Jonathan Bernier - Player Discussion 2016

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

and Reimer was given chances as well and never took off with it,

it doesn't matter to me Reimer was home-grown drafted or not - at a certain point it boils down to "are you the one I want to hitch my horse on." with Reimer - answer. no.

I don't blame management for trying to get a better goalie.
it's evident that it's not Bernier - I personally didn't see the risk though (what they SHOULD have done - was trade Reimer and not sit on him and doing nothing).




not everyone bought into that notion that "Randy ruined his confidence."

I'd agree with everything you said. However watching the Leafs documentary "The Leaf", it's quite obvious that when Burke was here, Reimer was his "horse" as you per say when talking about him.

It was quite obvious that since Nonis was put in full charge, he wanted nothing to do with him and neither did Carlyle. As evident by trying to acquire Kiprusoff at the deadline of 2012/2013. Poulin (hated by many with the leafs) even stated on an episode of Hockey Tonight that Nonis and Carlyle and even himself didn't have "the stuff" to be a number 1 goalie. Is that Reimers fault that previous regime thought they of him? Makes me chuckle

 

[TMLegend]

Reimer was never given a chance, let alone every chance, after we got Bernier.

Bernier is the one who has received every possible chance.

They only platooned for the first 2-3 months of 2013-14 season, but yeah, Reimer was never given a chance.

Maybe he should of played better if he wanted more starts?

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

the leafs had a 24yr old goalie who finished top-10 in save percentage in 2 of his first 3 seasons, and you're not surprised they traded for another team's midget backup to replace him?

^ this

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

They only platooned for the first 2-3 months of 2013-14 season, but yeah, Reimer was never given a chance.

Maybe he should of played better if he wanted more starts?

As stated numerous times on this board, I believe Reimer and Bernier both were neck in neck for starts and save percentage. And if you would like I can go bring up that stats as to where if Reimer has a bad start, he would sit, and if Bernier were to have a bad start, he would play again.

 

[zeke]

They only platooned for the first 2-3 months of 2013-14 season, but yeah, Reimer was never given a chance.

Maybe he should of played better if he wanted more starts?

they were not platooned to start. not even really close to it. i've posted the game logs before.

 

[zeke]

I'd agree with everything you said. However watching the Leafs documentary "The Leaf", it's quite obvious that when Burke was here, Reimer was his "horse" as you per say when talking about him.

It was quite obvious that since Nonis was put in full charge, he wanted nothing to do with him and neither did Carlyle. As evident by trying to acquire Kiprusoff at the deadline of 2012/2013. Poulin (hated by many with the leafs) even stated on an episode of Hockey Tonight that Nonis and Carlyle and even himself didn't have "the stuff" to be a number 1 goalie. Is that Reimers fault that previous regime thought they of him? Makes me chuckle

correct.

i wonder if people realize they are agreeing with the opinions of people who thought a washed up Kiprussoff was an upgrade in goal?

 

[Morbo]

All Reimer would have to do is take the ball and run with it, but he can't because he is a career backup who can't handle a starter workload and is mentally and physically fragile to boot.

Irrespective of Bernier, James Reimer is clearly not the answer in our search for a quality starting goaltender.

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

All Reimer would have to do is take the ball and run with it, but he can't because he is a career backup who can't handle a starter workload and is mentally and physically fragile to boot.

Irrespective of Bernier, James Reimer is clearly not the answer in our search for a quality starting goaltender.

Mentally fragile? As stated by zeke, 2 of his first 3 years he has an above .920 save percentage. New regime comes in, he poops the bed. Babcock regime comes in, he's playing better than he did before Nonis and coe. If anything Reimer has tremendous mental ability.

As for physical, a concussion/whiplash is not physical. An MCL sprain is which he came back from and played a starters load, and a groin injury where he was playing more than a starters load are really the only physical problems.

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

All Reimer would have to do is take the ball and run with it, but he can't because he is a career backup who can't handle a starter workload and is mentally and physically fragile to boot.

Irrespective of Bernier, James Reimer is clearly not the answer in our search for a quality starting goaltender.

The guy even admitted he was retiring after the 2012/2013 season. How people defend Carlyle and Nonis is beyond me

 

[Gary Nylund]

Mentally fragile? As stated by zeke, 2 of his first 3 years he has an above .920 save percentage. New regime comes in, he poops the bed. Babcock regime comes in, he's playing better than he did before Nonis and coe. If anything Reimer has tremendous mental ability.

As for physical, a concussion/whiplash is not physical. An MCL sprain is which he came back from and played a starters load, and a groin injury where he was playing more than a starters load are really the only physical problems.

So pooping the bed for 2 years because a new regime came in is a sign of tremendous mental ability. Got it.

 

[hoglund]

As stated numerous times on this board, I believe Reimer and Bernier both were neck in neck for starts and save percentage. And if you would like I can go bring up that stats as to where if Reimer has a bad start, he would sit, and if Bernier were to have a bad start, he would play again.

That does seem to be how it happened, I wonder why?

 

[Paradoc]

That fact that you are saying "couldn't earn Carlyle's trust" when he was a goof of a coach makes me feel like even responding to this is a waste of my time.

Oh yeah? Then how well did Reimer perform when Bernier went down to an injury?

 

[Paradoc]

Reimer was never given a chance, let alone every chance, after we got Bernier.

Bernier is the one who has received every possible chance.

Yes, he was given a chance and did well until after the Washington game, where he was terrible and Bernier stole the spot.

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

So pooping the bed for 2 years because a new regime came in is a sign of tremendous mental ability. Got it.

Like I stated, with the Nonis and Coe regime, his worst year was a .907 save percentage and second worst was a .911. Can you not see the facts that he is one of 9 goalies to post above .920 save percentage in atleast 2 years since the 2010 season..?

 

[hoglund]

Like I stated, with the Nonis and Coe regime, his worst year was a .907 save percentage and second worst was a .911. Can you not see the facts that he is one of 9 goalies to post above .920 save percentage in atleast 2 years since the 2010 season..?

If those stats are correct, and I don't know if they are, but if they ARE, then Reimer deserves the starting job. Over the last 3 seasons, to me it seemed like neither goalie was better than the other, Bernier tended to get more starts, but didn't really earn them. I think they're about equal in talent and Reimer has been given the shaft the last 2 years. I think many fans blamed him for the 4-1 collapse vs Boston, but hockey is a team game and any rational fan knows that that game was lost by the team, not Reimer. Signing Bernier in the offseason was a mistake because they already had a proven starter and the signing of Bernier started the goalie controversy that never needed to happen.

 

[Paradoc]

they were not platooned to start. not even really close to it. i've posted the game logs before.

You mean this?

After the Washington game, Reimer didn't perform well and when he did get a chance he would get pulled and Bernier just ran with it.

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

Oh yeah? Then how well did Reimer perform when Bernier went down to an injury?

In the 2013/2014 season, I can't fault him and many logical fans wouldn't as they could see the collapse happening from miles away.

Last year when you break it down, as Mirtle did, Reimer would have a bad game about 1 out of every 6 starts.

Back to the 2013/2014 season, I for one give him no blame after getting bumped in the head. As an athlete whose played at the OUA and OCAA and still do whose received a concussion, it's easy for people to say it's just a concussion. You come back from it to fast and it's null and void. The fact you blame Reimer just makes me LOL when it's clear the previous regime was terrible at handling injury protocol

 

[Nithoniniel]

As stated numerous times on this board, I believe Reimer and Bernier both were neck in neck for starts and save percentage. And if you would like I can go bring up that stats as to where if Reimer has a bad start, he would sit, and if Bernier were to have a bad start, he would play again.

Yeah I remember that list. Someone then looked at the games and noted that both goalies got to continue in net for as long as they were good. The exceptions were for Reimer, but they were also due to injury and back-to-backs, and in the latter Reimer got the next start afterwards. That never got an answer, which it should if it's going to be referenced like the killer argument that it has been.

Like I stated, with the Nonis and Coe regime, his worst year was a .907 save percentage and second worst was a .911. Can you not see the facts that he is one of 9 goalies to post above .920 save percentage in atleast 2 years since the 2010 season..?

Nobody is denying that Reimer can play at a terrific level. The criticisms that I've seen have centered on inconsistency and a smaller work load.

If those stats are correct, and I don't know if they are, but if they ARE, then Reimer deserves the starting job.

Question shouldn't be who "deserves" to be the starter. The question should be if any of them could be the answer in goal long-term, and for that they need to do more than just slightly edge out each other.

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

If those stats are correct, and I don't know if they are, but if they ARE, then Reimer deserves the starting job. Over the last 3 seasons, to me it seemed like neither goalie was better than the other, Bernier tended to get more starts, but didn't really earn them. I think they're about equal in talent and Reimer has been given the shaft the last 2 years. I think many fans blamed him for the 4-1 collapse vs Boston, but hockey is a team game and any rational fan knows that that game was lost by the team, not Reimer. Signing Bernier in the offseason was a mistake because they already had a proven starter and the signing of Bernier started the goalie controversy that never needed to happen.

I forgot to leave out it was goalies with 30+ starts as done by a great twitter follow Stephen Burtch. Only 3 have done it 3 or more and that's Hank, Price and Bobby Luo.

You're right about the goalie controversy, what team in their right mind would go and trade for another goalie when our goalie at the time, (25) had an above .920 in 2 of his first 3 seasons with the sub par season he sustained whiplash and even posted an above average .919 even strength save percentage? Only Carlyle and Nonis would

 

[eddieO]

Zeke has posted game logs before but that's not enough to extinguish the false narrative that Bernier was anointed. Not only that, when he failed for almost two calendar years he was still propped up as the starter going into THIS season. It took a complete unraveling and an AHL rescue mission to repair his confidence to finally show people he isn't a de facto starter. He'll have to earn it from Reimer.

It's good for the team when two goalies are challenging each other.

 

[Paradoc]

In the 2013/2014 season, I can't fault him and many logical fans wouldn't as they could see the collapse happening from miles away.

Last year when you break it down, as Mirtle did, Reimer would have a bad game about 1 out of every 6 starts.

Back to the 2013/2014 season, I for one give him no blame after getting bumped in the head. As an athlete whose played at the OUA and OCAA and still do whose received a concussion, it's easy for people to say it's just a concussion. You come back from it to fast and it's null and void. The fact you blame Reimer just makes me LOL when it's clear the previous regime was terrible at handling injury protocol

So first you say that Reimer wasn't given a fair chance then you say he shouldn't have played much back because of concussion? Again, you're making excuses for Reimer. Either he should have played or just told the medical staff he still had the lingering effects from the concussion. It's as simple as that. And like the picture I should you above, it was fair play from both goaltenders until one ran away from it.

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

Yeah I remember that list. Someone then looked at the games and noted that both goalies got to continue in net for as long as they were good. The exceptions were for Reimer, but they were also due to injury and back-to-backs, and in the latter Reimer got the next start afterwards. That never got an answer, which it should if it's going to be referenced like the killer argument that it has been.



Nobody is denying that Reimer can play at a terrific level. The criticisms that I've seen have centered on inconsistency and a smaller work load.

Agree on all points. One of the main reasons I back Reimer personally, is as you said he can play around a terrific level but the concerns are inconsistentcy and a small work load.

It's small, but when given a proper starter load (and I'm not referencing to games started in one single year), he's showed he can play with the best. It's when he's getting the raw end of the stick (to me atleast) where he's inconsistent (Nonis regime)

 

[Paradoc]

If those stats are correct, and I don't know if they are, but if they ARE, then Reimer deserves the starting job. Over the last 3 seasons, to me it seemed like neither goalie was better than the other, Bernier tended to get more starts, but didn't really earn them. I think they're about equal in talent and Reimer has been given the shaft the last 2 years. I think many fans blamed him for the 4-1 collapse vs Boston, but hockey is a team game and any rational fan knows that that game was lost by the team, not Reimer. Signing Bernier in the offseason was a mistake because they already had a proven starter and the signing of Bernier started the goalie controversy that never needed to happen.

This is false. Bernier was better than Reimer in both seasons the last two years and you can't argue against the facts.

 

[eddieO]

So first you say that Reimer wasn't given a fair chance then you say he shouldn't have played much back because of concussion? Again, your making excuses for Reimer. Either he should have played or just told the medical staff he still had the lingering effects from the concussion. It's as simple as that. And like the picture I should you above, it was fair play from both goaltenders until one ran away from it.

Absolutely fair, if a goalie says he can play he should be judged on his play as if he's able to play.

Which tells us Bernier was god awful in the collapse too.

 

[KILLERLEAFFAN101]

So first you say that Reimer wasn't given a fair chance then you say he shouldn't have played much back because of concussion? Again, your making excuses for Reimer. Either he should have played or just told the medical staff he still had the lingering effects from the concussion. It's as simple as that. And like the picture I should you above, it was fair play from both goaltenders until one ran away from it.

I'm not making excuses for Reimer at all. I'm referring to the previous regimes way of handling injuries and concussions.

Any athlete in their right mind would want to be out there, just as Reimer was. Any smart team would hold a player back (as seen with the new NFL concussion protocol which is still iffy at worst)