Player Discussion Josh Norris C 6’1” - Part 2

[Micklebot]

He also put up two other 60pt pace seasons after that one, with more prime time minutes… His rookie year form is what he settled in as for a couple of years. So, what am I suggesting? My opinion is that he was always a 1st liner but only became an elite one in 17-18. Do you disagree with that?

Kind of depends on where you draw the line for Elite. Was Giroux elite from 2014-15-2016-17? Or Scheifele? How about Eichel? All these guys were ~top 30 or so in scoring for that period. Is being in the conversation for top 30 forward in the league or roughly top 5-10% elite? And that's just his offensive production, he played a much more well rounded game than a lot of guys around and even ahead of him.

It's pretty subjective; there's no strict definition. Personally, I think reputation contributes a lot to peoples perception of elite status.

For me, I like to think of it in tiers (excluding goalies here), where a guy in the top tier also meets the standard for all the tiers below him;

Generational; top player or two for each position perhaps. There isn't always going to be one. Crosby, McDavid, tier. perhaps half a dozen league wide.

Franchise player; Many teams but not all will have one or two of these guys, encompasses the kind of guy you can build around long term, Probably on average one per team that meets this threshold though;

Elite: next level down, most teams have a couple guys that should meet this threshold. Probably about 75 in the league meet that threshold, so think of it as the next best 40-45 players after the generational and franchise guys are considered?

Top line or top pair caliber players. Lots of these guys around, 150 or so assuming you have 3 top line players and two top pair caliber guys per team.

Looking at it through that lens I'd personally have Stone right on the cusp of Elite and Top line for his first few years, you could make an argument either way prior to his clear ascension into the cusp if not outright Franchise in the 2017-18 season.

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

30-13

Does Josh Norris win the Cy Young this year?

 

[JD1]

You're a noted Stone hater though. Which only began after he was traded. This entire post proves it. Your opinion contradicts every statistical category including him being up for the selke. Everyone knows he was hurt in 2017. This post is terrible overall. Not even worth responding to. Pretty tired of the tendency of so many sens fans on this site that flip the switch on a player after they leave. It's very petty.

I'm not a Stone hater. I'm not a hater of anything really. I just don't think Stone was ever a top 5 winger in the game.

I don't flip switches either. You might recall I advocated openly to trade Karlsson because of risk of injury, took a lot of heat for it too.

Not signing Turris. And then Duchene being a much better player after we acquired him.

Bridging White. Actually even suggesting Norris might be the better player.

I'm quite comfortable with the opinions I've expressed on this board and in saying at no time imo was Stone a top 5 winger in the game

 

[Samsquanch]

I'm not a Stone hater. I'm not a hater of anything really. I just don't think Stone was ever a top 5 winger in the game.

I don't flip switches either. You might recall I advocated openly to trade Karlsson because of risk of injury, took a lot of heat for it too.

Not signing Turris. And then Duchene being a much better player after we acquired him.

Bridging White. Actually even suggesting Norris might be the better player.

I'm quite comfortable with the opinions I've expressed on this board and in saying at no time imo was Stone a top 5 winger in the game

Some people on this board are delusional when it comes to former players.

Ive argued with multiple people here when I suggested that Huberdeau was better than Stone shortly after we traded him. And ya, that didnt age well (as expected) on their parts...

We knew the answer before this season too before anyone gets excited....

 

[JD1]

@bert I'll go one step further. From the above post, I formed all of those opinions based on watching hockey and understanding the game. They were all posted in advance of trade events and not one of those opinions had anything to do with defending Mgmt.

But I sure took a metric shit ton of heat for them, some of it from you and in hindsight I was dead right and you were dead wrong.

You're a huge Stone fan. I get it. I'm not. Primarily because I don't think he skates well enough to survive even a modest decrease in his skating ability. A point I made many times BEFORE he was traded. In fact of Duchene, Stone and Karlsson I expressed the view that I would have kept Duchene. But you really need to find a way to have a different opinion than another guy without resorting to insults

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

!

I don’t think any team in the league would take Batherson over Brady if they could take one of the two off the roster. Not even Dubas.

Brady is the straw that stirs the drink here, and that affects everyone on the team.

In my opinion the only person on the team that compares in importance to our team as Brady, is Chabot. Two generals, the rest are soldiers of varying ranks.

the player that stirs the drink yet vanishes for the 20 games he didn't have Batherson?

come on man. Drake is just as big as Brady, even better balance and skating, likes hitting as well, better defensively, better shot, better hands, better passing, better hockey sense etc

Sure Brady is better in front of the net and more physicals. But hockey is played over 200 ft and hitting is always good but hockey is fundamentally about goals in vs goals out.

You're sipping the Tkachuk brand name kool aid way too hard.

 

[swiftwin]

Primarily because I don't think he skates well enough to survive even a modest decrease in his skating ability.

This is basically exactly what happened to Turris, and likely the reason we traded him instead of re-signing him.

Just saying.

 

[Ice-Tray]

the player that stirs the drink yet vanishes for the 20 games he didn't have Batherson?

come on man. Drake is just as big as Brady, even better balance and skating, likes hitting as well, better defensively, better shot, better hands, better passing, better hockey sense etc

Sure Brady is better in front of the net and more physicals. But hockey is played over 200 ft and hitting is always good but hockey is fundamentally about goals in vs goals out.

You're sipping the Tkachuk brand name kool aid way too hard.

If you say so.

I see what I see and like what I like, I’m ok with you not agreeing.

I don’t agree with your assessments of Brady and his game at all, never have, but it’s all good.

Just try and remember that your assessment of Brady and his game in your post, is your summary that you’re using to argue, not mine, or some set of agreed upon facts. As I said, I wholeheartedly disagree with virtually everything you post in regards to Brady and his game.

There is enough Kool-aide for everyone it would seem

 

[Answer]

the player that stirs the drink yet vanishes for the 20 games he didn't have Batherson?

come on man. Drake is just as big as Brady, even better balance and skating, likes hitting as well, better defensively, better shot, better hands, better passing, better hockey sense etc

Sure Brady is better in front of the net and more physicals. But hockey is played over 200 ft and hitting is always good but hockey is fundamentally about goals in vs goals out.

You're sipping the Tkachuk brand name kool aid way too hard.

What I am come to realize is that Brady is the type of player that won't be tilting the ice in our favor offensively, most shifts, but he will continue to produce one way or the other.

I guess his true skillset might shine in a long grinding playoff series (if we ever make the playoffs lol), as he gains more core strength

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

the player that stirs the drink yet vanishes for the 20 games he didn't have Batherson?

come on man. Drake is just as big as Brady, even better balance and skating, likes hitting as well, better defensively, better shot, better hands, better passing, better hockey sense etc

Sure Brady is better in front of the net and more physicals. But hockey is played over 200 ft and hitting is always good but hockey is fundamentally about goals in vs goals out.

You're sipping the Tkachuk brand name kool aid way too hard.

Tkachuk led the team in goals and points while Batherson was injured, as well as shots, EVG & ESP by a significant margin. Produced at a 56pt/82 game pace. Hardly a vanishing act.

Now, what was that you were saying about Kool Aid?

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Tkachuk led the team in goals and points while Batherson was injured, as well as shots, EVG & ESP by a significant margin. Produced at a 56pt/82 game pace. Hardly a vanishing act.

Now, what was that you were saying about Kool Aid?

Brady was bad in the time Batherson was out, the turnovers he was making were wild. And if that was Brady playing good than yikes.

He is playing a lot better now and there is clearly a difference when he is the 3rd best player on a line versus when he is relied on as being the best.

If Brady can't carry his own line or elevate the play of worse players than how is he the player who stirs the drink? That is the opposite of stirring the drink.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Brady was bad in the time Batherson was out, the turnovers he was making were wild. And if that was Brady playing good than yikes.

He is playing a lot better now and there is clearly a difference when he is the 3rd best player on a line versus when he is relied on as being the best.

If Brady can't carry his own line or elevate the play of worse players than how is he the player who stirs the drink? That is the opposite of stirring the drink.

And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a bicycle.

 

[Answer]

Tkachuk led the team in goals and points while Batherson was injured, as well as shots, EVG & ESP by a significant margin. Produced at a 56pt/82 game pace. Hardly a vanishing act.

Now, what was that you were saying about Kool Aid?

What is the point total for him and Stutzle for the time Batherson was out?

 

[Answer]

And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a bicycle.

He meant to say When, not If

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

What is the point total for him and Stutzle for the time Batherson was out?

Stutzle had as many points, but Stutzle scored 42% of his points on the PP whereas Brady scored 16% of his on the PP. Brady also had 10 goals in the 28 games whereas Stutzle had 7. Stutzle played 5 seconds more per game.

Not saying Brady was incredible or our best forward or whatever... but saying that he vanished is not true

 

[Answer]

Stutzle had as many points, but Stutzle scored 42% of his points on the PP whereas Brady scored 16% of his on the PP. Brady also had 10 goals in the 28 games whereas Stutzle had 7. Stutzle played 5 seconds more per game.

Not saying Brady was incredible or our best forward or whatever... but saying that he vanished is not true

I am just curious about their point total is all. So, their point total are the exact same in that stretch? Can you provide the exact number for both?

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I am just curious about their point total is all. So, their point total are the exact same in that stretch? Can you provide the exact number for both?

I answered your question. I'm busy, but here is an excellent resource that can answer any further questions: Ask Jeeves - Google Search

 

[SquidNasty]

Not going to look through stats or anything but just from watching the games I also thought Brady completely disappeared when Batherson was out.

 

[OD99]

Not going to look through stats or anything but just from watching the games I also thought Brady completely disappeared when Batherson was out.

Just from what the Devilish Buffoon stated Brady was scoring at a 30 goal pace while Batherson (and Norris for lots of it) was out so from that side he was doing fine. Add in the other aspects of his game that help the team and tough to say he completely disappeared.

I don't know what your expectations are for him though but IMO he led the team.

 

[OD99]

30-13

Does Josh Norris win the Cy Young this year?

It will be tough...Kreider probably leading the voting at this point with a record of 46-19.

HM to Brock Nelson at 32-17

 

[Yak]

Josh Norris Mic'd Up - Fun to watch

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Josh Norris Mic'd Up - Fun to watch

“Forecheck. Back check. Paycheque.” is the definitive NHL players quote.

 

[Yak]

“Forecheck. Back check. Paycheque.” is the definitive NHL players quote.

FYI: Actually is fairly common quote among NHL players. Even ESPN panel used it last night.

 

[cudi]

FYI: Actually is fairly common quote among NHL players. Even ESPN panel used it last night.

reminds me of Kawhi Leonard's 'board man gets paid' line.

 

[Yak]

Norris going to get paid tho! Those big bucks will make him want to sign 7-8 year deal!