Jonathan Bernier - Player Discussion 2016

[happyaccident]

He could pull down his pants and take a dump on the ice while a goal is being scored and it would still be a bad bounce.

That would sure beat salutegate.

 

[81Reasons]

Most fans bought the media propaganda that he was going to be a superstar though. It certainly fed the bandwagon mentality from the get go, with lots of people buying in, especially casual fans, while another group realized that Reimer was being thrown under the bus and undervalued in his own right, and then of course there are those who don't really care either way.

I think the issue with the fan perceptions of our goalies has been the lack of objectivity. There always seems to be some underlying notions that guide people's opinions one way or the other rather than simply judging them by their play and conduct here and now rather than their play from two or five years ago, or their draft positions or other relatively irrelevant things.

I'm guilty of this too, because unfortunately it has become a cyclic thing where it becomes difficult for people on either side to discuss either goalie without bringing up past events or what have you.

For example, it's tough to come in here and congratulate Bernier for a good game because one sees, right away, a bunch of over-zealous posts about Bernier's return to superstardom and smear posts about Reimer. It's become rather sad, really, and it drags everyone down to the same level -- they dissed Reimer, so, even on an unconscious level, one ends up dissing Bernier in response, and vice versa.

I do think by the end of this season management is going to have to make a choice between one or the other, for the obvious financial reasons and because it's time to see who has earned the job by then and make a commitment to him for at least next season and then go from there.

you're 100% bang on in your assessment.

 

[rrc1967]

Bernier had a great game.

However part of me wonders why he took so long getting back into the crease with 50 seconds left of the game.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Bernier had a great game.

However part of me wonders why he took so long getting back into the crease with 50 seconds left of the game.

He was slowing down the forecheck. Probably wasn't expecting Marincin to make a tape-to-tape pass to Marchand right away.

 

[Le Cobra]

you're 100% bang on in your assessment.

I strongly agree. In this recent goal drought, I feel for both goalies. They can't be blamed for the string of losses. They are doing all they can to keep games competitive. As much as Babcock's systems are making a difference, the scoring isn't there and our goalies have stepped it up against stiff competition (LA, CHI, BOS, etc)

Those elite teams aren't in a rebuild. We are. Imagine how much more even the score will be once we get the Nylanders, Marners, Browns and possibly Stamkos.

 

[eddieO]

I strongly agree. In this recent goal drought, I feel for both goalies. They can't be blamed for the string of losses. They are doing all they can to keep games competitive. As much as Babcock's systems are making a difference, the scoring isn't there and our goalies have stepped it up against stiff competition (LA, CHI, BOS, etc)

Those elite teams aren't in a rebuild. We are. Imagine how much more even the score will be once we get the Nylanders, Marners, Browns and possibly Stamkos.

Very true. We should really have been blown out a bunch of times this year if it weren't for Bernier and Reimer.

Last night is a good example, Bernier prevented it from being a gong show.

 

[Le Cobra]

Thanks. Yeah as much as I have been critical of Bernier, I can say that he has been playing better. I still think he is inconsistent but he is way better than October. I believe he is a starting goaltender anywhere else but here. The Leafs aren't the best team to develop a goalie's confidence. It takes someone made of iron and the ability and willingness to carry a team on their back and steal games we have no business winning. It's what Potvin, Cujo, Belfour did and Reimer has done in the past and this season against the Stars.

 

[hfman]

It's what Potvin, Cujo, Belfour did and Reimer has done in the past and this season against the Stars.

Potvin, Cujo, Belfour... and Reimer. One of those guys doesn't fit

 

[OvenMittz*]

Potvin, Cujo, Belfour... and Reimer. One of those guys doesn't fit

I adored Potvin growing up.

 

[hfman]

I adored Potvin growing up.

yup, to be honest, the Leafs were blessed with quite a decent string of quality tenders. Grant Fuhr, Potvin, Cujo, Belfour- but that was it.

From there we jumped into one-hit wonders like Toskala, Tellqvist, Schwab, Raycroft, MacDonald, Kidd, Gustavsson, Clemmensen - the list goes on. Reimer and Bernier will be added to this list when they're gone, even though they both lasted a little longer than the goalies mentioned above.

Been a good 12 or 13 years now without an extended, true #1 starter. That's such a long time.

 

[hoglund]

yup, to be honest, the Leafs were blessed with quite a decent string of quality tenders. Grant Fuhr, Potvin, Cujo, Belfour- but that was it.

From there we jumped into one-hit wonders like Toskala, Tellqvist, Schwab, Raycroft, MacDonald, Kidd, Gustavsson, Clemmensen - the list goes on. Reimer and Bernier will be added to this list when they're gone, even though they both lasted a little longer than the goalies mentioned above.

Been a good 12 or 13 years now without an extended, true #1 starter. That's such a long time.

It hasn't been 12-13 years, you're close it's been 9 years since they traded Belfour at the end of the 2006 season. I know it seems more like 12-13 to me too.

 

[Le Cobra]

yup, to be honest, the Leafs were blessed with quite a decent string of quality tenders. Grant Fuhr, Potvin, Cujo, Belfour- but that was it.

From there we jumped into one-hit wonders like Toskala, Tellqvist, Schwab, Raycroft, MacDonald, Kidd, Gustavsson, Clemmensen - the list goes on. Reimer and Bernier will be added to this list when they're gone, even though they both lasted a little longer than the goalies mentioned above.

Been a good 12 or 13 years now without an extended, true #1 starter. That's such a long time.

Reimer belongs with Fuhr Potvin Cujo and Belfour. It was mentioned today during the game that Reimer is 1 of 4 goalies in Leafs history to allow 3 or fewer goals in 15 straight games. The other 3 were Cujo, Belfour, and Johnny Bower. Also, with this last win, Reimer moved into 10th all time wins for Leaf goalies.

Bernier is above those one hit wonders but is below the greats. He is closer to Gustavsson and Giguere.

 

[zeke]

yup, to be honest, the Leafs were blessed with quite a decent string of quality tenders. Grant Fuhr, Potvin, Cujo, Belfour- but that was it.

From there we jumped into one-hit wonders like Toskala, Tellqvist, Schwab, Raycroft, MacDonald, Kidd, Gustavsson, Clemmensen - the list goes on. Reimer and Bernier will be added to this list when they're gone, even though they both lasted a little longer than the goalies mentioned above.

Been a good 12 or 13 years now without an extended, true #1 starter. That's such a long time.

you have reimer in the wrong group.

 

[saltming]

This is what makes it very difficult to find a good goaltender - you need four years of data to figure out how good he is, but you can usually only get one or two. Some people would say that lets GMs off the hook when they sign a guy to a big contract and he doesn't work out. I would say that level of risk means you should bet a smaller percentage of your portfolio on goaltending.

This article says we need to evaluate 4 years of a goalies work to make a judgment, not just a season. This applies to both our guys and even then its still a gamble.

http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2010/4/20/1429278/fooled-by-randomness-goaltender

 

[1AM]

A good team has Good players that understand their rolls...

Bernier and the Leafs would do better if he(Bernier) and the Leafs understood that his(Bernier's) best position is in a Back-Roll, in the NHL

Elsewhere, only time will tell

However, Bernier is not now, nor has he never been a starter in the NHL

IMO, Bernier is simply a product of the last regimes smoke and mirrors

move him when possible.

Go Leafs Go

 

[jmart21]

A good team has Good players that understand their rolls...

Bernier and the Leafs would do better if he(Bernier) and the Leafs understood that his(Bernier's) best position is in a Back-Roll, in the NHL

Elsewhere, only time will tell

However, Bernier is not now, nor has he never been a starter in the NHL

IMO, Bernier is simply a product of the last regimes smoke and mirrors

move him when possible.

Go Leafs Go

While I agree with the idea he's not our No1, I wouldn't be in any hurry to move him. Reimer has certainly shown he's our starter, but he can't be depended on to be healthy for more than a few weeks at a time.

If Reimer didn't have a Lupul-like injury history, I'm pretty confident Bernier wouldn't be here.

 

[airbus220]

Reimer has certainly shown he's our starter, but he can't be depended on to be healthy for more than a few weeks at a time.

If Reimer didn't have a Lupul-like injury history, I'm pretty confident Bernier wouldn't be here.

Seems Reimer learnt now not to play if not 100% fit. If you don't overuse him I'm very confident that health wouldn't be a problem. Concussions of course are another story, everybody can get them and then it takes time. Another reason why you shouldn't invest much money and term into your starter, you always should have a good backup.

 

[jmart21]

Seems Reimer learnt now not to play if not 100% fit. If you don't overuse him I'm very confident that health wouldn't be a problem. Concussions of course are another story, everybody can get them and then it takes time. Another reason why you shouldn't invest much money and term into your starter, you always should have a good backup.

I don't think there's any track record to backup a claim that we should be confident that his health won't be an issue going forward. Just because he said a few weeks ago to the media that he would wait till being 100% doesn't mean he's going from a Lupul to a Phaneuf in terms of durability.

 

[1AM]

While I agree with the idea he's not our No1, I wouldn't be in any hurry to move him. Reimer has certainly shown he's our starter, but he can't be depended on to be healthy for more than a few weeks at a time.

If Reimer didn't have a Lupul-like injury history, I'm pretty confident Bernier wouldn't be here.

Well, MLS had the stove fired up over the past couple of seasons, and the smoke has still not cleared, so I understand how you could have that view.

However, in saying that, I have more confidence in the empty net, than I do in Bernier...

We need a true back up for Reim's, who was drafted by us, and, as everyone can witness, it's beginning to pay off, we do not need a distraction.....

It has been quite laughable seeing how this whole debacle has been handled by everyone involved

The timing could not be better for Reims to settle in

Bernier has already overstayed his welcome, IMO

Go Leafs Go

 

[rrc1967]

well, it certainly appears that Bernier has been relegated to doghouse and/or backup status until further notice.

To be frank, I feel bad for Bernier - I think he deserved a game after his last one, and really he's had 4 excellent starts to 1 bad start (statistically) over his last 5 games which is a damn good %.

 

[Eb]

well, it certainly appears that Bernier has been relegated to doghouse and/or backup status until further notice.

To be frank, I feel bad for Bernier - I think he deserved a game after his last one, and really he's had 4 excellent starts to 1 bad start (statistically) over his last 5 games which is a damn good %.

He won't be sitting for long at all.

We play back to back next week, 26th and 27th, down in Florida. He'll probably start the latter.

 

[eddieO]

I'm not sure what to think of Bernier's future. Will he be traded/waived?

 

[happyaccident]

Babcock is smoking something if he thinks any of those goals were remotely Bernier's fault. You couldn't even see the first goal until it was bouncing out of the net. Then that defensive dumpsterfire known as Morgan Rielly with no clue how to hande a 2-on-1 once again and oh, let's give the guy a rebound for good measure and then a harmless 2-on-2 along the boards turns into an instant Schenn breakaway while "unfortunate circumstances" Corrado stands and watches. Babcock likes to play his favorites, he's entering Randy territory throwing Bernier under the bus after that defense sh**show.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Babcock is smoking something if he thinks any of those goals were remotely Bernier's fault. You couldn't even see the first goal until it was bouncing out of the net. Then that defensive dumpsterfire known as Morgan Rielly with no clue how to hande a 2-on-1 once again and oh, let's give the guy a rebound for good measure and then a harmless 2-on-2 along the boards turns into an instant Schenn breakaway while "unfortunate circumstances" Corrado stands and watches. Babcock likes to play his favorites, he's entering Randy territory throwing Bernier under the bus after that defense sh**show.

Rielly is 21. He'll figure out the defensive game eventually. I don't really know how the 2 on 1 was poorly played either. He went down to lock the pass and let Bernier worry about the shooter.

 

[Damisoph]

Babcock is smoking something if he thinks any of those goals were remotely Bernier's fault. You couldn't even see the first goal until it was bouncing out of the net. Then that defensive dumpsterfire known as Morgan Rielly with no clue how to hande a 2-on-1 once again and oh, let's give the guy a rebound for good measure and then a harmless 2-on-2 along the boards turns into an instant Schenn breakaway while "unfortunate circumstances" Corrado stands and watches. Babcock likes to play his favorites, he's entering Randy territory throwing Bernier under the bus after that defense sh**show.

It was the trailing forward at fault on that 2 on 1...Spaling I think? Completely bailed on his man Voracek.