them a lot, but more talent in the lineup will help not hurt, and they have a full training camp to get used to each other, the biggest issue with guys coming to a new team is learning the system, I don't see a vet like Giroux having any trouble figuring out where to put the puck for it to be in Norris' sweet spot.

Yeah this is all fair.

I was listening to Coming in Hot and they mentioned that Norris and Tarasenko should not play together. If Norris starts cold then Tarasenko will pout and I think there's a decent chance of that happening.

I want to see:

Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson
Giroux-Stutzle-Tarasenko

 

[Icelevel]

If he’s healthy he should get 30. If he’s not healthy he shouldn’t be playing.

 

[aragorn]

The top line should stay together given how well they played together last yr & with Norris & especially Batherson Tarasenko will get plenty of opportunities to score so will Norris. If Sokolov can turn himself into more of a playmaker he could help this 3rd line produce pts, both Pinto & Kubalik can score, but they need someone to get them the puck & hopefully that's Sokolov because it certainly isn't Joseph & Joseph is who Sokolov needs to beat out. Smejkal is a wild card, not sure what to expect from him, but inserting Imama on LW would make this team pretty tough. With a surprise 40 pt season in Belleville last yr Guennette should hopefully take another big step forward on D this yr.

Tkachuk - Stutzle - Giroux
Tarasenko - Norris - Batherson
Kubalik - Pinto - Sokolov
Kelly - Kastelic - MacEwen/Joseph

Chabot - Chychrun
Sanderson - Zub
Brannstrom - Hamonic/JBD

Korpisalo - Forsberg

Depth:
Ostapchuk - Greig - Boucher
Crookshank - Jarventie - Reinhardt
Imama - Smejkal - Highmore/Currie

Larsson - Guennette
Kleven - Thompson
Heatherington - Matinpalo/Sebrango

Sogaard - Merilainen/Mandolese

 

[OD99]

He's not going to justify that contract unfortunately. We were f***ed the moment he scored 35. Is what it is.

Oh ye of little faith!

He is a natural sniper who scores by reading the play and having a great release to go along with top notch accuracy.

He will be the trigger man on the top PP unit and will score at least 30. We could have two 40 goal C with him and Stu - amazing. Don't forget his 35 goals came in only 66 games.

I am complete broken record on this topic but Norris being around for the full season is huge. The guy is extremely under-rated.

 

[bicboi64]

If he’s healthy he should get 30. If he’s not healthy he shouldn’t be playing.

If he can't take a faceoff without discomfort, don't have him play. Can't risk any long term damage to him and having Giroux take face offs isn't a sustainable solution. At that point, we might as well make Norris into a winger

 

[SpezDispenser]

He's not going to justify that contract unfortunately. We were f***ed the moment he scored 35. Is what it is.

I disagree. Really underrated 2 way game, elite level shot, really strong off ice routines apparently. He'll be on the left side sniping goals on the pp for a long time, it's the other things that'll make his contract look good.

Oh ye of little faith!

He is a natural sniper who scores by reading the play and having a great release to go along with top notch accuracy.

He will be the trigger man on the top PP unit and will score at least 30. We could have two 40 goal C with him and Stu - amazing. Don't forget his 35 goals came in only 66 games.

I am complete broken record on this topic but Norris being around for the full season is huge. The guy is extremely under-rated.

I'd even say more that huge, it's integral to our success.

 

[DylanSensFan]

He's not going to justify that contract unfortunately. We were f***ed the moment he scored 35. Is what it is.

I feel like Norris will surprise this season. I'd bet he's chomping at the bit. With healthy shoulders he could get close to 30.

 

[JD1]

If he can't take a faceoff without discomfort, don't have him play. Can't risk any long term damage to him and having Giroux take face offs isn't a sustainable solution. At that point, we might as well make Norris into a winger

Lol. Giroux took over 1200 faceoffs last year and won over 58% of them. Him taking faceoffs is a sustainable solution as long as he wears a Sens jersey.

The problem with Norris not being able to take draws is it limits your top 6 configurations. Stuetzle took less than 500 draws and won only 41% of them. I expect him to get better and he's so damn competitive it probably gnawed at him all summer but we can't have Giroux take draws for both of them.

 

[Dionysus]

Lol. Giroux took over 1200 faceoffs last year and won over 58% of them. Him taking faceoffs is a sustainable solution as long as he wears a Sens jersey.

The problem with Norris not being able to take draws is it limits your top 6 configurations. Stuetzle took less than 500 draws and won only 41% of them. I expect him to get better and he's so damn competitive it probably gnawed at him all summer but we can't have Giroux take draws for both of them.

Chucky can take draws and is pretty good ad well. Lots of options in the top 6 for taking faceoffs.