Player Discussion Josh Norris (C) 6’-1” - Part 3

[Burrowsaurus]

This is truly a gut punch to the season. If Norris can't play 60 games, this team won't get a sniff of the playoffs. Let's hope he misses 10 here, open up some money for Pinto, and hopefully our vaunted defence (lol) can keep us in games with our Vezina level goaltending (lol).

With DJ as coach yeah one injury could derail our season

 

[Do Make Say Think]

No. Dorion's fault is that we have major cap issues, have zero NHL-caliber prospects, and haven't even come close to making the playoffs yet.

It is really astounding how people think about good vs bad management.

We have a good core because we got incredibly lucky with top picks and, to management's credit, they managed to lock up the core. Management gets full mark and it is 100% deserved.

However everything else has been mediocre-to-poor with a lot of wasted assets and (for now) a mismanaged salary structure which has us in cap trouble.

Bad management is when you have no margin for error or room to maneuvre. Bad management is when you can't sign an important RFA who doesn't have arbitration rights.

Dorion doesn't suck because he hasn't made any good moves. He sucks because he makes way, way more bad moves. Quality matters more than quantity, but at some point you cross a threshold where that isn't true and the amount of bad quantity does hinder the good quality's ability to have a larger impact on the outcome.

 

[Xspyrit]

It is really astounding how people think about good vs bad management.

We have a good core because we got incredibly lucky with top picks and, to management's credit, they managed to lock up the core. Management gets full mark and it is 100% deserved.

However everything else has been mediocre-to-poor with a lot of wasted assets and (for now) a mismanaged salary structure which has us in cap trouble.

Bad management is when you have no margin for error or room to maneuvre. Bad management is when you can't sign an important RFA who doesn't have arbitration rights.

Dorion doesn't suck because he hasn't made any good moves. He sucks because he makes way, way more bad moves. Quality matters more than quantity, but at some point you cross a threshold where that isn't true and the amount of bad quantity does hinder the good quality's ability to have a larger impact on the outcome.

Good luck explaining that to some, I have tried for years.

1) Yes we have Stutzle, Norris, Sogaard and Ostapchuk but we traded a 3 times Norris winner to get it and depended on :

- The Sharks falling apart faster than expected
- The Rangers and Kings to not draft Stutzle
- Required to move up using a 2nd and 3rd round pick to draft Sogaard
- Norris being better than the Sens themselves expected

2) Yes we have Tkachuk and thankfully they didn't draft Zadina over him but it also required the Habs to stupidly draft Kotkaniemi

4) Yes we have Batherson and he was one of our best draft picks in recent history but he was actually drafted BEFORE the rebuild. We can credit Dorion sure but the guy at the head of the Sens drafting, Trent Mann, was brought in by Bryan Murray in 2011

5) Yes we have Giroux but he is 35 y/o and we haven't made the playoffs yet. It required him to be tied with the Ottawa area

6) Yes we have Pinto but he is not even signed right now... It was a great pick though so full credit to them

7) Yes we have Greig but we traded a high end 3rd line Center to get him (Pageau). We also drafted Kleven with the return from that trade. Thanks to shrewd drafting here, this could end up the 2nd best trade in Dorion's era

8) We also have Jarventie who looks promising but after a FULL 6 years rebuild, is that all we have left in terms of promising forwards? As we haven't made the playoffs yet, we should still have a pretty good prospect pool like the Devils or Sabres for example.

9) Yes we have Chabot but Murray was still the GM when he was drafted

10) Yes we have Chychrun but we paid 12th OA and two 2nds to get him. This is one of Dorion's best moves though, he just needs to stay healthy and extend with us to a reasonable contract

11) Yes we have Sanderson and this is one of the best Sens picks. Not a big reach but it took balls to take him 5th OA so full credit to them

12) Yes we have Zub, this was another of Dorion's best moves

13) Yes we have Brannstrom but we had to trade a 26 y/o Selke level PPG Winger to get him

14) Forsberg and Korpsilo, I like that duo, there's potential there. Great picks up by Dorion


Our whole rebuild is built on :

- Karlsson and Pageau trades (great returns, great drafting for what was elite/great pieces)
- Tkachuk and Sanderson selections (didn't screw up with 4th and 5th OA picks)
- Good drafting in Batherson and Pinto
- Getting Giroux, Zub, Forsberg and Korpisalo for basically nothing (UFAs + waiver claim)

Now if you look at Zibanejad, Duchene, Gustavsson, Boucher, Stepan and all the other stuff, that's where it gets ugly

 

[L'Aveuglette]

People who think we can make the playoffs without our #2C and best PP shot haven't really been paying attention to how competitive our division is this season.

In order to push past the few teams ahead of us, as well as beat upcoming teams like Detroit and Buffalo, we need all hands on deck to even sneak into the post-season. And if we start the year without both Norris and Pinto, our chances go down even further.

 

[JD1]

Good luck explaining that to some, I have tried for years.

1) Yes we have Stutzle, Norris, Sogaard and Ostapchuk but we traded a 3 times Norris winner to get it and depended on :

- The Sharks falling apart faster than expected
- The Rangers and Kings to not draft Stutzle
- Required to move up using a 2nd and 3rd round pick to draft Sogaard
- Norris being better than the Sens themselves expected

2) Yes we have Tkachuk and thankfully they didn't draft Zadina over him but it also required the Habs to stupidly draft Kotkaniemi

4) Yes we have Batherson and he was one of our best draft picks in recent history but he was actually drafted BEFORE the rebuild. We can credit Dorion sure but the guy at the head of the Sens drafting, Trent Mann, was brought in by Bryan Murray in 2011

5) Yes we have Giroux but he is 35 y/o and we haven't made the playoffs yet. It required him to be tied with the Ottawa area

6) Yes we have Pinto but he is not even signed right now... It was a great pick though so full credit to them

7) Yes we have Greig but we traded a high end 3rd line Center to get him (Pageau). We also drafted Kleven with the return from that trade. Thanks to shrewd drafting here, this could end up the 2nd best trade in Dorion's era

8) We also have Jarventie who looks promising but after a FULL 6 years rebuild, is that all we have left in terms of promising forwards? As we haven't made the playoffs yet, we should still have a pretty good prospect pool like the Devils or Sabres for example.

9) Yes we have Chabot but Murray was still the GM when he was drafted

10) Yes we have Chychrun but we paid 12th OA and two 2nds to get him. This is one of Dorion's best moves though, he just needs to stay healthy and extend with us to a reasonable contract

11) Yes we have Sanderson and this is one of the best Sens picks. Not a big reach but it took balls to take him 5th OA so full credit to them

12) Yes we have Zub, this was another of Dorion's best moves

13) Yes we have Brannstrom but we had to trade a 26 y/o Selke level PPG Winger to get him

14) Forsberg and Korpsilo, I like that duo, there's potential there. Great picks up by Dorion


Our whole rebuild is built on :

- Karlsson and Pageau trades (great returns, great drafting for what was elite/great pieces)
- Tkachuk and Sanderson selections (didn't screw up with 4th and 5th OA picks)
- Good drafting in Batherson and Pinto
- Getting Giroux, Zub, Forsberg and Korpisalo for basically nothing (UFAs + waiver claim)

Now if you look at Zibanejad, Duchene, Gustavsson, Boucher, Stepan and all the other stuff, that's where it gets ugly

You know what I've been trying to explain for years?

Everything you do, from a draft pick to a trade to standing pat and doing nothing has a range of possible outcomes

When positive outcomes are attributed to luck and negative outcomes attributed to incompetency, you've kinda lost the plot.

 

[swiftwin]

You know what I've been trying to explain for years?

Everything you do, from a draft pick to a trade to standing pat and doing nothing has a range of possible outcomes

When positive outcomes are attributed to luck and negative outcomes attributed to incompetency, you've kinda lost the plot.

DING DING DING

This doesn't get more obvious than when they claim losing a high 1st round pick in the Duchene trade was incompetence, but gaining a high 1st in the Karlsson trade was luck???

 

[OttawaSenators11]

Team without Norris and Pinto is very mid to bad.

Dorion’s days will be numbered if we get off to a bad start, which is probably likely.

Will be bittersweet.

 

[StoicSensFan]

Team without Norris and Pinto is very mid to bad.

Dorion’s days will be numbered if we get off to a bad start, which is probably likely.

Will be bittersweet.

How can you say that after watching preseason? We looked great against the Pens and Jets when each team iced their regular season squads.

 

[Icelevel]

What’s the update? Is josh alive?

 

[BondraTime]

How can you say that after watching preseason? We looked great against the Pens and Jets when each team iced their regular season squads.

Because it’s the preseason?

 

[StoicSensFan]

Because it’s the preseason?

There's still positives to take away from those games, points counting or not. I don't think it's possible for this team to be very mid with our goaltending and defense. Not to mention our first line

 

[KnockHobbler]

Sens are preseason cup contenders for sure.

 

[BondraTime]

There's still positives to take away from those games, points counting or not. I don't think it's possible for this team to be very mid with our goaltending and defense. Not to mention our first line

Of course it’s possible.

Look at our division.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Team without Norris and Pinto is very mid to bad.

Dorion’s days will be numbered if we get off to a bad start, which is probably likely.

Will be bittersweet.

Biggest problems last year was goaltending and defence. We got Korpisalo and a healthy Forsberg plus a full season of Chychrun and Brannstrom and Hamonic properly slotted.

Not having centre's #2 and #3 will definitely hurt but I think we're in better shape than we were last year.

 

[Micklebot]

Biggest problems last year was goaltending and defence. We got Korpisalo and a healthy Forsberg plus a full season of Chychrun and Brannstrom and Hamonic properly slotted.

Not having centre's #2 and #3 will definitely hurt but I think we're in better shape than we were last year.

It's hard to argue we aren't better off than last year, even without Norris and Pinto, and neither of those guys are likely going to miss the entire season.

 

[SensHulk]

This guys inability to follow simple information is the problem here.

I don’t get fans who think and expect to get in detail information about someone else’s medical situation.

Its this weird expectation of invasive information, along with a complete detachment for personal experiences with injuries.

This is not a video game, sometimes surgery and recovery actually takes time, set backs happen, unexpected side effects occur, etc…

This is embarrassing from members of the fan base..

What’s embarrassing is our management team making proclamations on Norris’ behalf, like ‘oh he would play if it was the regular season’ which ultimately was wrong. If his situation is that fluid, maybe stop with the unnecessary comments. The fan base was right to be concerned from day 1 of training camp when he has a non-contact jersey and I have yet to see how any of us were wrong to question it. You don’t need hindsight or be part of a Mensa institute to see the issue that shoulder surgeries are complicated…but sure the *fanbase* should be embarrassed

 

[SpezDispenser]

This is where players like Tkachuk, Tarasenko, batherson, giroux etc will have some serious heavy lifting to do to help insulate Greig and whoever our 3c will be.

It sucks, but we have superb talent on the wings that can help. If f***ing Pinto would sign, it would help a lot though.

 

[BrawlFan]

I have no proof of this but my theory is simply that they are debating whether having Norris sit out 20ish games (giving them 8Mx1/4 season cap relief) would result in them being so far out of the playoffs. Or can they win with Pinto and Joseph and then squeeze thro this year with norris sitting out 20 games.

Basically I believe norris could play and this is a smokescreen while they debate their success in the following two scenarios for the first 20 games:

Norris
Pinto

Pinto
Joseph

Where you lose joseph for 82 plus an asset to get rid of him in scenario 1. And keep Joseph and the asset in scenario 2 but need to be above .500

 

[StoicSensFan]

Of course it’s possible.

Look at our division.

I like our goaltending and defense over them all, especially with Vasi hurt.

 

[Korpse]

I have no proof of this but my theory is simply that they are debating whether having Norris sit out 20ish games (giving them 8Mx1/4 season cap relief)

Norris missing games will give the team no cap relief. Him going on LTIR would allow the team to exceed the cap during the time he is on LTIR.

 

[BondraTime]

I like our goaltending and defense over them all, especially with Vasi hurt.

More power to you!

 

[swiftwin]

I like our goaltending and defense over them all, especially with Vasi hurt.

Yup. People are massively underrating our defense right now. Chabot is looking like his old self. Chych and Sanderson are just amazing, and Zub is as good as he's even been. Even Brannstrom has been excellent defensively. He looks strong, using his low center to gravity to gain leverage and box players out.

We just put up two solid defensive 3-0 wins in a row with our two starters.

 

[StoicSensFan]

Yup. People are massively underrating our defense right now. Chabot is looking like his old self. Chych and Sanderson are just amazing, and Zub is as good as he's even been. Even Brannstrom has been excellent defensively. He looks strong, using his low center to gravity to gain leverage and box players out.

We just put up two solid defensive 3-0 wins in a row with our two starters.

Too bad it's preseason and isn't real. Damn.

HFSens really has me questioning my place in reality these days.

 

[swiftwin]

Too bad it's preseason and isn't real. Damn.

HFSens really has me questioning my place in reality these days.

This place is an echo chamber of toxicity.

At this point, I'm going to let the team's on-ice performance speak for itself. I'm very confident, even if we start without Norris and/or Pinto.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

This place is an echo chamber of toxicity.

Why come here and post at all if that's how you feel.