Jonathan Bernier - Player Discussion 2016

[eddieO]

Babcock is smoking something if he thinks any of those goals were remotely Bernier's fault. You couldn't even see the first goal until it was bouncing out of the net. Then that defensive dumpsterfire known as Morgan Rielly with no clue how to hande a 2-on-1 once again and oh, let's give the guy a rebound for good measure and then a harmless 2-on-2 along the boards turns into an instant Schenn breakaway while "unfortunate circumstances" Corrado stands and watches. Babcock likes to play his favorites, he's entering Randy territory throwing Bernier under the bus after that defense sh**show.

The first goal was almost uncontested by Bernier and the Schenn goal was a stinker. Don't believe me, Babs pulled him and didn't even look at him as he skated by. That's arguably the best coach in the league not even acknowledging his goalie as he was pulled.

On the 2-on-1, I can't blame the poor rebound on Bernier although if it were Reimer there would be a chorus of ReboundControl types here.

 

[eddieO]

Even on the rebound, Bernier plays it like it doesn't matter. The lack of compete is what I'm more disappointed with than anything else. There's a short-circuit in his brain that doesn't sit well with me. Reimer might swim, he might belly-flop, he might look like a total nut out there but he's trying. With Bernier it's almost like Style is the most important thing. He got burned with it twice today and Babock's presser tells you everything.

He said Reims made a stop to keep us in it. And when asked about Bernier, just a shrug and you know the rest.

 

[MikeBabchuk]

I just find it interesting that people so often say Bernier couldn't possibly have stopped certain shots. Well, clearly there are some shots he could be stopping because he's second last in the league in save %. Other goalies are stopping more shots, and that's the bottom line. If he actually can't do better, what does that say about him?

 

[Daisy Jane]

Even on the rebound, Bernier plays it like it doesn't matter. The lack of compete is what I'm more disappointed with than anything else. There's a short-circuit in his brain that doesn't sit well with me. Reimer might swim, he might belly-flop, he might look like a total nut out there but he's trying. With Bernier it's almost like Style is the most important thing. He got burned with it twice today and Babock's presser tells you everything.

He said Reims made a stop to keep us in it. And when asked about Bernier, just a shrug and you know the rest.

and honestly. i think that's what's pissing Babcock off more.
Not that he didn't stop it - but it's this

"shrug" and skate off, and drink water - whatever attitude - that really sucks. Because - I honestly feel like if it was just that he was struggling - Babcock would be maybe a touch more patient with him - because we've seen him be patient with other struggling players. And while he doesn't like having to "guess" about his goalies - I think if the aspect was more of Bernier trying and not looking like he doesn't give an eff - Babcock wouldn't look like he was forcing every single fibre in his being not to go and kick Bernier's butt.

like the man can't even look at him. and when he's brought up there's just this visible control of "I can not even even with him." whatever issues Carlyle had with Reimer - I don't remember Carlyle ever looking like that.

- and if you go by what he let slip around Christmas time (just before Bernier went down to the A) - i also think it has something to do with how Bernier treats goalie sessions.

Honestly I don't know what Lou is going to do with regards to Reimer - but I will be shocked as spit if Bernier is wearing a Leafs uniform come fall

 

[hoglund]

How are they going to get rid of Bernier? Nobody will take him for the amount he makes, he'll be starting for the Leafs in October, Reimer will be traded for prospects.

 

[81Reasons]

and honestly. i think that's what's pissing Babcock off more.
Not that he didn't stop it - but it's this

"shrug" and skate off, and drink water - whatever attitude - that really sucks. Because - I honestly feel like if it was just that he was struggling - Babcock would be maybe a touch more patient with him - because we've seen him be patient with other struggling players. And while he doesn't like having to "guess" about his goalies - I think if the aspect was more of Bernier trying and not looking like he doesn't give an eff - Babcock wouldn't look like he was forcing every single fibre in his being not to go and kick Bernier's butt.

like the man can't even look at him. and when he's brought up there's just this visible control of "I can not even even with him." whatever issues Carlyle had with Reimer - I don't remember Carlyle ever looking like that.

- and if you go by what he let slip around Christmas time (just before Bernier went down to the A) - i also think it has something to do with how Bernier treats goalie sessions.

Honestly I don't know what Lou is going to do with regards to Reimer - but I will be shocked as spit if Bernier is wearing a Leafs uniform come fall

have to agree that Bernier is done in this market. Babcock will want to see overall team improvement next year and you can't take a chance on Bernier playing anywhere close to this next year and it not affecting the team negatively.

I would suspect Bernier will ask for a trade anyway.

With the quality of opportunities the leafs are giving up these days though it's going to be rough for whoever plays goal. You take a bad team and then remove the top 4-5 players and it is hard to watch.

 

[Daisy Jane]

How are they going to get rid of Bernier? Nobody will take him for the amount he makes, he'll be starting for the Leafs in October, Reimer will be traded for prospects.

retain 50% and have at'er. that's what retention slots are for.

 

[Daisy Jane]

and honestly. i think that's what's pissing Babcock off more.
Not that he didn't stop it - but it's this

"shrug" and skate off, and drink water - whatever attitude - that really sucks. Because - I honestly feel like if it was just that he was struggling - Babcock would be maybe a touch more patient with him - because we've seen him be patient with other struggling players. And while he doesn't like having to "guess" about his goalies - I think if the aspect was more of Bernier trying and not looking like he doesn't give an eff - Babcock wouldn't look like he was forcing every single fibre in his being not to go and kick Bernier's butt.

like the man can't even look at him. and when he's brought up there's just this visible control of "I can not even even with him." whatever issues Carlyle had with Reimer - I don't remember Carlyle ever looking like that.

- and if you go by what he let slip around Christmas time (just before Bernier went down to the A) - i also think it has something to do with how Bernier treats goalie sessions.

Honestly I don't know what Lou is going to do with regards to Reimer - but I will be shocked as spit if Bernier is wearing a Leafs uniform come fall

have to agree that Bernier is done in this market. Babcock will want to see overall team improvement next year and you can't take a chance on Bernier playing anywhere close to this next year and it not affecting the team negatively.

I would suspect Bernier will ask for a trade anyway.

With the quality of opportunities the leafs are giving up these days though it's going to be rough for whoever plays goal. You take a bad team and then remove the top 4-5 players and it is hard to watch.

I truly think though there comes a time where that doesn't matter. - you still have to go out there and play well (like - I have to assume that coach/management are't dumb and they DO take into account the quality of team in front of you - but if you look like like a wounded puppy and are all like "well what can I do, look at the team in front of me." it doesn't really carry well.

maybe hay with the sunshine you've got.

 

[MikeBabchuk]

How are they going to get rid of Bernier? Nobody will take him for the amount he makes, he'll be starting for the Leafs in October, Reimer will be traded for prospects.

Waivers, if it comes to that. As Daisy mentioned, try and do a trade with salary retention first. The worst goalie in the league does not retain his job unearned. If that's what this organization stands for, we might as well fold now.

 

[Trapper]

Waivers, if it comes to that. As Daisy mentioned, try and do a trade with salary retention first. The worst goalie in the league does not retain his job unearned. If that's what this organization stands for, we might as well fold now.

Bernier has 1 year left at 4 million. We aren't retaining. That's not going to sink anyone. A contender isn't interested in Bernier, a team like Calgary is. Hudler and Jones are UFAs on the the Flames. They each make 4 million. Ramo and Hiller make 4 and 3.8 respectively. Chances are Hudler is traded and Jones won't be making 4 million anymore.
Again, we aren't retaining.

 

[The Examiner]

Bernier has 1 year left at 4 million. We aren't retaining. That's not going to sink anyone. A contender isn't interested in Bernier, a team like Calgary is. Hudler and Jones are UFAs on the the Flames. They each make 4 million. Ramo and Hiller make 4 and 3.8 respectively. Chances are Hudler is traded and Jones won't be making 4 million anymore.
Again, we aren't retaining.

Hiller and Ramo are also UFAs.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Sometimes Bernier can look like he's not giving 100%, as mentioned.

I'm disappointed. I thought he was going to be very solid for us

 

[MikeBabchuk]

Bernier has 1 year left at 4 million. We aren't retaining. That's not going to sink anyone. A contender isn't interested in Bernier, a team like Calgary is. Hudler and Jones are UFAs on the the Flames. They each make 4 million. Ramo and Hiller make 4 and 3.8 respectively. Chances are Hudler is traded and Jones won't be making 4 million anymore.
Again, we aren't retaining.

What if it's a sticking point?

 

[Trapper]

Hiller and Ramo are also UFAs.

Right. And one is 34 and the other will be rehabbing from knee surgery.
Calgary will be interested at 1 year of Bernier.

 

[Trapper]

What if it's a sticking point?

I seriously doubt that. If it was 5 years, maybe. But Calgary has over 16 million coming off the books. The goalie UFA market is pitiful.
And that's why we have Lou. Phaneuf, zero retention.

 

[TMLegend]

Bernier is in a tough spot. He's playing poorly, he has a coach who seems to utterly detest him and thus doesn't want to play him, no doubt sapping away at his confidence and probably weighing on his mind a little bit knowing he has the thinnest of margins for error in Babcocks eyes.

I don't think Babcock is the best coach for handling goaltenders in all honesty. We've seen it in Detroit and we've seen it a little bit here in his treatment of Bernier. I think he lacks patience at the position, and he's prone to overreactions such as calling Howard "terrible" in the media. I'm never been a big fan of singling out players after a game, or doing his "I can't even with him" like he did in the post-game, even if it's warranted. It kinda makes you look like an a-hole, just my two cents.

Ultimately, I think he's done here, and I would be shocked if he's here Fall of 2016. I believe in his talent, I really do, he's offered the best goaltending we've seen in a season since Belfour, but something is clearly wrong with him nowadays. What used to be strengths of his in lateral mobility and rebound control, have regressed to average at best, and his puck handling has gotten worse as well imo.

Maybe it's the fishbowl that is Toronto has gotten to him, but I honestly can't find the root cause of his failure.

 

[Stats01]

Bernier is in a tough spot. He's playing poorly, he has a coach who seems to utterly detest him and thus doesn't want to play him, no doubt sapping away at his confidence and probably weighing on his mind a little bit knowing he has the thinnest of margins for error in Babcocks eyes.

I don't think Babcock is the best coach for handling goaltenders in all honesty. We've seen it in Detroit and we've seen it a little bit here in his treatment of Bernier. I think he lacks patience at the position, and he's prone to overreactions such as calling Howard "terrible" in the media. I'm never been a big fan of singling out players after a game, or doing his "I can't even with him" like he did in the post-game, even if it's warranted. It kinda makes you look like an a-hole, just my two cents.

Ultimately, I think he's done here, and I would be shocked if he's here Fall of 2016. I believe in his talent, I really do, he's offered the best goaltending we've seen in a season since Belfour, but something is clearly wrong with him nowadays. What used to be strengths of his in lateral mobility and rebound control, have regressed to average at best, and his puck handling has gotten worse as well imo.

Maybe it's the fishbowl that is Toronto has gotten to him, but I honestly can't find the root cause of his failure.

See I dont agree with that. If someone is playing piss poor then I have no problem Babcock calling him out...he's the coach so he's allowed. These are big boys and they can handle it. The team may not be good but if you're giving up weak goals all the time then I don't think the whole team should get equal share of the blame. For example Loov played pretty good last night why should he get part of the blame for something he didn't do?

Bernier has to own up his faults. He gives up at least 1 weak goal a game, he has a terrible attitude and that has nothing to do with the team it's on him. He just flat out has to be better.

 

[MikeBabchuk]

Bernier is in a tough spot. He's playing poorly, he has a coach who seems to utterly detest him and thus doesn't want to play him, no doubt sapping away at his confidence and probably weighing on his mind a little bit knowing he has the thinnest of margins for error in Babcocks eyes.

I don't think Babcock is the best coach for handling goaltenders in all honesty. We've seen it in Detroit and we've seen it a little bit here in his treatment of Bernier. I think he lacks patience at the position, and he's prone to overreactions such as calling Howard "terrible" in the media. I'm never been a big fan of singling out players after a game, or doing his "I can't even with him" like he did in the post-game, even if it's warranted. It kinda makes you look like an a-hole, just my two cents.

Ultimately, I think he's done here, and I would be shocked if he's here Fall of 2016. I believe in his talent, I really do, he's offered the best goaltending we've seen in a season since Belfour, but something is clearly wrong with him nowadays. What used to be strengths of his in lateral mobility and rebound control, have regressed to average at best, and his puck handling has gotten worse as well imo.

Maybe it's the fishbowl that is Toronto has gotten to him, but I honestly can't find the root cause of his failure.

Howard has gotten even worse with Babcock leaving though. I really don't think you can blame him for Bernier's performance either since Bernier's decline started before Babs got here. Obviously Babcock quickly got fed up with the guy as the backup and even third stringer outplayed him.

Sometimes high draft picks, even those with aparent talent, just don't pan out once it becomes clear that you have to put in 100% every day at this level.

 

[-DeMo-]

How are they going to get rid of Bernier? Nobody will take him for the amount he makes, he'll be starting for the Leafs in October, Reimer will be traded for prospects.

Bernier gets a 2 million bonus on July 1st after that the team trading for him would only have to pay him 2.15 million so that could help in being able to move him.

however I would just keep him no point in trying to pawn him off for nothing, players espicially goalie's have off years, personally don't think he's a long term solution but he can play alot better then he's been playing, I would say give him another year here and move him at the deadline where were more likely to get something of value for him if he can rebound, and if he doesn't then were only out what maybe a 5th round that someone might give us?

 

[JEI]

Bernier gets a 2 million bonus on July 1st after that the team trading for him would only have to pay him 2.15 million so that could help in being able to move him.

however I would just keep him no point in trying to pawn him off for nothing, players espicially goalie's have off years, personally don't think he's a long term solution but he can play alot better then he's been playing, I would say give him another year here and move him at the deadline where were more likely to get something of value for him if he can rebound, and if he doesn't then were only out what maybe a 5th round that someone might give us?

Or they just move him for another teams 'Collin Greening' type contract.

If there's a market for him, trade him. If not, might as well see if he can rebound next year. Issue would be what Babcock wants though.

 

[Le Cobra]

Even on the rebound, Bernier plays it like it doesn't matter. The lack of compete is what I'm more disappointed with than anything else. There's a short-circuit in his brain that doesn't sit well with me. Reimer might swim, he might belly-flop, he might look like a total nut out there but he's trying. With Bernier it's almost like Style is the most important thing. He got burned with it twice today and Babock's presser tells you everything.

He said Reims made a stop to keep us in it. And when asked about Bernier, just a shrug and you know the rest.

One of the reporters mentioned Reimer at the end of Bernier's post game interview and he didnt seem pleased (most likely because he was still down about his own performance, but that is an assumption).

 

[Daisy Jane]

Bernier is in a tough spot. He's playing poorly, he has a coach who seems to utterly detest him and thus doesn't want to play him, no doubt sapping away at his confidence and probably weighing on his mind a little bit knowing he has the thinnest of margins for error in Babcocks eyes.

I don't think Babcock is the best coach for handling goaltenders in all honesty. We've seen it in Detroit and we've seen it a little bit here in his treatment of Bernier. I think he lacks patience at the position, and he's prone to overreactions such as calling Howard "terrible" in the media. I'm never been a big fan of singling out players after a game, or doing his "I can't even with him" like he did in the post-game, even if it's warranted. It kinda makes you look like an a-hole, just my two cents.

Ultimately, I think he's done here, and I would be shocked if he's here Fall of 2016. I believe in his talent, I really do, he's offered the best goaltending we've seen in a season since Belfour, but something is clearly wrong with him nowadays. What used to be strengths of his in lateral mobility and rebound control, have regressed to average at best, and his puck handling has gotten worse as well imo.

Maybe it's the fishbowl that is Toronto has gotten to him, but I honestly can't find the root cause of his failure.

I heard on a radio spot from a former player of his - is that really, Babcock doesn't have patience for goaltenders (and he doesn't really want to always be like "Oh okay so who is playing now." So - this is making me believe - this isn't just a Babcock v. Bernier thing. this might be a Steve Whatshisface v. Bernier thing, because Babcock had said (maybe a slip of the tongue) - that Bernier wasn't doing v. hot w/him.

Now - I don't think this is a case of Allaire forcing his will on the players. Steve Whatshisface is a disciple of Mike Korn who is like Goalie Yoda (and the one Washington has making Holtby look like an uberstud). so maybe it's his attitude. Maybe he feels like it's unfair. I don't know

I personally don't have an issue of calling out a player if/when it's warranted -because Babcock will also go how awesome so and so is - if so and so is awesome. And yesterday - it really seemed like Babs couldn't even even with the team period. (he was also quoted with - he even said he was surprised that the fans were that good to us afer the first - he wouldn't have been that good with the team if it were him).

but truly - I think Bernier is done.
and Trap - I think if Lou wanted him gone (for the contract space) - we'd totally retain 50% for a year. I think we get Gunnars back this year (giving us two), let someone try Bernier out at 50% (and kick us an extra pick for that little grace period), wham, bam.

 

[rrc1967]

I heard on a radio spot from a former player of his - is that really, Babcock doesn't have patience for goaltenders (and he doesn't really want to always be like "Oh okay so who is playing now." So - this is making me believe - this isn't just a Babcock v. Bernier thing. this might be a Steve Whatshisface v. Bernier thing, because Babcock had said (maybe a slip of the tongue) - that Bernier wasn't doing v. hot w/him.

But Babcock has shown patience with Reimer.

but I notice something more with Babcock lately. if you give it your all and leave it all out there during the game. he's okay with that.

I can't think that even the most ardent of reimer haters can honestly state he doesn't try anything and everything possible. it may not look pretty, but damn he tries.

and babcock has acknowledged many times, about how reimer worked and trained in the off season.

and edit:

btw, good thought on potential trade, i could easily see Lou doing that. especially if babcock states.. "I want him gone." .. in either words or by interviews such as last night.

trading Reimer and keeping Bernier at the TDL isn't going to make the coach too pleased.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Yeah, Bernier is done here. I've always liked the guy but like Newfie said he's regressed in areas that used to be a strength, and I'm not sure he's even capable to be the guy he was the first season here, let alone an answer for the goaltending position.

 

[Trapper]

But Babcock has shown patience with Reimer.

but I notice something more with Babcock lately. if you give it your all and leave it all out there during the game. he's okay with that.

I can't think that even the most ardent of reimer haters can honestly state he doesn't try anything and everything possible. it may not look pretty, but damn he tries.

Reimer battles every second of every game. He's never given up once despite any other criticisms.