John Tortorella Named (Part Time) Head Coach Discussion

[dragonoffrost]

John Tortorella is a bad coach and a bad person.

There were a couple of those this year.

Plus not letting Coots play a game or two at the end when he ramped up to do so?

 

[deadhead]

It's not against Couts, but it sure as f*** is alienating. Wonder if this is considered a knock on Torts by those that favour him.

Play Couts and he gets hurt: x&#$%@ medical staff
Don't play Couts: Disrepect!!!

Cut me a break.

 

[freakydallas13]

Play Couts and he gets hurt: x&#$%@ medical staff
Don't play Couts: Disrepect!!!

Cut me a break.

I'm confused what you are getting at. Are you saying scratching Sanheim in his hometown, when his family came to watch, and not telling him why (and having Sanheim say it hurt him) isn't alienating?

I'd appreciate some clarity.

 

[Beef Invictus]

John Tortorella is a bad coach and a bad person.

He doesn't know why it happened because it wasnt a hockey issue. It was Tortorella being a dick. He sucks.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Play Couts and he gets hurt: x&#$%@ medical staff
Don't play Couts: Disrepect!!!

Cut me a break.

If Tortorella alienated Couturier you would defend it. You lied when you claimed you would criticize that. You're silent on the Sanheim/Frost scratchings which were done simply to hurt players.

 

[deadhead]

Who cares if Sanheim is alienated? I mean he just got $48M guaranteed and sucked, he was worse than Risto this year. He's 26, at some point players run out of excuses. He wants to leave town - fine, just find a team that will take your contract.

 

[Magua]

Your bias is showing.

 

[Starat327]

Lol

 

[deadhead]

Your bias is showing.

Yes. I'm biased against overpaid players who don't perform.

 

[Tripod]

I'm happy for Frost. He gave a giant f*** you to everyone who doubted him and he went and played really well in the second half. There's no reason why Farabee - Frost - Tippett is the full time 2nd line going forward. Let them run with it next season.

61 point pace his last 54 games. And yet there are another 90+ guys like that. Shows how far behind everyone else tge Flyers are.

Yes. I'm biased against overpaid players who don't perform.

Yet you defended Hayes for years....

 

[Curufinwe]

Who cares if Sanheim is alienated? I mean he just got $48M guaranteed and sucked, he was worse than Risto this year.

Not at ES scoring, or at ES defense.

Yes. I'm biased against overpaid players who don't perform.

And yet you were so hard on Frost, who scored 46 points and only made $800,000.

3rd best $/P in the league.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

 

[Beef Invictus]

Who cares if Sanheim is alienated? I mean he just got $48M guaranteed and sucked, he was worse than Risto this year. He's 26, at some point players run out of excuses. He wants to leave town - fine, just find a team that will take your contract.

Ah ok. Thanks for confirming that if Tortorella were actually alienating players you would defend it. I already knew that, but it's nice to see it confirmed.

This is like when you proclaimed that Fletcher should be fired for consecutive playoff misses and then kept right on defending him tooth and nail instead.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Did he somehow hurt Clarke's feelings?

I hope so. I remember I had tickets to meet and get autos from Brind’Amour at the carnival that year. I was so pissed I almost didn’t go.

 

[deadhead]

61 point pace his last 54 games. And yet there are another 90+ guys like that. Shows how far behind everyone else tge Flyers are.


Yet you defended Hayes for years....

I've called him overpaid for years, just like JVR and Voracek.
Pre-COVID contracts were overpays for most players.

I think Sanheim can play better than he has this season, but like Provorov, he needs the right partner, which is why his ceiling is probably 2nd pair D-man. $6M for 8 years is pretty rich for a 2nd pair guy. He's improved defensively, he's a smooth skater with good speed, but that's pretty much all there is, once he gets to the O-zone his limitations are obvious, he's not elusive (long legs hinder his agility), he's not a great playmaker and he has an average shot.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I'm happy for Frost. He gave a giant f*** you to everyone who doubted him and he went and played really well in the second half. There's no reason why Farabee - Frost - Tippett is the full time 2nd line going forward. Let them run with it next season.

I want them to keep TK and Frost together next season. They were fantastic together.

 

[freakydallas13]

Who cares if Sanheim is alienated? I mean he just got $48M guaranteed and sucked, he was worse than Risto this year. He's 26, at some point players run out of excuses. He wants to leave town - fine, just find a team that will take your contract.

Just to confirm, you do think it's alienating, but you don't care because it happens to him and not Couts?

I'm really struggling to see your rationale on this one if I'm being honest.

 

[Starat327]

Just to confirm, you do think it's alienating, but you don't care because it happens to him and not Couts?

I'm really struggling to see your rationale on this one if I'm being honest.

It's fine to alienate the guy who is about to make 50m on a new contract because he had a bad year.

It's not ok to alienate a guy who hasn't played in almost two years and is making 62M.

This isn't hard. Do try and keep up.

 

[deadhead]

Just to confirm, you do think it's alienating, but you don't care because it happens to him and not Couts?

I'm really struggling to see your rationale on this one if I'm being honest.

It probably wasn't politic, but usually these things are preceded by a stretch in which the player is letting things go in one ear and out the other.

Sanheim is one of the few players who didn't show much, if any, improvement this season.

At first I wrote it off to the new contract, then to being forced to play with TDA, but when Risto plays better with almost any other player but you, that's not a good sign.

It may be, like Provorov, both the organization and fans saw more there than there actually was.
Both players only seem to play well with the right partner, which means they're not carrying their pairs. You have to shelter Seeler, but you're paying him the league minimum. When you pay a D-man $6-7M, you want someone who's a key cog on your team, not someone who has to be baby sat.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Thanks for the laugh.

Just remember, the players always know what Torts wants because he’s always clear in communication.

Please pay no attention to all of the times we’ve heard that Torts doesn’t talk to the players.

 

[deadhead]

Funny, York had no problem figuring out what Torts wanted.
Maybe college kids are smarter?

The fact that York came up and clearly outplayed Provorov and Sanheim by a wide margin is disturbing. I think he faded a little at the end of the season, but he was still clearly the best D-man on the team at 21.

Even if players were feeling out Torts, by December 7, when JVR returned, Cates moved to center and York was brought up, they should have figure it out by then. Most of the players made significant improvements after that point, including Provorov, TDA and Risto.

 

[freakydallas13]

It probably wasn't politic, but usually these things are preceded by a stretch in which the player is letting things go in one ear and out the other.

Sanheim is one of the few players who didn't show much, if any, improvement this season.

At first I wrote it off to the new contract, then to being forced to play with TDA, but when Risto plays better with almost any other player but you, that's not a good sign.

It may be, like Provorov, both the organization and fans saw more there than there actually was.
Both players only seem to play well with the right partner, which means they're not carrying their pairs. You have to shelter Seeler, but you're paying him the league minimum. When you pay a D-man $6-7M, you want someone who's a key cog on your team, not someone who has to be baby sat.

I understand why you think Sanheim deserves to be alienated, it just seems like you have to do a bunch of mental gymnastics to make this not be something that makes you criticize Torts for, but by your own admission would criticize him for if....he did it to a different player?

I guess you're just okay with him alienating players who you think deserve it? I vehemently disagree that Sanheim deserves this treatment, but even if you think that is the case, why is it okay to alienate him? Shouldn't a good coach......avoid alienating key roster players signed to long term deals?

Not to mention how much you defend Hayes and his signing, after 2+ seasons of disappointment? Would you have supported AV/Yeo alienating Hayes last season?

 

[Starat327]

Dying on that Dec 7 hill I see.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It probably wasn't politic, but usually these things are preceded by a stretch in which the player is letting things go in one ear and out the other.

Sanheim is one of the few players who didn't show much, if any, improvement this season.

At first I wrote it off to the new contract, then to being forced to play with TDA, but when Risto plays better with almost any other player but you, that's not a good sign.

It may be, like Provorov, both the organization and fans saw more there than there actually was.
Both players only seem to play well with the right partner, which means they're not carrying their pairs. You have to shelter Seeler, but you're paying him the league minimum. When you pay a D-man $6-7M, you want someone who's a key cog on your team, not someone who has to be baby sat.

Sanheim has confirmed Tortorella didn't tell him anything. Laughton has made it clear he barely talked with him. Tortorella has said he hates talking to players these days.

Things weren't going in one ear out the other. You're just making shit up to defend Tortorella. As usual, the fantasies you make up run contrary to what we actually know.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Funny, York had no problem figuring out what Torts wanted.
Maybe college kids are smarter?

The fact that York came up and clearly outplayed Provorov and Sanheim by a wide margin is disturbing. I think he faded a little at the end of the season, but he was still clearly the best D-man on the team at 21.

Even if players were feeling out Torts, by December 7, when JVR returned, Cates moved to center and York was brought up, they should have figure it out by then. Most of the players made significant improvements after that point, including Provorov, TDA and Risto.

There is nothing special about December 7th. The roster was in constant flux the whole season, with wingers even routinely swapping sides. Sometimes dmen played forward. Cates was at center before then. This is one of those things you've made bizarre untrue fantasies about. Like Lake Tahoe.

York did not undergo a revolution. He is who he was last season.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I understand why you think Sanheim deserves to be alienated, it just seems like you have to do a bunch of mental gymnastics to make this not be something that makes you criticize Torts for, but by your own admission would criticize him for if....he did it to a different player?

I guess you're just okay with him alienating players who you think deserve it? I vehemently disagree that Sanheim deserves this treatment, but even if you think that is the case, why is it okay to alienate him? Shouldn't a good coach......avoid alienating key roster players signed to long term deals?

Not to mention how much you defend Hayes and his signing, after 2+ seasons of disappointment? Would you have supported AV/Yeo alienating Hayes last season?

He picked Couturier because Couts is a good soldier that he boldly assumes Tortorella can't manage to alienate. He assumes he'll never be in position to have to defend it. Just like how he was sure they wouldn't miss the playoffs consecutively so he didn't think he'd be in position to actually say Fletcher should be fired it that happens.

If Couturier gets alienated it will be defended, just like Fletcher was.