Jonathan Bernier - Player Discussion 2016

[Gary Nylund]

So Reimer sucked for 2 years because ...

A - Lingering concussion effects
B - Mentally thrown off his game when they brought in competition
C - No reason in particular, he jst sucked

Either way, it seems like it wasn't such a horrible idea to not assume that Reimer could handle the #1 job long term.

I'm rooting for them both, just like I root for all the guys on our team.

 

[eddieO]

So Reimer sucked for 2 years because ...

A - Lingering concussion effects
B - Mentally thrown off his game when they brought in competition
C - No reason in particular, he jst sucked

Either way, it seems like it wasn't such a horrible idea to not assume that Reimer could handle the #1 job long term.

I'm rooting for them both, just like I root for all the guys on our team.

You've been pretty even handed, I'll give you that.

 

[Paradoc]

Absolutely fair, if a goalie says he can play he should be judged on his play as if he's able to play.

Which tells us Bernier was god awful in the collapse too.

I'm not making excuses for Reimer at all. I'm referring to the previous regimes way of handling injuries and concussions.

Any athlete in their right mind would want to be out there, just as Reimer was. Any smart team would hold a player back (as seen with the new NFL concussion protocol which is still iffy at worst)

Reimer had a great October which tells me he wasn't suffering from a concussion. Bernier was obviously rushed. The leafs panicked and brought him back to early which cause him to aggravate his injury.

 

[eddieO]

Reimer had a great October which tells me he wasn't suffering from a concussion. Bernier was obviously rushed. The leafs panicked and brought him back to early which cause him to aggravate his injury.

Oh okay so again Bernier gets the benefit of the doubt. At least you're consistent.

 

[Paradoc]

Oh okay so again Bernier gets the benefit of the doubt. At least you're consistent.

Well, if you can't see that Bernier was rushed, then there isn't much I can say...

 

[zeke]

Yes, he was given a chance and did well until after the Washington game, where he was terrible and Bernier stole the spot.

starting 7 of the first 22gms is not platooning.

 

[zeke]

So Reimer sucked for 2 years because ...

A - Lingering concussion effects
B - Mentally thrown off his game when they brought in competition
C - No reason in particular, he jst sucked

Either way, it seems like it wasn't such a horrible idea to not assume that Reimer could handle the #1 job long term.

I'm rooting for them both, just like I root for all the guys on our team.

1. sample size
2. playing thru injury in a desperate bid to earn his job back.

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

1. sample size
2. playing thru injury in a desperate bid to earn his job back.

I don't think many people understand sample size... lol and it's a shame. Majority of people on here just look at the basic numbers without delving into them

 

[Daisy Jane]

I'd agree with everything you said. However watching the Leafs documentary "The Leaf", it's quite obvious that when Burke was here, Reimer was his "horse" as you per say when talking about him.

It was quite obvious that since Nonis was put in full charge, he wanted nothing to do with him and neither did Carlyle. As evident by trying to acquire Kiprusoff at the deadline of 2012/2013. Poulin (hated by many with the leafs) even stated on an episode of Hockey Tonight that Nonis and Carlyle and even himself didn't have "the stuff" to be a number 1 goalie. Is that Reimers fault that previous regime thought they of him? Makes me chuckle

no it's not Reimer's fault that they didn't think highly of him.
but it was up to Reimer to go out and kick massive amounts of behind and say "Screw you, I am." I don't like citing O'Neil a lot but in this case I will. (and Price has this in his locker). If you don't like the situation. Play. Better. If people think you suck - Play AMAZING.

Now - he (and bernier) get some credit that the team in front of them sucked massive amounts of crap.I always gave BOTH players that leeway. But even when the team was going down - neither of them looked great either. (and I mean outside of "who could.") but there were little other things.

on BOTH goalies.

it's one thing to be a #1 goalie. there are 30 teams. SOMEONE by default is going to be a #1 goalie. but I would think what we'd want is to keep searching, and making moves to ensure we have a stud #1 goalie. (a Rinne, a Holtby, etc etc). an sometimes you need to make moves and you need to take risks to try to get them.

but neither of them are "the guy"even choosing one over the other makes no difference because we should be replacing the one who ends up staying anyway.

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

no it's not Reimer's fault that they didn't think highly of him.
but it was up to Reimer to go out and kick massive amounts of behind and say "Screw you, I am." I don't like citing O'Neil a lot but in this case I will. (and Price has this in his locker). If you don't like the situation. Play. Better. If people think you suck - Play AMAZING.

Now - he (and bernier) get some credit that the team in front of them sucked massive amounts of crap.I always gave BOTH players that leeway. But even when the team was going down - neither of them looked great either. (and I mean outside of "who could.") but there were little other things.

on BOTH goalies.

it's one thing to be a #1 goalie. there are 30 teams. SOMEONE by default is going to be a #1 goalie. but I would think what we'd want is to keep searching, and making moves to ensure we have a stud #1 goalie. (a Rinne, a Holtby, etc etc). an sometimes you need to make moves and you need to take risks to try to get them.

but neither of them are "the guy"even choosing one over the other makes no difference because we should be replacing the one who ends up staying anyway.

I read this all. And the first thing that came to mind is... Did he not go out and kick ass in the 2012/2013 season albeit it being the lockout shortened season?

104 games played over his first call up, whiplash plagued and lockout shortened season and he posts a .915 save percentage with an above .920 even strength save percentage as a 24 year old. That's kick ass to me, especially as a 24 year old when this team has absolutely no defensive structure to them whatsoever. I like to judge and base goalies off of their even strength save percentage personally, but that may just be me haha. You would know as an athlete, if you go to another team and the coach has a favourite, the odds are seriously stacked against you.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Absolutely fair, if a goalie says he can play he should be judged on his play as if he's able to play.

Which tells us Bernier was god awful in the collapse too.

Yeah. 'rushed or not' - I remember I was arguing for Bernier that it was evident that he was hurt, (and he had hernia/knee surgery right after the season) - I have been quite firm since then is - if you wear the uniform you're considered healthy. If you are on the bench you are deemed fit to play.

Now. as a former athlete i DO know that the last thing you want to do is be all"ghuh. I have to sit out." especially if things are burning around your team. but at the same time as someone who has been injured and being an important cog - at some point you have to go "no. i can't" NHL players are STUPID. (I am still massively eye rolling at Bergeron playing with broken ribs and collapsed lungs)

that's why when ppl were like "OH MY GOD, Reimer got hurt again and he.." no.

especially now it sounds like Babcock/company are putting it on the player to let them know if they can play. if they can. they play and you get judged on it. I'll give credit that they are hurt but they should be adult/responsible enough to go "no I'm not ready" if they aren't.

regardless if rome is burning or not.

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

Yeah. 'rushed or not' - I remember I was arguing for Bernier that it was evident that he was hurt, (and he had hernia/knee surgery right after the season) - I have been quite firm since then is - if you wear the uniform you're considered healthy. If you are on the bench you are deemed fit to play.

Now. as a former athlete i DO know that the last thing you want to do is be all"ghuh. I have to sit out." especially if things are burning around your team. but at the same time as someone who has been injured and being an important cog - at some point you have to go "no. i can't" NHL players are STUPID. (I am still massively eye rolling at Bergeron playing with broken ribs and collapsed lungs)

that's why when ppl were like "OH MY GOD, Reimer got hurt again and he.." no.

especially now it sounds like Babcock/company are putting it on the player to let them know if they can play. if they can. they play and you get judged on it. I'll give credit that they are hurt but they should be adult/responsible enough to go "no I'm not ready" if they aren't.

regardless if rome is burning or not.

This I agree with to a tee haha well put man

 

[Daisy Jane]

I read this all. And the first thing that came to mind is... Did he not go out and kick ass in the 2012/2013 season albeit it being the lockout shortened season?

104 games played over his first call up, whiplash plagued and lockout shortened season and he posts a .915 save percentage with an above .920 even strength save percentage as a 24 year old. That's kick ass to me, especially as a 24 year old when this team has absolutely no defensive structure to them whatsoever. I like to judge and base goalies off of their even strength save percentage personally, but that may just be me haha. You would know as an athlete, if you go to another team and the coach has a favourite, the odds are seriously stacked against you.

I honestly can't talk about stuff I haven't seen.
a lot of the Wilson era for me is a blur because I was writing my thesis. so things aren't as "ingrained" in my memory so much as the shortened season on. So I don't argue from this point (only to be fair to others). In short

he kicked ass in a short season, when he only played the east. and he still had some issues of his play (that bugged me up until this season, which to me it really looks he's worked on). but going on what i've "read" (ie - 18 wheeler) and his collapse (as well as the teams) in game seven, it triggers a "let's see if we "can" do better. Again for me. I seperate the two. Yes without Reimer, we're not in game seven, but if Reimer can even make one more stop we're playing the Rangers. they all melted. They all get flack.

And again. I don't blame Nonis for trying to figure something different. I won't blame Lou for doing it either. Reimer (to me) has a lot of question marks. Bernier too. and they aren't even the kinds of players that you can go "I can't see why they get flack, because they REALLY are amazing." (Say a Crawford or something). for me - they are very very average and I don't know if they rise when things are really tough when they NEED to be - (and unfair or not - that also means when the team is poop. sometimes great goalies have to do that - is that fair. no - am I being overally hard on this stance - probably.)

I really try not to talk numbers - mostly because numbers make my brain explode (I have a learning disability regarding numbers. no matter how many times people explain it, save percentage and all that stuff, i can't grasp. You say it and I go. "what?" - so you'll note - I very. rarely. use them. and if I do - i use it as a comparative measure only. and I really try not to, because then I'm asked to defend them and then again I can't tell you what it is.I know someone will probably try again soon and I'l be proud of myself for like a day and then 'll forget again )


Reimer has a penchant for concussions (regardless how the Leafs treat it - again up to Reimer to say "no" not 'take one for the team"), he's not healthy for stretches. and as "hot" as he can be - he can also be ice cold. (as his winless streak from losing to Arizona - to earning his win v. Rangers last year). i don't think his steady. Neither is Bernier, who Kings fans flat out said his penchant for softies and his mental lapses. and again. his height. It BUGS me (AND it seems that he plays better with more work -so what does that mean when we get better and he's facing less than 25 shots a game?)

yeah - it sucks when you're not getting an equal chance - and maybe this is unfair - but that's what ti is in the pros and in business. and again i speak from experience. and as much as it sucks massive amounts of monkey butt - that's when you go and you play out of your mind. (and if the team sucks - you play so you can leave quite frankly). someone is ALWAYS watching. And I can comfortably say Reimer didn't do that. (and as i've stated in a lot of Reimer/Bernier opinion pieces - Reimer called out the team in December after the Florida game. (and he had EVERY right too. they SUCKED and he played relatively well) but he said there are no excuses, play better, be professional. And from that game until the next season he never won again. (that he started). he had two games in relief. And his mouth he said it. no excuses. if he was injured - don't play. I am not laying that on the Leafs organization because if Reimer felt he couldn't. he should have spoken up. Same as Bernier.)




(what I'd lay on the organization is for being dumb. but hey. most teams do it all the time in all sports. doesn't excuse it but that is what it is).

 

[airbus220]

All Reimer would have to do is take the ball and run with it, but he can't because he is a career backup who can't handle a starter workload and is mentally and physically fragile to boot.

Irrespective of Bernier, James Reimer is clearly not the answer in our search for a quality starting goaltender.

OMG Reimer played a havier workload than Bernier ever did, 11 games in 22 nights early in the season when in the same time Lundqvist played only 8 games and where is Lundqvist now. You can ruin every goalie just play him every game and 3 games in 4 nights which Reimer did twice will do the trick.

 

[Le Cobra]

I read this all. And the first thing that came to mind is... Did he not go out and kick ass in the 2012/2013 season albeit it being the lockout shortened season?

104 games played over his first call up, whiplash plagued and lockout shortened season and he posts a .915 save percentage with an above .920 even strength save percentage as a 24 year old. That's kick ass to me, especially as a 24 year old when this team has absolutely no defensive structure to them whatsoever. I like to judge and base goalies off of their even strength save percentage personally, but that may just be me haha. You would know as an athlete, if you go to another team and the coach has a favourite, the odds are seriously stacked against you.

well said. you can see the difference having a sound structure can make simply by his save percentage so far this season, which has been in the top 3 despite being in a team that is on the rebuild.

 

[marquee]

Zeke has posted game logs before but that's not enough to extinguish the false narrative that Bernier was anointed. Not only that, when he failed for almost two calendar years he was still propped up as the starter going into THIS season. It took a complete unraveling and an AHL rescue mission to repair his confidence to finally show people he isn't a de facto starter. He'll have to earn it from Reimer.

It's good for the team when two goalies are challenging each other.

Yes its clear he was basically handed the job. You dont trade assets for a guy than extend him if hes not your tender.

Reimer was burkes guy. Burke did a great job of marketing james in the summer of 2011 as he fit Burkes philosophy. Hard working blue collar kid who worked hard for his spot and as burke ran down our throats back than was the starter of the future.

NOt that it meant anything with burkes history of mediocre starters. Nonis took a chance on Benier...after that playoff collapse it was clear reimer wasnt their guy. never seen a tender thrown under the bus like that.

 

[marquee]

Reimer has had two solid stretches the one to begin his career and the lockout shortened season. Hes been inconsistent since than and thats not a debate. Hes had a good start in 18 this season but as we all know if he doesnt play at least 50+ how can you call him a starter.

at this point you guys are extrapolating numbers assuming how hed look over 60 games or like zeke cherry picking statistics.

 

[Le Cobra]

Daisy - ive been watching Reimer since he made his NHL debut and Bernier since he joined the Leafs. What i have seen so far is that Bernier has shown spectacular ability to make great saves, anywhere else, he would be a fine starter. In TORONTO, everybody especially the goalies are under a microscope, so his weaknesses will be magnified to death.

I believe Bernier is a capable starter, however, the times he has given up bad goals have been in his favour. Reimer on the other hand, has shown his character throughout his time here, in the highs (ending the leafs 9 year playoff drought) and especially during the lows (being pulled too early, the team collapsing last season, to being relegated to back up).

Im a goaltender too. We are a rare breed. Being a successful goalie on the Leafs is like being the top 1%. I can count on my one hand how many great goalies we have had in the last 30 years. POTVIN. CUJO. BELFOUR. I can confidently say that Reimer is the 4th. There's no need to look for an "elite" goaltender. Reimer is leading the NHL in save percentage. He played the Stars twice.

 

[marquee]

It's going to be an interest couple of weeks from here. If bernier continues his solid play this weekend when does reimer start next?

Hes in a contract season i could tell of mondays interviews he didnt want to come back as a backup. also surprised he hasnt been moved theres a few teams that due to injuries could use him. montreal is one example.

 

[Gramsci]

When Babcock gets the SA/G down below 30 again, Bernier will regress. Not hoping for it, just expecting it.

 

[marquee]

When Babcock gets the SA/G down below 30 again, Bernier will regress. Not hoping for it, just expecting it.

doubt it. hes seen a lot of work but they have been low quality chances.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

Daisy - ive been watching Reimer since he made his NHL debut and Bernier since he joined the Leafs. What i have seen so far is that Bernier has shown spectacular ability to make great saves, anywhere else, he would be a fine starter. In TORONTO, everybody especially the goalies are under a microscope, so his weaknesses will be magnified to death.

I believe Bernier is a capable starter, however, the times he has given up bad goals have been in his favour. Reimer on the other hand, has shown his character throughout his time here, in the highs (ending the leafs 9 year playoff drought) and especially during the lows (being pulled too early, the team collapsing last season, to being relegated to back up).

Im a goaltender too. We are a rare breed. Being a successful goalie on the Leafs is like bejng the top 1%. I can count on my one hand how many great goalies we have had in the last 30 years. POTVIN. CUJO. BELFOUR. I can confidently say that Reimer is the 4th.

hell no. just eww. haha.

reimer will never belong with that group (neither will bernier). dream on.

 

[Gary Nylund]

hell no. just eww. haha.

reimer will never belong with that group (neither will bernier). dream on.

LOL yes. That's not confidence, it's irrational over confidence.

 

[zeke]

It's going to be an interest couple of weeks from here. If bernier continues his solid play this weekend when does reimer start next?

.

weird question to ask.

reimer is the one leading the league in save percentage.

 

[Daisy Jane]

hell no. just eww. haha.

reimer will never belong with that group (neither will bernier). dream on.

he can't.

I mean Potvin - Cat
Cujo - Dog
Belfour - Bird


Reimer can't belong he's not an animal