Jonathan Bernier - Player Discussion 2016

[Gary Nylund]

You are both right. Cap space is an asset and that's a fact. You're right we don't needed it at the moment but that doesn't change the fact that it is an asset.
I don't think her argument, as I've read it is that we need it, just that it is an asset. Who k ows what could come up or when it could be useful to have?

I've said this about a zillion time. Cap space is a huge asset, even you don't know when you're going to spend it or what you're going to spend it on.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Yeah cap space is definitely an asset, having space allows us more options and we're able to be more creative on the market.

As an example, we could utilize the space to pick up a bad contract in exchange for a draft pick.

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

Reading this thread makes me chuckle.

The guy has a stretch of 3 good games, and he's back to being the Jonathan Bernier of 2013 and is deserving of an extension after next year according to one guy... Do people not remember how he performed all of last year and the previous season before for parts? Oh what a time it is to be a Leafs fan lol

 

[Gary Nylund]

Reading this thread makes me chuckle.

The guy has a stretch of 3 good games, and he's back to being the Jonathan Bernier of 2013 and is deserving of an extension after next year according to one guy... Do people not remember how he performed all of last year and the previous season before for parts? Oh what a time it is to be a Leafs fan lol

If it's just one guy, that's actually very good considering how many fans this team has. It's too early to say Bernier is back and much too early to talk about an extension, but there does seem to be reason for some optimism where Bernier is concerned.

 

[hfman]

Reading this thread makes me chuckle.

The guy has a stretch of 3 good games, and he's back to being the Jonathan Bernier of 2013 and is deserving of an extension after next year according to one guy... Do people not remember how he performed all of last year and the previous season before for parts? Oh what a time it is to be a Leafs fan lol

you're a little short on the 3 games part

 

[Daisy Jane]

So once again, you fail to provide any actual evidence to back up your claims or answer any of the questions I asked. You haven't explained anything. You spoke your opinion and said "I'll stand by it not matter how much evidence there is to the contrary".

I'll ask again though because you've avoided it every time I ask, what's the use of these cap savings you keep claiming are more important than a potential starting goalie? What do you think they'll realistically be used on?

actually, no - I haven't. I stated constantly several times here what I would do.

For me, I personally see cap space like a credit card. I wouldn't max it out simply because I could.i would always, try to make sure i had some for a "rainy day". What that would be - I honestly don't know (which - I have stated), but it would always, and constantly keep the Leafs options open.

Examples -

A: take on bad contracts so we could make proper/better deals (or accept better assets)
B: to give us moving room, if we want to take on a great contract with ease.
C: it gives us room if some how Pirdham and company makes a bad signing and we're not cap-strapped.

I also - to address something else -- do see players simply walking away as regaining assets. Now. skaters + goalies are different, mostly because the goalie market is completely bloated. No matter how good Bernier plays he would only at best get a 2nd through 4th round pick OR another goalie or a rehab project or something because other than Jones/Lehner most goalies don't go for 1st round picks. (and I personally wouldn't have given a first to either of those two goalies).

You brought up the KGM line. The reason why Burke/Nonis gets roasted for these is because 50% Burke's big mouth saying he was offered 1st round picks for like 1/2 the team, and then decided to go for something anyway and Nonis doing the own rental thing, without even attempting to do anything with the players involved. If NO one was offering anything (and Nonis said he tried their best), it wouldn't have bothered me - because again, we would be able to have contract space/asset space back.

which could go in getting more college players/Russian players like Panaran(sp)/Sosh/Zaistiv etc or anywhere else having the free slots translate.

I never said "I'll stand by my opinion, regardless of evidence to the contrary." I simply said, I stand by my opinion. If or when I am wrong on anything I always state that I am indeed wrong. I truly do not see how in this instance stating that having contract + cap space is an asset and if a player is claimed is not "free", you're regaining assets back, is wrong. If you want to say that losing the player is the least amount of assets we can get back, then you're right. It is.


I never said that cap-space was more important that a starting goaltender. What I have said is that I would not invest in Bernier long term. (I also would not invest in Reimer long term either). Both goaltenders have a lot of question marks, regardless of how well they play in spurts. They aren't consistent enough in being healthy (Reimer), being mentally capable (Bernier). I also feel, (as I have also brought up constantly) Bernier's height (which even though it is stated at 6'0 - I've seen him in person without skates- he is NOT 6'0) could be a detriment to the Leafs as every goalie in our division, and their backup is at least 6'2. That's not even going into their goaltending prospects .

So at the time -
I would have taken the chance to waive Bernier. There were only a few teams out there who would have claimed him (Calgary, maybe Columbus) who would have picked him up - which would have been fine with me because I don't think he's long for the team anyway. If not - he would have had more playing time on the Marlies (like longer than the 4 game Conditioning stint) and still working on the mental lapse/or just PLAYING more . We then could have made that Minor Tokarski deal (not saying he's better or worse, just a possible stop-gap option), or gotten Scrivens etc. to fill the whole and then ultimately this summer (Or as the rumours are bubbling that Andersen (or Gibson) now), try to get one of those two goalies - draft some (see if we can sign some college ones), and then make a move to get Bishop the next summer after that. (OR again - wherever the goalie carousel lands).

that was my opinion at the time, and that was the one I was standing by because it was risky and you stood to lose Bernier off waivers, but also - might not have, but I have always stated once you know if someone isn't long for your team, I would start making moves to move those pieces, not holding on to them unnecessarily. I say that about every player who plays for the Leafs.

It is looking like Bernier is back on the upswing now, which is honestly good for him, I am glad. it still doesn't change the fact that I hope Lou is trying to move him to try and acquire us a better goalie, because I think we can do better. I don't know with whom. And if this was the Reimer thread, I would say what ive been saying constantly - If I know that Reimer isn't going to be signing with us past Feb 29th and there is a market due to his steady play - I would be pushing him out the door, with a pkg of cookies in his hand and a "Thanks for the service, James," following after him. If you do keep Reimer, I honestly think that's when you start moving Bernier, look towards better options as a backup (or bring up Sparks though I think it would behoove him to have one more year as a starter for the Marlies).

If Bernier DOES stay and he turns out to be an incredibly amazing goalie, I would pleased as heck that I was wrong and take my crow baked with a side of humble pie. I honestly hope he does, because I would really, really like to be wrong, because I want what's best for my team. it doesn't change the fact that at the time my opinion was take the risk to waive him, what would change would be my saying that that would have been a really dumb thing and I'm glad it didn't happen. The theory around it however, I don' think is wrong at all. However if you feel that cap space should just be spent, I guess, then my theory could be wrong but like Gary, Lenny, Nith, King-Leaf, and Salming pointed out -it is good having unspent cap-space, regardless if you "know" what you're doing with it or not.

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

If it's just one guy, that's actually very good considering how many fans this team has. It's too early to say Bernier is back and much too early to talk about an extension, but there does seem to be reason for some optimism where Bernier is concerned.

Me personally, I'm tired of the drama of Bernier and Reimer. I've always stood by Reimer, due to the fact he has been home bread by the Leafs, been nothing but a good soldier, and when given the benefit of the doubt he has performed at a good level of play.

I've just grown tired of Bernier being given chance after chance after chance to really prove himself when to me, in my opinion, is nothing but an average starter in this league who to be honest, since his time in Toronto, has been more inconsistent than Reimer has been since he has been a Leaf. Just my two cents

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

you're a little short on the 3 games part

My apologies, since Reimer went down he does have a .915% which is pretty dandy. Take out the last 3 games like I said, and his save percentage drops to an abysmal .875 since Reimer has been out. Take it as you will

A 7 game stretch of .875 goaltending, and a 3 game stretch (3 games in a row) of near perfect goaltending at .975% and people are getting excited about him being back to what he was. What was he even? A goalie who had a great first year, and has been medicore ever since and abysmal especially the Calendar year of 2015.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Me personally, I'm tired of the drama of Bernier and Reimer. I've always stood by Reimer, due to the fact he has been home bread by the Leafs, been nothing but a good soldier, and when given the benefit of the doubt he has performed at a good level of play.

I've just grown tired of Bernier being given chance after chance after chance to really prove himself when to me, in my opinion, is nothing but an average starter in this league who to be honest, since his time in Toronto, has been more inconsistent than Reimer has been since he has been a Leaf. Just my two cents

I like it home-grown players as well but I wouldn't hesitate to replace them with players from elsewhere if it helps us win.

Reimer sucked for the last couple of years and I'm tired of people making excuses for that as if he has no responsibility for that fact. Bernier isn't the only goalie in this town who has been "given chance after chance".

I'm rooting for them both and as of right now, I don't see either one as having a substantial edge over the other.

 

[hfman]

I like it home-grown players as well but I wouldn't hesitate to replace them with players from elsewhere if it helps us win.

Reimer sucked for the last couple of years and I'm tired of people making excuses for that as if he has no responsibility for that fact. Bernier isn't the only goalie in this town who has been "given chance after chance".

I'm rooting for them both and as of right now, I don't see either one as having a substantial edge over the other.

the debate will be like 2 kids in a sandbox fighting over a bucket and shovel until mommy comes and takes the bucket and shovel away. In this case, mommy is Lou Amoriello and the bucket is Reimer and the shovel is Bernier.. and when Lou finally decides to move out either the shovel or the bucket or both, only then will the debate come to a close. But until then it's "My Dad is stronger than your Dad"

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

the debate will be like 2 kids in a sandbox fighting over a bucket and shovel until mommy comes and takes the bucket and shovel away. In this case, mommy is Lou Amoriello and the bucket is Reimer and the shovel is Bernier.. and when Lou finally decides to move one or both goalies out only then will the debate come to a close.

None of this mess would of started if it weren't for the old regime *sigh*. Hopefully it will end soon.

 

[MJ65]

Guys - would you move one of these Goalies at the trade deadline? and who would you
keep?

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

I like it home-grown players as well but I wouldn't hesitate to replace them with players from elsewhere if it helps us win.

Reimer sucked for the last couple of years and I'm tired of people making excuses for that as if he has no responsibility for that fact. Bernier isn't the only goalie in this town who has been "given chance after chance".

I'm rooting for them both and as of right now, I don't see either one as having a substantial edge over the other.

I agree, but to be devils advocate it is hard to say Bernier has been given every chance to succeed and Reimer hasn't until this new regime as it has been in place.

Even then, when a goalie (albeit not a huge sample size) is posting top 5 numbers so far this season goes down to injury and loses his net (so far and I may be jumping the gun), something seems quirky to me personally.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Neither goalie has proven they're good for the long haul

I'd move Reimer at the deadline. i can't see them re-signing him

 

[Paradoc]

I agree, but to be devils advocate it is hard to say Bernier has been given every chance to succeed and Reimer hasn't until this new regime as it has been in place.

Even then, when a goalie (albeit not a huge sample size) is posting top 5 numbers so far this season goes down to injury and loses his net (so far and I may be jumping the gun), something seems quirky to me personally.

Reimer was given every chance to succeed but he couldn't earn Carlyle's trust. I'm pretty tired of people making excuses for Reimer not playing well the past two years. If he wanted to play more he should have earned it.

 

[yubbers]

Reimer has a bad stretch of games that single handedly takes us out of a playoff spot....
It's because Randy ruined his confidence

Bernier has a bad start to the beginning of the season
Waive him

 

[Cor]

I just don't see the market for James Reimer.

He'll likely walk at the end of the season.

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

Reimer was given every chance to succeed but he couldn't earn Carlyle's trust. I'm pretty tired of people making excuses for Reimer not playing well the past two years. If he wanted to play more he should have earned it.

That fact that you are saying "couldn't earn Carlyle's trust" when he was a goof of a coach makes me feel like even responding to this is a waste of my time.

 

[TMLegend]

Reimer has a bad stretch of games that single handedly takes us out of a playoff spot....
It's because Randy ruined his confidence

Bernier has a bad start to the beginning of the season
Waive him

Pretty much honestly.

Definitely a bit of a double standard when it comes to our goaltenders amongst fans. Not all that dissimilar from the Kadri V Bozak threads.

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

Reimer has a bad stretch of games that single handedly takes us out of a playoff spot....
It's because Randy ruined his confidence

Bernier has a bad start to the beginning of the season
Waive him

Any logical Leaf fan or fan outside this fan base saw the collapse in 2013/2014 coming. Blaming Reimer for a stretch of bad games in hilarious especially the Randy ruined his confidence card, as Bernier posted the same numbers as him down the stretch. Give your head a shake man.

Berniers been bad for a full calendar year, and a little bit even before that. 3 games in a row of stellar play and people seem to forget this. No wonder Leaf Nation is ridiculed for being one of the most delusional fan bases. This is a Bernier thread after all, so I kind of do understand

 

[zeke]

My apologies, since Reimer went down he does have a .915% which is pretty dandy. Take out the last 3 games like I said, and his save percentage drops to an abysmal .875 since Reimer has been out. Take it as you will

A 7 game stretch of .875 goaltending, and a 3 game stretch (3 games in a row) of near perfect goaltending at .975% and people are getting excited about him being back to what he was. What was he even? A goalie who had a great first year, and has been medicore ever since and abysmal especially the Calendar year of 2015.

for the record, .915 is still below average.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Me personally, I'm tired of the drama of Bernier and Reimer. I've always stood by Reimer, due to the fact he has been home bread by the Leafs, been nothing but a good soldier, and when given the benefit of the doubt he has performed at a good level of play.

I've just grown tired of Bernier being given chance after chance after chance to really prove himself when to me, in my opinion, is nothing but an average starter in this league who to be honest, since his time in Toronto, has been more inconsistent than Reimer has been since he has been a Leaf. Just my two cents

and Reimer was given chances as well and never took off with it,

it doesn't matter to me Reimer was home-grown drafted or not - at a certain point it boils down to "are you the one I want to hitch my horse on." with Reimer - answer. no.

I don't blame management for trying to get a better goalie.
it's evident that it's not Bernier - I personally didn't see the risk though (what they SHOULD have done - was trade Reimer and not sit on him and doing nothing).

Reimer has a bad stretch of games that single handedly takes us out of a playoff spot....
It's because Randy ruined his confidence

Bernier has a bad start to the beginning of the season
Waive him

not everyone bought into that notion that "Randy ruined his confidence."

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

for the record, .915 is still below average.

I'm trying to be nice a bit for them

 

[zeke]

Reimer was given every chance to succeed but he couldn't earn Carlyle's trust. I'm pretty tired of people making excuses for Reimer not playing well the past two years. If he wanted to play more he should have earned it.

Reimer was never given a chance, let alone every chance, after we got Bernier.

Bernier is the one who has received every possible chance.

 

[zeke]

and Reimer was given chances as well and never took off with it,

it doesn't matter to me Reimer was home-grown drafted or not - at a certain point it boils down to "are you the one I want to hitch my horse on." with Reimer - answer. no.

I don't blame management for trying to get a better goalie.
it's evident that it's not Bernier - I personally didn't see the risk though (what they SHOULD have done - was trade Reimer and not sit on him and doing nothing).




not everyone bought into that notion that "Randy ruined his confidence."

the leafs had a 24yr old goalie who finished top-10 in save percentage in 2 of his first 3 seasons, and you're not surprised they traded for another team's midget backup to replace him?