Value of: Josh Anderson

[Habs Halifax]

I think he's a good player but his value at even 4M isn't there when you have to keep him for 4 more years.

Contending teams are all right up against the caps and count pennies to make sure they are under and have to get double retention at times just to make it all work.

No one is both of these at the same time:

A) Has 4M in cap space and willingly wants to spend assets for 4 more years of Josh Anderson
B) A contender.

Maybe 1-2 years down the road I can see teams like Buffalo or Detroit add someone like Anderson to round out their roster but right now, it just doesn't make sense for the majority of teams.

Term for prime years is not a bad thing. It's a good thing. Lets stop pretending that he is signed from 32-35+.

Anderson at $5.5M is hard to fit it. Flat cap for several seasons created this problem. But that don't mean he is not sought after. Habs are fine with him and we are really not shopping him. But we will listen to phone calls and that is likely what Hughes told Anderson when they talked. Hughes said what you see on the TV is not always correct.

Would Gorton/Hughes offer retention down to $4M? Not sure and maybe not. I would personally, but you won't like my asking price. So Anderson probably stays and we are happy to have him for his prime. We can decide to trade him in 2 years with a higher cap if we wanted to. He's not declining with that level of skating.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

With NJ out of the picture who is MON's target for Anderson?

 

[pth2]

Anderson has an absolutely garbage contract. Are the Habs willing to retain 50%? Then he has value. If not, there is no real value for him for at least 2 more years.

"Absolute garbage" ? That's kind of hard to find middle ground with....

I really should bookmark this for future reference for the day he's traded, whether it's tomorrow or in two years...

With NJ out of the picture who is MON's target for Anderson?

My bets would be Winnipeg and Carolina, though I don't expect him to get moved before the draft at the soonest.

 

[Haatley]

And yet his goals/82 games with the Habs is 24.4. Go figure eh. There is something you are missing and I'll let you figure that out on your own.

24 goals per 82 games doesn't mean anything when you play less than 70

 

[Habs Halifax]

24 goals per 82 games doesn't mean anything when you play less than 70

20/21: Played 52 out of 56 games
21/22: Played 69 out of 82 games
22/23: Played 57 out of 59 games so far.

He's missed 19 games over 3 seasons with the Habs. You have no idea what you are talking about because you are playing a stupid nit pick game.

 

[Channelcat]

Anderson kinda sucks. Ben Chariot does too but he still got a first so I'm not saying it won't happen but Anderson is a prime example of a player who everyone believes plays a certain way because he's big and fast.

He's a guy who is really good on the rush.

That's pretty much his only gimmick. Given his contract, a 1st round pick is all I'd see teams giving up for him. 1st+ if Habs retain.

Jeannott sucks even more though.

 

[Habs Halifax]

With NJ out of the picture who is MON's target for Anderson?

We don't have a target. We are not the ones shopping him. Fans are. Our management is not but they are listening to phone calls we get.

 

[Voight]

Doubt that. I think he genuinely want to keep the guy. Anderson is a rare breed, usually those kind of players are 3rd and 4th liner who can chip in 10-20 points a year and play 10-12 minutes to wear down the opposing team defense and inject energy.

Rarely will you see a guy like Anderson who (while he doesn’t produce like a top scoring forward) can play a top 6 role and be on the ice for 15-17 minutes a game and look good doing it.

There’s a misconception on HFBOARDS that if you’re not a PPG superstar you’re useless, overpaid and not wanted at all which in reality is far from the truth.

Anyway, to get back to Anderson. He wants to be in Montreal. He’s big, fast, can score and play up and down the lineup. That’s an efficient player and 5.5M is just the right price tag for what a guy like him bring to a team. He’s still in his 20’s and Montreal isn’t that far off from getting out of the basement. He’s a valuable piece to us and personally I don’t want to see him gone as he will be real useful in 2-3 years when we get back into the mix and I bet management feel the same way about him

& those kinds of players come cheaper than $5.5mil/year.

The problem is for any contending team it doesn't make much sense to commit 5.5 million of cap room to a player whos never scored 50 points. Yea hes physical which is great but you can get physicality for cheaper.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Anderson kinda sucks. Ben Chariot does too but he still got a first so I'm not saying it won't happen but Anderson is a prime example of a player who everyone believes plays a certain way because he's big and fast.

He's a guy who is really good on the rush.

That's pretty much his only gimmick. Given his contract, a 1st round pick is all I'd see teams giving up for him. 1st+ if Habs retain.

We already turned down a 1st for Anderson. LeBrun said he knows that was offered. And it's likely our management is not considering retention but they would be open to a 1 or 2 year cap dump instead of the retention for 4 more years.

I'd consider retention down to $4M due to the flat cap issue. Not because he is not a good asset. However, the price is pry away value. If it's not offered, we are happy to keep him. Nothing stopping us from considering a trade when he has 2 years or less. I'm not worried about decline in his prime years with the skating he has.

 

[Habs Halifax]

& those kinds of players come cheaper than $5.5mil/year.

The problem is for any contending team it doesn't make much sense to commit 5.5 million of cap room to a player whos never scored 50 points. Yea hes physical which is great but you can get physicality for cheaper.

Not when you factor in his size/skating/shot power. Pretending that Anderson is a readily available piece by looking at his points is flawed.

It's much deeper than his physicality. In fact, his skating, edge work, and shot power is worth more than his physical play. He's not really a puck battler in terms of that being the biggest strength as a big physical player.

Go look at Mangiapane and his cap hit/production. I'd rather Anderson by a wide margin.

 

[Haatley]

And yet his goals/82 games with the Habs is 24.4. Go figure eh. There is something you are missing and I'll let you figure that out on your own.

And yet he never played 82 games and hasn't hit 20+ goals since 18-19, which was the only time in his career that he stayed healthy for an entire season.

 

[Habs Halifax]

And yet he never played 82 games and hasn't hit 20+ goals since 18-19, which was the only time in his career that he stayed healthy for an entire season.

Missing 19 games over the last 3 years is not something to dwell on like you are. And yet, here you are with your flawed spin. You are trying to devalue on purpose and you are on a witch hunt.

Fact: Anderson missed 19 games over the last 3 seasons and his prorated goals/season is 24. You would have a point if he missed more than 50% of his games but he didn't. So you have a very weak point.

 

[Haatley]

Missing 19 games over the last 3 years is not something to dwell on like you are. And yet, here you are with your flawed spin. You are trying to devalue on purpose and you are on a witch hunt.

Fact: Anderson missed 19 games over the last 3 seasons and his prorated goals/season is 24. You would have a point if he missed more than 50% of his games but he didn't. So you have a very weak point.

he's a 15-20 goal/30 point guy.

It's okay.

 

[Habs Halifax]

he's a 15-20 goal/30 point guy.

It's okay.

NO. He is a 20-25 goal guy and 30-40 pts. Could get more if he played in a deeper top 9 and better centers. MSL keeps moving him off and on the Suzuki like but the results with Suzuki are better than you would imagine.

And his value is much deeper than just goals and assists. Good luck finding a big boy like this with that skating and shot power.

 

[pth2]

Not when you factor in his size/skating/shot power. Pretending that Anderson is a readily available piece by looking at his points is flawed.

It's much deeper than his physicality. In fact, his skating, edge work, and shot power is worth more than his physical play. He's not really a puck battler in terms of that being the biggest strength as a big physical player.

I wonder if people who don't see him play often just see him as a slightly better Joel Armia.... decent enough skating, forechecks pretty well, adds a physical dimension to skill players. That would explain the perception of his salary level and overall play...

 

[Baksfamous112]

& those kinds of players come cheaper than $5.5mil/year.

The problem is for any contending team it doesn't make much sense to commit 5.5 million of cap room to a player whos never scored 50 points. Yea hes physical which is great but you can get physicality for cheaper.

When you see that physically ~5 minutes more per game (out of 60) with someone who can also score and make plays with your best players then yes it is worth the 5.5m

Underpaid? No. Overpaid? fairly compensated? Yes.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I wonder if people who don't see him play often just see him as a slightly better Joel Armia.... decent enough skating, forechecks pretty well, adds a physical dimension to skill players. That would explain the perception of his salary level and overall play...

It's clear to me they are stat checking. I personally wish Habs fans would stop shopping him.

 

[SoundAndFury]

LMAO

Jeannot will make same this summer. There's no problem with Anderson contract

Jeannot returned as much as he did because he is going to be underpaid for a long time considering he is on 850k and really tanked his extension this season. And because Tampa overpays to get the deals for these kinds of players done, they did the same with Hagel.

Anderson would (maybe) have some value if he was paid around the same amount Niederreiter is (who still only returned a 2nd). That's his actual comparable - Niederreiter on a much worse contract. Jeannot has nothing to do with his value or situation.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Jeannot returned as much as he did because he is going to be underpaid for a long time considering he is on 850k and really tanked his extension this season. And because Tampa overpays to get the deals for these kinds of players done, they did the same with Hagel.

Anderson would (maybe) have some value if he was paid around the same amount Niederreiter is (who still only returned a 2nd). That's his actual comparable - Niederreiter on a much worse contract. Jeannot has nothing to do with his value or situation.

Why are all middle 6F around $4M-$6M range considered bad contracts? Do fans really think the NHL is a bunch of players $8M+ and if they are not good enough, they should be paid $3M or less? No room for players to be paid in the middle of that?

Why is Anderson's term left (which are prime years still) considered a bad term? That makes no sense. Why is Anderson's value only about his points and not about his size/skating/shot and things he provides beyond points? Evaluating middle 6F on points only is ignorance and it's just not accurate

Anderson's contract not a value contract. That I agree with but just because it's not a value contract, it don't mean it's a bad one. I see too many fans trying to double down on it being a bad contract. It's almost like Anderson is 35+ the way fans on HF boards are treating him.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Jeannot returned as much as he did because he is going to be underpaid for a long time considering he is on 850k and really tanked his extension this season. And because Tampa overpays to get the deals for these kinds of players done, they did the same with Hagel.

Anderson would (maybe) have some value if he was paid around the same amount Niederreiter is (who still only returned a 2nd). That's his actual comparable - Niederreiter on a much worse contract. Jeannot has nothing to do with his value or situation.

This is all crap. The only issue for an acquiring team is do they have the cap space this year and going forward.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Why are all middle 6F around $4M-$6M range considered bad contracts? Do fans really think the NHL is a bunch of players $8M+ and if they are not good enough, they should be paid $3M or less? No room for players to be paid in the middle of that?

Why is Anderson's term left (which are prime years still) considered a bad term? That makes no sense. Why is Anderson's value only about his points and not about his size/skating/shot and things he provides beyond points?

Anderson's contract not a value contract. That I agree with but just because it's not a value contract, it don't mean it's a bad one. I see too many fans trying to double down on it being a bad contract. It's almost like Anderson is 35+ the way fans on HF boards are treating him.

It's a bad contract because he is not a core player that removes any kind of flexibility you have with your core players. That's why Tampa is willing to overpay for guys like Jeannot, Hagel or Paul in a trade just so they can keep their core intact.

When you start paying your role players that kind of money you eventually become a bad team. If you look through the rosters of competitive teams that's just not the way they are constructed. Because you CAN get those players cheaper. And the example I have given, Niederreiter, is a perfect example of that. He is a bona fide 2nd line player on a 4 mil contract. And yes, contracts like his mean that "players in the middle of that" belong on the bad teams. If you think Anderson warrants that kind of salary it just means you don't math enough.

I mean ever since the Leafs got competitive they see Kerfoot as the biggest cap flaw/luxury of their forward group. Even though the dude is a perfectly serviceable player on 3,5 mil contract. But again, Jarnkrok's contract makes Kerfoot's contract bad. And when you actually want to win that's how you look at it.

This is all crap.

Surely. That's why MaxPac or Burns were traded for next to nothing. Guess they must be bad compared to Anderson.

 

[HuGort]

Talking to fans of other teams Sounds like the trade return Montreal would get for Anderson is similar to what they got for Toffoli last year. A first and solid prospect. I don't see Montreal trading him however. Anderson is good for Montreal small forwards. Plus another smurf coming in Farrell, and possibility another with their first pick.

Also like Toffoli, see Anderson trade value as high or higher next year this time. As cap increases and another year is burned off his contract.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's a bad contract because he is not a core player that removes any kind of flexibility you have with your core players. That's why Tampa is willing to overpay for guys like Jeannot, Hagel or Paul in a trade just so they can keep their core intact.

When you start paying your role players that kind of money you eventually become a bad team. If you look through the rosters of competitive teams that's just not the way they are constructed. Because you CAN get those players cheaper. And the example I have given, Niederreiter, is a perfect example of that. He is a bona fide 2nd line player on a 4 mil contract. And yes, contracts like his mean that "players in the middle of that" belong on the bad teams. If you think Anderson warrants that kind of salary it just means you don't math enough.

I mean ever since the Leafs got competitive they see Kerfoot as the biggest cap flaw/luxury of their forward group. And the dude is a perfectly serviceable player on 3,5 mil contract. And again, Jarnkrok's contract makes Kerfoot's contract bad. And when you actually want to win that's how you look at it.

Saying it's a bad contract because it's not a core player is not a good reason. There are many middle 6F contracts in the $4M - $6M range. This is not a league where you are paid $8M+ or if not, you are $3M-.

You are overlooking the skating/size/shot power for the big man. You think these are readily available which is just wrong. Keep looking at points only. Kerfoot is not good for the Leafs cause it's not the ideal part to have as a undersized forward in your bottom 6. Works for regular season but not playoffs.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Saying it's a bad contract because it's not a core player is not a good reason. There are many middle 6F contracts in the $4M - $6M range. This is not a league where you are paid $8M+ or if not, you are $3M-.

Just because there are such contracts doesn't mean they are good. Some teams are pressed into situations to sign them, some players just decline/didn't live up to expectations, and some teams were just stupid enough to sign them (Lucic is on 5 mil contract, sure). It doesn't mean that teams seek to have those kinds of contracts which you have to be doing to trade for someone.

Talking to fans of other teams Sounds like the trade return Montreal would get for Anderson is similar to what they got for Toffoli last year.

Again, a better player on a much better contract. Keep dreaming.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Just because there are such contracts doesn't mean they are good. Some teams are pressed into situations to sign them, some players just decline/didn't live up to expectations, and some teams were just stupid enough to sign them (Lucic is on 5 mil contract, sure). It doesn't mean that teams seek to have those kinds of contracts which you have to be doing to trade for someone.


Again, a better player on a much better contract. Keep dreaming.

Doesn't mean they are automatically bad either. I don't consider it a value contract but I don't consider it a bad one either. It's fair for his prime.