Player Discussion Josh Norris C 6’1” - Part 2

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Regardless of who is responsible or how this played out or whatever, what a bad look for the team yet again. This team just never drops the ball on having drama, that's for sure.

 

[ksens]

So let's say we force him to take the surgery option back in late October. Now you have an angry player who wasn't given a voice in his own medical care, and his season is still likely over. The only difference is that he would have been back ready to play by late April as opposed to July as will be the case now.

By going the rehab route we listened to our player, gave him every chance to play this season, and he now heads to surgery knowing that it is the only possible option.

The only way that pressing our case on surgery would have made sense is if we were a strong Cup contender, and getting surgery in October might have meant getting him back in time for round two of the playoffs. Even then, though, I'm not sure we want to do that. Again, Buffalo gave a master class in how NOT to deal with an injured player. We gave our player the freedom to choose his own path for care and treatment, and now he knows that the club has his back no matter what. Disappointing outcome, absolutely, but I'm fine with the process.

Nice strawman. Who here is saying "the club should have forced him to have surgery"? Nobody.

The club shouldn't have rushed him back into the lineup when he was clearly not healthy in the middle of yet another lost season where the front office is desperately trying to save their jobs.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Desperation move backfired... HARD. What a surprise!

If it weren't for desperation moves.... we'd have no moves at all.

 

[armani]

This is f***ing asinine, many posters here saw it coming. By far the worst season, I expected a competitive season, the defensive structure has never looked worse.

House needs to be cleaned up top to bottom, the trainers/medical staff have been just as atrocious as management and coaching. Pathetic.

Apathy has set in, it feels like a waste of time to watch the Sens play. If Pierre wasn’t trying to save his job, he should’ve been in sell mode now and hope for a good pick.

 

[BondraTime]

So let's say we force him to take the surgery option back in late October. Now you have an angry player who wasn't given a voice in his own medical care, and his season is still likely over. The only difference is that he would have been back ready to play by late April as opposed to July as will be the case now.

By going the rehab route we listened to our player, gave him every chance to play this season, and he now heads to surgery knowing that it is the only possible option.

The only way that pressing our case on surgery would have made sense is if we were a strong Cup contender, and getting surgery in October might have meant getting him back in time for round two of the playoffs. Even then, though, I'm not sure we want to do that. Again, Buffalo gave a master class in how NOT to deal with an injured player. We gave our player the freedom to choose his own path for care and treatment, and now he knows that the club has his back no matter what. Disappointing outcome, absolutely, but I'm fine with the process.

To bad the team never had his back and said:

"Josh, you came off a bad, bad injury to a previous shoulder you've injured. You've put in the work with rehab, but you can't take faceoffs because you aren't healthy enough. We can't let you back on the ice until you're back to 100%".

If we were pushing for a spot, yeah it makes a bit of sense even if it was still very unwise. We are out of the race already, and have been for months.

That is the issue. Not that they didn't press him to get surgery

 

[coladin]

they rushed him back into the lineup to save the season because Dorion and DJ are worried they will never get an NHL job again.

even though the season was lost in the first month and there was no reason to rush Norris back.

No they didnt. The coach said Norris wanted to play weeks ago, and they waited another two weeks

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

But if your #1 C can't take faceoffs you scratch him. Period. Players will always want to play. They aren't always rational about it and it lies with the team to do the best thing for the organization and its players.

This sucks for Norris and hopefully he's 100% by training camp.

Definitely a red flag..
No idea what the testing was , what was said, what was the risk outlined.. all of that.. but If you can't take faceoffs it looks bad

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

No they didnt. The coach said Norris wanted to play weeks ago, and they waited another two weeks

they played him when he was not ready. they rushed him because they are scared for their careers.

 

[swiftwin]

Regardless of who is responsible or how this played out or whatever, what a bad look for the team yet again. This team just never drops the ball on having drama, that's for sure.

We're pretty good at dropping balls actually

 

[Alf Silfversson]

So let's say we force him to take the surgery option back in late October. Now you have an angry player who wasn't given a voice in his own medical care, and his season is still likely over. The only difference is that he would have been back ready to play by late April as opposed to July as will be the case now.

By going the rehab route we listened to our player, gave him every chance to play this season, and he now heads to surgery knowing that it is the only possible option.

The only way that pressing our case on surgery would have made sense is if we were a strong Cup contender, and getting surgery in October might have meant getting him back in time for round two of the playoffs. Even then, though, I'm not sure we want to do that. Again, Buffalo gave a master class in how NOT to deal with an injured player. We gave our player the freedom to choose his own path for care and treatment, and now he knows that the club has his back no matter what. Disappointing outcome, absolutely, but I'm fine with the process.

But instead of being healthy going into the offseason where he can train to build strength, and work on his game he will now have to commit to rehab.

Norris is still young player and the offseason is where these players can physically develop and fine tune their bodies to fit their game. Norris won't have that option now.

 

[swiftwin]

To bad the team never had his back and said:

"Josh, you came off a bad, bad injury to a previous shoulder you've injured. You've put in the work with rehab, but you can't take faceoffs because you aren't healthy enough. We can't let you back on the ice until you're back to 100%".

If we were pushing for a spot, yeah it makes a bit of sense even if it was still very unwise. We are out of the race already, and have been for months.

That is the issue. Not that they didn't press him to get surgery

Maybe he was never reaching 100%. Maybe he was always going to require surgery, but they didn't know until now.

 

[TeamRenzo]

Bingo.

It sounded like surgery was always on the table, even as recently as this month. Who knows, he may have reinjured it if he had waited until next season too. We were probably getting close to the point where if he didn't try it out now, the eventual surgery may have started to impact training for next season.

My issue is not whether he should have had surgery in the first place or not, my problem is that he returned to play without being 100% healthy.

Sure, he is autonomy over his body but the coach decides who plays and adding Norris back into the mix without being 100% is foolish and inexcusable. A dog with a damaged paw will still try to run, it's on the owner to ensure he doesn't and heals properly.

 

[coladin]

So let's say we force him to take the surgery option back in late October. Now you have an angry player who wasn't given a voice in his own medical care, and his season is still likely over. The only difference is that he would have been back ready to play by late April as opposed to July as will be the case now.

By going the rehab route we listened to our player, gave him every chance to play this season, and he now heads to surgery knowing that it is the only possible option.

The only way that pressing our case on surgery would have made sense is if we were a strong Cup contender, and getting surgery in October might have meant getting him back in time for round two of the playoffs. Even then, though, I'm not sure we want to do that. Again, Buffalo gave a master class in how NOT to deal with an injured player. We gave our player the freedom to choose his own path for care and treatment, and now he knows that the club has his back no matter what. Disappointing outcome, absolutely, but I'm fine with the process.

My friend, you are wasting your time. They have already made up their minds. And that is fine.

I agree with you 100%.

It absolutely makes no difference when the surgery takes place. The season would have been over or he may have been back for 5 games at best. Player is happy because he really, really wanted to avoid the surgery. He will be ready for training camp and the player and organization handled the situation perfectly. The organization gets all the credit for respecting the player's wishes.

People want to think he can back early? They held him out two weeks longer after being medically cleared. He played two games, he hit, he fell on the ice awkwardly, he took blistering one timers. Grabbed someone in a scrum, and it was an innocuous reach that tweaked the shoulder. You cannot predict shoulder injuries, as many here who have had them can attest to.

But let them vent and be mad at someone.

Regardless of who is responsible or how this played out or whatever, what a bad look for the team yet again. This team just never drops the ball on having drama, that's for sure.

I think you are wanting drama for something that is pretty straightforward.

 

[swiftwin]

My issue is not whether he should have had surgery in the first place or not, my problem is that he returned to play without being 100% healthy.

Sure, he is autonomy over his body but the coach decides who plays and adding Norris back into the mix without being 100% is foolish and inexcusable. A dog with a damaged paw will still try to run, it's on the owner to ensure he doesn't and heals properly.

But what if it wasn't possible to reach 100% without surgery?

 

[coladin]

How is it that everyone anticipated this except the team and Norris and the training staff?

And don't say that they didn't have a clue. Norris COULD NOT TAKE FACE OFFS FFS. He wants to play centre in the NHL but isn't healthy enough to take a face off? C'mon guys. This was obvious. Anyone saying different is a troll and simply gas lighting.

Was Zub at 100% or did he wear a cage to heal his broken face? Was that wrong too?

 

[bert]

My friend, you are wasting your time. They have already made up their minds. And that is fine.

I agree with you 100%.

It absolutely makes no difference when the surgery takes place. The season would have been over or he may have been back for 5 games at best. Player is happy because he really, really wanted to avoid the surgery. He will be ready for training camp and the player and organization handled the situation perfectly. The organization gets all the credit for respecting the player's wishes.

People want to think he can back early? They held him out two weeks longer after being medically cleared. He played two games, he hit, he fell on the ice awkwardly, he took blistering one timers. Grabbed someone in a scrum, and it was an innocuous reach that tweaked the shoulder. You cannot predict shoulder injuries, as many here who have had them can attest to.

But let them vent and be mad at someone.


I think you are wanting drama for something that is pretty straightforward.

You believe this? As someone who has had surgery the amount of rehab time absolutely matters. You have longer to work on strength. The point that Norris came back the season was already lost. Maybe not by the points percentage but the way the teams play was trending it was quite clear they werent jumping 6 teams and making up 8 points in the last 40 games. They've got worse not better as the season has gone along.

 

[coladin]

You believe this? As someone who has had surgery the amount of rehab time absolutely matters. You have longer to work on strength. The point that Norris came back the season was already lost. Maybe not by the points percentage but the way the teams play was trending it was quite clear they werent jumping 6 teams and making up 8 points in the last 40 games. They've got worse not better as the season has gone along.

Yes i do. He would have had surgery in November, and it is 4-6 months. He will have surgery in February (or sooner), 4-6 months. Either way, by September, Norris should be ready. I imagine this was Josh's rationale all along.

" I can have the surgery now, and season is done, or I can rehab and see if it goes away. Worst case scenario Pierre is I rip it anyways and my season is still done. My surgeon is on board with this. I have nothing to lose either way so my surgeon thinks I should give rehab a go"

What is wrong with this scenario? I struggle to comprehend all the rage about this?

I have had 2 shoulder suregeries. Unless it is repaired, nothing else matters. And as someone who has represented injured workers for 25 years, I have seen a lot of rotator cuff injuries that have healed, and some that didn't. But it has to be fixed, set, and healed, and he should be fine (hopefully). The way he hurt his shoulder tells me that, anatomically, something was always off with that shoulder...

 

[bert]

Yes i do. He would have had surgery in November, and it is 4-6 months. He will have surhergy in February (or sooner), 4-6 months. Either way, by September, Norris should be ready. I imagine this was Josh's rationale all along.

" I can have the surgery now, and season is done, or I can rehab and see if it goes away. Worst case scenario Pierre is I rip it anyways and my season is still done. My surgeon is on board with this. I have nothing to lose either way so my surgeon thinks I should give erhab a go"

What is wrong with this scenario I struggle to comprehend all the rage about this

You completely ignored my point. Of course you cant comprehend it.

 

[ksens]

Was Zub at 100% or did he wear a cage to heal his broken face? Was that wrong too?

Rushing back a shoulder injury versus wearing a cage to protect a healing face is totally the same thing. Perfect comparison. Did we bring someone back into the lineup with an ingrown toenail that you'd like to compare as well?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think you are wanting drama for something that is pretty straightforward.

Ok

 

[Icelevel]

How is it that us fans over here without ever meeting/talking to the player could tell this was obviously a bad idea, but no one in the organization who work closely with him could figure it out?

Or, and I guess under the circumstances this is most likely in retrospect, they knew he wasn’t ready and gave him the green light to push for a lost playoff spot. A spot they never had and were never going to achieve.

 

[swiftwin]

Yes i do. He would have had surgery in November, and it is 4-6 months. He will have surhergy in February (or sooner), 4-6 months. Either way, by September, Norris should be ready. I imagine this was Josh's rationale all along.

" I can have the surgery now, and season is done, or I can rehab and see if it goes away. Worst case scenario Pierre is I rip it anyways and my season is still done. My surgeon is on board with this. I have nothing to lose either way so my surgeon thinks I should give erhab a go"

What is wrong with this scenario? I struggle to comprehend all the rage about this?

I have had 2 shoulder suregeries. Unless it is repaired, nothing else matters. And as someone who has represneted injured workers for 25 years, I have seen a lot of rotator cuff injuries that have healed, and some that didn't. But it has to be fixed, set, and healed, and he should be fine (hopefully). The way he hurt his shoulder tells me that, anatomically, something was always off with that shoulder...

Bingo!

Yet people act like they know better than the top shoulder experts in the world.

 

[Cosmix]

Why are you assuming the Sens will do what's "not optimal" for Norris?

My meaning was it might not be optimal to let him rehab it until next season. The docs might think it needs to be "used" in game situations to strengthen.

 

[swiftwin]

My issue is not whether he should have had surgery in the first place or not, my problem is that he returned to play without being 100% healthy.

Sure, he is autonomy over his body but the coach decides who plays and adding Norris back into the mix without being 100% is foolish and inexcusable. A dog with a damaged paw will still try to run, it's on the owner to ensure he doesn't and heals properly.

But what if it was not possible to reach 100% without surgery? It sounded like the decision to have surgery or not back in November was a difficult 50/50 call.

They instead opted to try rehab until we reached a point where surgery would impact next season (which is right about now).

I'd much rather he try out the shoulder right now than wait longer, potentially jeopardizing next season, should he require surgery.

 

[Hale The Villain]

They pulled another Pinto

Fire everyone who was responsible for 2 of our top 3 centers coming back too early from shoulder injuries.