Jonathan Bernier - Player Discussion 2016

[Leaf Warrior]

 

[nuck]

How are they going to get rid of Bernier? Nobody will take him for the amount he makes, he'll be starting for the Leafs in October, Reimer will be traded for prospects.

Buy high and sell low. You don't dump a goalie after one bad year and pay another team to take him. He sucks right now but his body of work says he can be a lot better. I don't think keeping Bernier means Reimer has to go. I would resign Reimer if he isn't too pricey and try to move JB next year. Would not want to bring in Nylander, Brown, Marner and Laine to a worse goaltending situation than the club already has. I think the club would have liked for Bernier to step up to make Reimer movable, but I don't think he is and they will have to pay up because of that.

 

[rrc1967]

Buy high and sell low. You don't dump a goalie after one bad year and pay another team to take him. He sucks right now but his body of work says he can be a lot better.

bernier's HD % has never been more than average.

even though I disilke using overall save %, this was an interesting chart earlier on in the season.

 

[Daisy Jane]

But Babcock has shown patience with Reimer.

but I notice something more with Babcock lately. if you give it your all and leave it all out there during the game. he's okay with that.

I can't think that even the most ardent of reimer haters can honestly state he doesn't try anything and everything possible. it may not look pretty, but damn he tries.

and babcock has acknowledged many times, about how reimer worked and trained in the off season.

and edit:

btw, good thought on potential trade, i could easily see Lou doing that. especially if babcock states.. "I want him gone." .. in either words or by interviews such as last night.

trading Reimer and keeping Bernier at the TDL isn't going to make the coach too pleased.

not when he was injured. there was this totall "Well, whenever he feels like he wants to go." but in the "pfft screw you" sense - then you are right

but again with what Trapper said - it's mostly because - Reimer never looks like he wants to be ANYWHERE but in the net. (and now you go back to when Carlyle pulled him in that Wings game - and Reimer gave him the death stare and eye roll) I can't remember if it bugged me (maybe it did-ish) - but it did show at the same time he wanted to stay in and help the team win. (and he says that almost every game, he feels that the group can come back and if he gets them in trouble - he wants to get them out)

(yes i know some of this is Sports-ese)

none of that aura is on Bernier at all.

I was going to say it's easy to be loved in Toronto - and hard to be not liked - but I am not even going to give that crutch. It's easy to be loved - period, and it's says a lot about a person when they are not liked. Bernier looks like a lost, wounded puppy, he sounds like a lost wounded puppy, and this has been like this for a while.

Reimer had his issues (and has em) but I've never seen the wounded puppy behaviour from him.

 

[burpsalot]

I posted this on another thread last night, but it's probably more suitable here.

Based on Bernier's play tonight and a lot of his other bad games this season, why would another team want to give up players, prospects or draft picks and trade for him?

Well I did say in the comment you responded to,

"Maybe a team with their own sieve & we can play the "change of scenery" game. I'm good with that, I want him gone."


Earlier, before the game, I made the comment,

"The only way Bernier is here next year is if nobody wants him."

From Babcock's comment it sounds like he doesn't have any time for him. Babcock has given him more than enough opportunities & every time he ***** the bed.

Babcock wants players that want to compete for their jobs. Bernier plays like he's on frikkin Quaaludes. He does not fit the culture or compete level that the organization wants.

What can we get for him? Who knows, but his trade value only seems to be getting worse. There comes a time when his presence becomes detrimental. Try for a 6th rounder? Trade him for an AHL prospect? Trade him for another sieve that needs a change of scenery? I can't see Babcock starting him again unless he has no other choice. But I think the chances of him dressing for the Leafs next year are slim to none.

Nonnis

 

[I Am The Stig]

Bernier started off really well for the Leafs. But during that stretch before he got his first groin injury a few years back, his play did start to diminish and it just went down from there.

 

[rrc1967]

Bernier started off really well for the Leafs. But during that stretch before he got his first groin injury a few years back, his play did start to diminish and it just went down from there.

what was curious is that I plotted bernier's high danger % over the course of his career here in toronto.

it's interesting because Bernier hit his high around christmas and has been in a continual slide since. approx around the time carlyle was fired.

this was only his first two seasons here as a leaf.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

i've always been a bernier believer and still think his talent/skills are superior to reimer's. but the last few games i've just seen him not care about giving up goals or not even playing hard enough to stop the pucks. he just does the bare minimum. its really disappointing as to why he's become like this. i think it may have to do with our garbage season/team and him thinking its not worth it to give it his all. i get it we're a rebuilding team, but you still have to try and play your best. he hasn't been doing that like reimer has in the last couple of months.

really disappointed. i think he needs a fresh start. plus his relationship with babs seems worn out. i'm sure another team will take a flyer on him. only 1 year left at 4M. if it doesn't work out for them, they can walk away from him in 2017 easily. people who are saying to put him in the minors are being really dumb.

 

[happyaccident]

The first goal was almost uncontested by Bernier and the Schenn goal was a stinker. Don't believe me, Babs pulled him and didn't even look at him as he skated by. That's arguably the best coach in the league not even acknowledging his goalie as he was pulled.

On the 2-on-1, I can't blame the poor rebound on Bernier although if it were Reimer there would be a chorus of ReboundControl types here.

I'm not even going to try to compete once the pile-on mentality gets going around here, the momentum is unstoppable. He waved at the first goal as it flew by, watch him again, it's all he can do. This unwarranted criticism just masks the real problems, great effort by Polak (ie. Lidtrom 2.0 according to Babcock) and Holland looking lost. 2 guys playing pass and go right next to our net and then a shot you can't even see til it's bounced out of the net.
The Schenn goal was amazing. PAP, Arcibello and Corrado all pinned to the boards like idiots accomplishing nothing except letting the guy have the puck uncontested to send in Schenn alone. Laughable effort and then Bernier gets the pull for the goal scored on a clean break, wow. You guys are ludicrous. Carry on.

 

[leafsfan1993]

Reimer can't stay healthy more than Bernier and Bernier the better goalie is a myth.

Bernier has had surgery due to injury, no?

Has Reimer had surgery due to injury or is our new Sports sciences ensuring that doesn't happen, so he's all good in the groin area for the 2nd half of the season?

Agree completely. Reimer is better than Bernier in my personal opinion. Neither goalie has ever played a full season as a starter, so it’s very difficult to compare; However, trends and statistical analysis suggest that Reimer has been a more effective goalie than Bernier.

 

[airbus220]

Yes, Babcock isn't patient which is so important at the goalie position. Other goalies struggle too. Sure Bernier should get a lot of blame coming into camp so unprepared, but Babcock made mistakes too and even changed his philosophy, treated Howard different. Someone should tell him he should be more patient, seasons are so long. And now it is what it is. Nobody can be 100% the whole season, that's how sport works, you try to keep high performance for a long time when it matters, but Reimer was forced into many games early, had his high point and now it can't be reached again. It's like you have to ride the Tour De France in March.That's of course what a coach should know and how he should use his players. The basics in sport. Some people study that.

 

[rrc1967]

I'm not even going to try to compete once the pile-on mentality gets going around here, the momentum is unstoppable. He waved at the first goal as it flew by, watch him again, it's all he can do. This unwarranted criticism just masks the real problems, great effort by Polak (ie. Lidtrom 2.0 according to Babcock) and Holland looking lost. 2 guys playing pass and go right next to our net and then a shot you can't even see til it's bounced out of the net.
The Schenn goal was amazing. PAP, Arcibello and Corrado all pinned to the boards like idiots accomplishing nothing except letting the guy have the puck uncontested to send in Schenn alone. Laughable effort and then Bernier gets the pull for the goal scored on a clean break, wow. You guys are ludicrous. Carry on.

so all the goals where no chance goals?

okay then

 

[MikeBabchuk]

I'm not even going to try to compete once the pile-on mentality gets going around here, the momentum is unstoppable. He waved at the first goal as it flew by, watch him again, it's all he can do. This unwarranted criticism just masks the real problems, great effort by Polak (ie. Lidtrom 2.0 according to Babcock) and Holland looking lost. 2 guys playing pass and go right next to our net and then a shot you can't even see til it's bounced out of the net.
The Schenn goal was amazing. PAP, Arcibello and Corrado all pinned to the boards like idiots accomplishing nothing except letting the guy have the puck uncontested to send in Schenn alone. Laughable effort and then Bernier gets the pull for the goal scored on a clean break, wow. You guys are ludicrous. Carry on.

At some point you just have to give up a losing battle, friend.

Most goalies stop those shots most times.

 

[rrc1967]

At some point you just have to give up a losing battle, friend.

Most goalies stop those shots most times.

first one.. meh, maybe a bigger goaltender would have had it hit him. glove side though? hmm. difficult and would have been a great save.

the second, was unlucky as the defense totally #($*&#$ that one up, as the defenseman went to play the shooter and left the pass wide open .. Bernier read it well and made the first save (excellent read and save), however was completely out of position on the rebound. no real fault there, bernier did his job on the first save.

the third? he should have had. the pass was completely blocked off and there was very little in the way of a deke going to happen given schenn's positioning. he was completely set, well out of the blue paint and schenn beat him from the deep slot with a wrist shot. shouldn't have really happened, but it was still a nice shot.

reimer's goal .. defense stuck their stick weakly in front of the shot, top corner blocker side. difficult save to make - you hope like hell it really hits your stick.

the OT goal? 2 on 1, and the pass was excellent right under Rielly, no chance. can't blame Rielly on that, he did all he could to prevent the pass, nor Reimer since he must always play the shooter.

an example:

How to piss off your goaltender 101.

Reimer has no chance to track that puck. Never EVER put your stick in front of the shooter like that, and if you do, make damned sure you block it or deflect it.

how to play a 2 on 1..

you really can't ask from a goaltender's perspective anything better than this on a 2 on 1. Reilly's totally blocked the pass, allowing Bernier to totally focus on the shooter.

how to piss off your goaltender part Deux.

what the hell was he thinking here.. telegraphed pass, and look where Reilly's stick is.. totally out of the passing lane completely. Reilly made a bad play here, but heck, he's young. he may have been anticipating the leaf catching the other player.

the leafs are making all sorts of critical thinking errors on the ice right now.

I thought this was funny:

and can you believe that someone actually blamed reimer for letting in that goal?

 

[eddieO]

I'm not even going to try to compete once the pile-on mentality gets going around here, the momentum is unstoppable. He waved at the first goal as it flew by, watch him again, it's all he can do. This unwarranted criticism just masks the real problems, great effort by Polak (ie. Lidtrom 2.0 according to Babcock) and Holland looking lost. 2 guys playing pass and go right next to our net and then a shot you can't even see til it's bounced out of the net.
The Schenn goal was amazing. PAP, Arcibello and Corrado all pinned to the boards like idiots accomplishing nothing except letting the guy have the puck uncontested to send in Schenn alone. Laughable effort and then Bernier gets the pull for the goal scored on a clean break, wow. You guys are ludicrous. Carry on.

"Clean break" is a 2-on-1 where the dman has the pass covered? All Bernier had to do there was play the shot. That was a stinker. Sure, other players had mental implosions on the ice, but Bernier has to stop that.

The first one was a rocket of a shot but I guarantee if it were Reimer, we'd have WeakGloveHand peppered all over the thread.

Forget the two soft goals, the second goal where he actually made the save and left the rebound out for an easy tap in. Please everyone watch that goal again because it gets to the crux of the issue. He doesn't even REACH for the puck again. He doesn't even attempt for it. It's like a tiny wave of the hand. If you see the puck sitting in the crease, at least dive for it. Yeah, it was a goal at that point no matter what Bernier does but that effort is what pissed me off the most.

Bernier has the "oh well" attitude. Oh well, it's a goal. Oh well Schenn scored on me on what would otherwise be a routine save. Oh well I got pulled again.

The body language IN NET and outside of it are awful.

Reimer may not be great but he puts in an effort and if you pull him he's sure as hell gonna have an attitude about it.

 

[MJ65]

Unfortunately no team in this league is going to take him - so let him play next year and then dump him

 

[eddieO]

Unfortunately no team in this league is going to take him - so let him play next year and then dump him

Then you waive him and clear out a contract space. They've already sent him to the AHL, what else can they do to rehab him?

I honestly can't see Babcock wanting to start the guy again unless he's forced.

 

[MJ65]

Then you waive him and clear out a contract space. They've already sent him to the AHL, what else can they do to rehab him?

I honestly can't see Babcock wanting to start the guy again unless he's forced.

You are still stuck with his contract whether playing in AHL or NHL

 

[eddieO]

You are still stuck with his contract whether playing in AHL or NHL

True. My hope was someone would claim him on waivers.

Whenever I write that thought on this board, people jump on and say of course some team will claim him.

I'd like to put that to the test.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Wonder if we blow one of our retained salary transactions on him? Gunnarsson's comes off the books next year so we have 2 available next year. I'd imagine some team would take a chance on him at 2 million on a 1 year deal. Its not ideal but it might be worthwhile.

 

[hoglund]

Buy high and sell low. You don't dump a goalie after one bad year and pay another team to take him. He sucks right now but his body of work says he can be a lot better. I don't think keeping Bernier means Reimer has to go. I would resign Reimer if he isn't too pricey and try to move JB next year. Would not want to bring in Nylander, Brown, Marner and Laine to a worse goaltending situation than the club already has. I think the club would have liked for Bernier to step up to make Reimer movable, but I don't think he is and they will have to pay up because of that.

I think Bernier will be the starter because of his contract, Reimer is the better goalie, no denying that, but he'll probably want more money and a longer contract, that's too costly during a rebuild. Bernier is good for the tank and rebuild, he'll be here for 1 more year, Sparks will probably be the back up.

 

[happyaccident]

"Clean break" is a 2-on-1 where the dman has the pass covered? All Bernier had to do there was play the shot. That was a stinker. Sure, other players had mental implosions on the ice, but Bernier has to stop that.

The first one was a rocket of a shot but I guarantee if it were Reimer, we'd have WeakGloveHand peppered all over the thread.

Forget the two soft goals, the second goal where he actually made the save and left the rebound out for an easy tap in. Please everyone watch that goal again because it gets to the crux of the issue. He doesn't even REACH for the puck again. He doesn't even attempt for it. It's like a tiny wave of the hand. If you see the puck sitting in the crease, at least dive for it. Yeah, it was a goal at that point no matter what Bernier does but that effort is what pissed me off the most.

Bernier has the "oh well" attitude. Oh well, it's a goal. Oh well Schenn scored on me on what would otherwise be a routine save. Oh well I got pulled again.

The body language IN NET and outside of it are awful.

Reimer may not be great but he puts in an effort and if you pull him he's sure as hell gonna have an attitude about it.

The reason Bernier couldn't scoop the rebound was that he was leaning opposite way. Why? Because the pass once again got past Rielly, who didn't even put his stick in the passing lane (good gawd, could somebody please teach him how to handle a 2 on 1) so Bernier had to shift and carry over his momentum. And he still made the initial save but it's hard to scoop a rebound going the opposite way after having to do the "my defense sucks" pushoff in the other direction. I think both these guys do pretty well with their body language. If I was either one of them, I'd go all Hextell, run to the bench and start screaming. I remember the Boston game, geez if I was Reimer, I'd have blown a gasket.
The Schenn goal wasn't great but look at the winning goal against Pekka Rinne last night, look at the Fraise goal etc etc. Considering the defensive blunders going on all over the ice, Babcock throwing Bernier under the bus like he did was total bush league. Maybe he's trying to deflect attention from the fact his team is playing like blunderheads all over the ice or the fact that, after MLSE had to pay for the whole Clarkson/Horton fiasco, Lou-urns decides to take Michael freaking Grabner's salary on board. These guys should look in the mirror instead of just scapegoating the guys on the team with the hardest job and the least responsibilty for this mess.

 

[rrc1967]

The reason Bernier couldn't scoop the rebound was that he was leaning opposite way. Why? Because the pass once again got past Rielly, who didn't even put his stick in the passing lane (good gawd, could somebody please teach him how to handle a 2 on 1) so Bernier had to shift and carry over his momentum. And he still made the initial save but it's hard to scoop a rebound going the opposite way after having to do the "my defense sucks" pushoff in the other direction. I think both these guys do pretty well with their body language. If I was either one of them, I'd go all Hextell, run to the bench and start screaming. I remember the Boston game, geez if I was Reimer, I'd have blown a gasket.
The Schenn goal wasn't great but look at the winning goal against Pekka Rinne last night, look at the Fraise goal etc etc. Considering the defensive blunders going on all over the ice, Babcock throwing Bernier under the bus like he did was total bush league. Maybe he's trying to deflect attention from the fact his team is playing like blunderheads all over the ice or the fact that, after MLSE had to pay for the whole Clarkson/Horton fiasco, Lou-urns decides to take Michael freaking Grabner's salary on board. These guys should look in the mirror instead of just scapegoating the guys on the team with the hardest job and the least responsibilty for this mess.

the schenn goal was stoppable. Reilly played the 2 on 1 perfectly, there was no pass potential, Bernier was well out, and Schenn wasn't even putting all his weight behind the shot.

if he had saved it, it would have been a good save, not even a highlight reel kind of save.

that said, only really two goals out of the 5 where no chance in all goals. all of them had some degree of difficulty.

Bernier's 6-15-3 with a 3.17 GAA and a .895 Save % and an atrocious high danger save %. pulling him from the game, isn't throwing him under the bus, when Bernier's made a nice home for himself under there all season.

 

[rrc1967]

not when he was injured. there was this totall "Well, whenever he feels like he wants to go." but in the "pfft screw you" sense - then you are right

When i saw those interviews I thought it was more frustration because he had to play bernier, etc .. and his starter was having a difficult time getting back.

unfortunately with groins, it IS when he feels he can go.

medical staff, coaches, trainers, can help - but in the end, the goaltender has to feel comfortable and has to feel okay the next day.

(editops .. edited the wrong reply)

 

[MJ65]

True. My hope was someone would claim him on waivers.

Whenever I write that thought on this board, people jump on and say of course some team will claim him.

I'd like to put that to the test.

No sure why any one would, who is going to pay him $4 M?