Player Discussion Josh Norris C 6’1” - Part 2

[Korpse]

That means its not sustainable

I’ve said numerous times his shooting percentage is on the high end and I don’t think he will hit the level he is shooting at now very often if at all. It probably drops as the season comes to a close too. I think it’s reasonable to expect his shooting percentage to be above average though. In the 15-20% range most seasons is reasonable if he is shooting ~ 200shots over 82 games played and ~40% of those shots are coming on the PP. And back to my original point, I don’t think William Karlsson a player who shoots ~20% of his shots on the PP is an applicable comparison.

 

[BondraTime]

The 22% is likely to fall back towards 15% overall, but he should be good for ~30 goals a year at 15% pretty easily.

 

[aragorn]

If the Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson line can stay healthy they will be a dominant line in the NHL. They have the big tough guy to cause havoc in front of the net, they have the outstanding playmaker & they have a sniper who can wire the puck into the net. They have everything on one line & it's going to be up to he coach/GM to find the players to create another good scoring line. They may have it internally when everyone is healthy, or they will need to go out & trade for it.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Hertl just set the market

 

[BankStreetParade]

This kid is getting paid some primo $$$ in the offseason.

 

[JungleBeat]

$8M coming up?

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

He’s like Hoffman except good

 

[Adele Dazeem]

He’s like Hoffman except good

Blasphemy. Hoffman was great. Norris isn't a complete center (as of yet).

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

Blasphemy. Hoffman was great. Norris isn't a complete center (as of yet).

?

Hoffman had serious warts, his scoring ability was what made him a fan favorite

Norris looks like he will have that same ridiculous sniping ability, but is more well rounded defensively (and still developing)

Norris will be better than Hoffman IMO

 

[OD99]

?

Hoffman had serious warts, his scoring ability was what made him a fan favorite

Norris looks like he will have that same ridiculous sniping ability, but is more well rounded defensively (and still developing)

Norris will be better than Hoffman IMO

Norris is already better in just about every way.

He may get close to Hoffman best ever goal score season even with all the time missed this year.

 

[Xspyrit]

Forgot to mention how elite that PP shot was vs the Flyers. Very Stamkos-esque

Teams are actually trying to cover him

Norris - Stutzle - Batherson
Chabot - Sanderson

Could be an "interesting" PP lol

Hoffman had serious warts, his scoring ability was what made him a fan favorite

Norris looks like he will have that same ridiculous sniping ability, but is more well rounded defensively (and still developing)

Norris will be better than Hoffman IMO

Hoffman was/is more "flashy" but Norris is already better than Hoffman will ever be.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EweKkUOXIAAHWDq.jpg

3rd in ES defense WAR, can't see Hoffman making these lists, always had to be sheltered.

Josh Norris GPG is 0.56 this season, at 22 y/o. Highest Hoffman ever scored was 0.44 and 0.42 at 29 and 30 y/o with the Panthers

Not only Norris might be better offensively but overall it's not even close

 

[dumbdick]

Norris' numbers are getting pretty gaudy. It's time to accept that this guys is an elite goal scorer. Right up there with the really big boys.

He's a few goals short of passing Jason Robertson as the highest GPG pace of anyone drafted since his draft year.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Brady 52 point pace bad defensive player = 8.2 million

Josh 46 goal pace great defensive player = ???

I'm just saying If I was Norris' agent I could easily argue Josh is a better player and deserves more than Brady.

 

[Loach]

Brady 52 point pace bad defensive player = 8.2 million

Josh 46 goal pace great defensive player = ???

I'm just saying If I was Norris' agent I could easily argue Josh is a better player and deserves more than Brady.

If I was Norris and Stu I'd be asking for a bridge.

 

[Alfie11]

Brady 52 point pace bad defensive player = 8.2 million

Josh 46 goal pace great defensive player = ???

I'm just saying If I was Norris' agent I could easily argue Josh is a better player and deserves more than Brady.

This again.

You don't like the contract Tkachuk got. Understood. But we all know that's not how contracts are done in the NHL. There's comparables and negotiations.

Connor Brown has the same amount of points as Norris and is an even better defensive player. Therefore; he is worth as much as Norris who is worth as much or more than Brady.

Connor Brown = $8M AAV player?

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Norris' lack of assists concern me slightly, but that might be due to Batherson being out

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

This again.

You don't like the contract Tkachuk got. Understood. But we all know that's not how contracts are done in the NHL. There's comparables and negotiations.

Connor Brown has the same amount of points as Norris and is an even better defensive player. Therefore; he is worth as much as Norris who is worth as much or more than Brady.

Connor Brown = $8M AAV player?

We don't have to talk about if I do or do not like Bradys contract that is irrelevant to Josh and his agent.

What is relevant is that Josh is outperforming Brady on both sides of the ice and as a result can argue he is the better player and deserves more. And if he gets 40 those kinds of numbers are no joke.

Brady 22 year old 3 pro seasons at time of contract
Josh 23 years old 3 pro seasons
Brown 28 years old 8 pro seasons

Who do you think the contract comparable are here?

 

[Viletho]

We don't have to talk about if I do or do not like Bradys contract that is irrelevant to Josh and his agent.

What is relevant is that Josh is outperforming Brady on both sides of the ice and as a result can argue he is the better player and deserves more. And if he gets 40 those kinds of numbers are no joke.

Brady 22 year old 3 pro seasons at time of contract
Josh 23 years old 3 pro seasons
Brown 28 years old 8 pro seasons

Who do you think the contract comparable are here?

I would really like to see a full 82 games to see how much they really would be doing.

Pace is good, but we know that a season has ups and downs.

What is sure, there is not a lots of down when it come to Norris's goal scoring pace. He will sign a good contract. probably around 7M AAV if not more.

Not a knock on Brady because I understand his role, but he has only 7 pts on the PP, all other 4 PP1 guy have 10+. Even White is near him with 5 pts in 12 games.

 

[Xspyrit]

If I was Norris and Stu I'd be asking for a bridge.

Don't mortgage your career guys, don't make the same mistake as Chabot, Tkachuk and Batherson

A bridge would allow a period of time to see if ownership/management can really provide them the proper coaching staff and support personnel to become a serious competitive NHL team.

I mean, if we're not at least very close to the playoffs next year, that'd be a miracle if a guy like Chabot is not asking for a trade

 

[Loach]

Don't mortgage your career guys, don't make the same mistake as Chabot, Tkachuk and Batherson

A bridge would allow a period of time to see if ownership/management can really provide them the proper coaching staff and support personnel to become a serious competitive NHL team.

I mean, if we're not at least very close to the playoffs next year, that'd be a miracle if a guy like Chabot is not asking for a trade

A mass exodus. Players ask out or only take contracts to get out. College drafted players stay in school to get out of the Sens habimg thier rights. Lol. What would Bettman do? Bahaha

 

[Akrapovince]

The Karlsson trade tree one day is going to be ridiculous.

Or maybe very short if our players are career long Senators.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I was praying for 6.5 for Norris.

Would be a miracle now to get him for 7.

Probably will cost 7.5x8

Ugh...

I think he'll absolutely be worth his contract, but we need another big time steal here and there a la Batherson to contend on a budget for a while(which Norris could be, tbh), DAMN.

One thing I will say though, Norris has shown the ability to hold on to the puck and make plays with it far better than at start of the season. He also has shown crazy bursts up ice with possession and retaining it well; all tremendous signs of legit top line C upside.

 

[Alfie11]

We don't have to talk about if I do or do not like Bradys contract that is irrelevant to Josh and his agent.

What is relevant is that Josh is outperforming Brady on both sides of the ice and as a result can argue he is the better player and deserves more. And if he gets 40 those kinds of numbers are no joke.

Brady 22 year old 3 pro seasons at time of contract
Josh 23 years old 3 pro seasons
Brown 28 years old 8 pro seasons

Who do you think the contract comparable are here?

I think your stance on the Tkachuk contract matters in this instance because you are picking stats that are favourable to Norris to justify the same or greater money for Norris.

Why not pick the most important piece of the team in Chabot and use his $8M to compare? Why not use Bathersons deal as a comparison? Drake outscores Norris, so why should Norris make more than him?

Brady is the Captain of the team and the face of the franchise, Losing him would have been to basically invalidate everything they've said they are doing. He''s also one of the few power forwards left in the game. His value goes beyond points and you don't want to get that....but it's a thing. The team absolutely paid a premium to keep him and that wouldn't apply to all players. Josh Norris agent is not going to argue for Bradys contract because everyone knows why Brady got that deal and that he represents the ceiling in terms of the teams spend on players.

For Norris, I think Suzuki would be the top end ($7.8) but players like Petterson could also be used as a top young scorer. It would depend on the term but $6.5 to $7.5M would be my number for Norris.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

I think your stance on the Tkachuk contract matters in this instance because you are picking stats that are favourable to Norris to justify the same or greater money for Norris.

Why not pick the most important piece of the team in Chabot and use his $8M to compare? Why not use Bathersons deal as a comparison? Drake outscores Norris, so why should Norris make more than him?

Brady is the Captain of the team and the face of the franchise, Losing him would have been to basically invalidate everything they've said they are doing. He''s also one of the few power forwards left in the game. His value goes beyond points and you don't want to get that....but it's a thing. The team absolutely paid a premium to keep him and that wouldn't apply to all players. Josh Norris agent is not going to argue for Bradys contract because everyone knows why Brady got that deal and that he represents the ceiling in terms of the teams spend on players.

For Norris, I think Suzuki would be the top end ($7.8) but players like Petterson could also be used as a top young scorer. It would depend on the term but $6.5 to $7.5M would be my number for Norris.

I'm not cherry picking stats though. I brought up Brady's points and Norris goals. If those stats paint one side as better maybe that has something to do with their actual performance?

Chabot is 25 and plays a different position while Brady and Josh are similar age and even play on the same line and same situations. To compare their performance and contract is natural.

Doesn't losing Norris also invalidate what they are building? Because he is our 1st line center right now, our best two way forward, and arguably our best power play weapon. What are we doing if we lose Norris?

And yea Senators will use Batherson contract but Norris agent will probably just call Drake's agent a dumbass. We got lucky Drake signed his contract before Brady. Can you imagine Drake negotiating his contract right now?

So let me get this straight our cap structure is that our potential 4th/5th best player on the roster is the cap ceiling for the rest of our talent? Like everyone else is gonna outperform Brady on the ice but will be happy to make less because he's the captain and his last name is Tkachuk? I don't think it works like that either.

 

[JD1]

I'm not cherry picking stats though. I brought up Brady's points and Norris goals. If those stats paint one side as better maybe that has something to do with their actual performance?

Chabot is 25 and plays a different position while Brady and Josh are similar age and even play on the same line and same situations. To compare their performance and contract is natural.

Doesn't losing Norris also invalidate what they are building? Because he is our 1st line center right now, our best two way forward, and arguably our best power play weapon. What are we doing if we lose Norris?

And yea Senators will use Batherson contract but Norris agent will probably just call Drake's agent a dumbass. We got lucky Drake signed his contract before Brady. Can you imagine Drake negotiating his contract right now?

So let me get this straight our cap structure is that our potential 4th/5th best player on the roster is the cap ceiling for the rest of our talent? Like everyone else is gonna outperform Brady on the ice but will be happy to make less because he's the captain and his last name is Tkachuk? I don't think it works like that either.

It's not all just about stats. Flip Stuetzle and Norris on pp1, both left handed shots, how does Norris's goal total change? Flip him with Tkachuk on pp1. How does that change their respective totals? This negotiation with Norris won't be as simple as "my guy scored xx goals, pay up" because the entire pp was structured for him to score.