John Tortorella Named (Part Time) Head Coach Discussion

[flyersnorth]

Going after high priced FAs would be a bad move

That is what will happen, though.

Fletcher is welcome at my poker table any day.

 

[PhillyWings]

That is what will happen, though.

Fletcher is welcome at my poker table any day.

Who wants to play here though? Philly is probably near the bottom of the list for any top end free agent.

 

[deadhead]

That is what will happen, though.

Fletcher is welcome at my poker table any day.

Let's see. If they were wavering, the Farabee news may tip the scales.

The fact that Torts was so noncommittal about a schedule to start winning, suggests this may have been discussed when he was hired, that he thinks the team is 2-3 years away.

 

[flyersnorth]

Who wants to play here though? Philly is probably near the bottom of the list for any top end free agent.

Gaudreau, for one. Maybe Kadri. Forsberg?

Not many teams will be in a position to sign top free agents, and the musical chairs will stop at one point. Maybe Philly isn't their top choice, but when you run out of choices, then you take the multimillion dollar offer still standing.

The point I was making is that Fletcher has telegraphed all his moves. This team will be aggressive in the offseason. It probably won't work out the way they imagine it will, but it will be aggressive, and they will shake up the roster.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Not according to advanced metrics, they were actually slightly better.
Probably b/c they were working in players like Cates, Tippett, Attard, Zamula, Hogberg down the stretch.
Any improvement this year will come from Torts getting more out of those young players.

I'm talking about how they've steadily become worse the longer Fletcher is here.

 

[flyersnorth]

Let's see. If they were wavering, the Farabee news may tip the scales.

The fact that Torts was so noncommittal about a schedule to start winning, suggests this may have been discussed when he was hired, that he thinks the team is 2-3 years away.

Sounds like Farabee will only miss the first few weeks of the season - hardly concerning enough to derail their offseason plans.

 

[mja]

Let's see. If they were wavering, the Farabee news may tip the scales.

The fact that Torts was so noncommittal about a schedule to start winning, suggests this may have been discussed when he was hired, that he thinks the team is 2-3 years away.

Who wants to play here though? Philly is probably near the bottom of the list for any top end free agent.

We're going to overpay for filler, again. We'll even give it a NMC.

 

[TheKingPin]

Unless they sign Gaudreau, the Flyers will be closer to 0 points than 120 next season. They had 61 points last season....with 57 games of Giroux in the lineup.

Also, your entire post is bullshit. No one here WANTS the team to be a total hopeless abject failure and I don't know why that narrative exists. If Torts does a great job and the team plays great and looks like a contender, he will get praise...just like AV did in the 2nd half of 19-20. Neither of those things will happen though.

How productive will be be here though? This team can’t score. Terrible pp too. I think he would be a 60 pt player here maybe.

Sounds like Farabee will only miss the first few weeks of the season - hardly concerning enough to derail their offseason plans.

But he’s not going to train or carry weight the entire summer. It’s going to be 1/2 the year before hes noticeable imo. He’s one of the few that could score. You are down to TK and his 20 goals.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Not according to advanced metrics, they were actually slightly better.
Probably b/c they were working in players like Cates, Tippett, Attard, Zamula, Hogberg down the stretch.
Any improvement this year will come from Torts getting more out of those young players.

They were significantly worse at 5v5 this year by CF% and every xGF% model that sprang to mind. How did you judge this?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

They were significantly worse at 5v5 this year by CF% and every xGF% model that sprang to mind. How did you judge this?

First 62 games:
5x5: GF/60: 2.21, GA/60: 2.63; xGF 45.10%, xGF/60: 2.26, xGA/60: 2.75, PP, GF/60: 4.76 xGF/60: 6.52 PK, GA/60: 8.94, xGA/60: 7.66

Last 20 games:
5x5: GF/60: 2.39, GA/60: 2.87; xGF 45.73%, xGF/60: 2.31, xGA/60: 2.74, PP, GF/60: 4.26 xGF/60: 6.73 PK, GA/60: 8.72, xGA/60: 8.80

Nothing like small sample sizes that results in quite a few worse outputs but gotta cling onto those couple that are better for dear life.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Nothing like small sample sizes that results in quite a few worse outputs but gotta cling onto those couple that are better for dear life.

Ok, that's just weird. Here's a timeline of their 5 game rolling averages. I marked December 6th because that was the Vigneault firing.

The only way to frame this argument as Fletcher making the team better is that jettisoning some of the guys he acquired helped. Doesn't seem like a positive to me. It's also worth noting that their peak was in February before the TDL.

 

[Rebels57]

Gaudreau, for one. Maybe Kadri. Forsberg?

Not many teams will be in a position to sign top free agents, and the musical chairs will stop at one point. Maybe Philly isn't their top choice, but when you run out of choices, then you take the multimillion dollar offer still standing.

The point I was making is that Fletcher has telegraphed all his moves. This team will be aggressive in the offseason. It probably won't work out the way they imagine it will, but it will be aggressive, and they will shake up the roster.

There's no information in 2022 to substantiate the claim that Johnny wants to play for the Flyers for the next 7 years.

Forsberg? No chance.

Kadri? If we overpay, which would be terrible, but we might do it if we miss out on Johnny.

 

[renberg]

Do not want Kadri for a lot of reasons. The simplest one is that he will be 32 in October. Signing him, you'd be paying for his past and a declining future in the near time.
I doubt if Gaudreau would come here short of a massive overpay which would hamstring the club going forward. If a player is going to get McDavid or Matthews type money, they need to be McDavid or Matthews. No offense but he's not one of them.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Signing either JG or Kadri is a win-immediately signing for a team that won't be close to winning until they're well into their declines.

 

[deadhead]

They were significantly worse at 5v5 this year by CF% and every xGF% model that sprang to mind. How did you judge this?

He was talking about with and without Giroux, so first 62 games v last 20.

Now this doesn't mean G isn't a good player, but he's a complementary player, he couldn't lift his teammates here, in Florida he didn't need to. When he left, both Hayes got healthy but also they started playing the kids and the team got faster.

The weird thing this year is how far they fell with regard to metrics from 2020-21. Ghost played part-time, Voracek and NAK had the worst metrics among starting forwards in 2020-21 - so it's not as simple as "we got rid of these guys and looked what happened!"

I think AV just mailed it in and the team followed suit, and could never get over its malaise.
And when the injuries piled up, it was all she wrote.

 

[Magua]

Gosh, when the Flyers win the President’s Trophy this season with 120 points, you guys are going to look like utter fools. But not half as foolish as when Kevin Hayes wins the Hart, under Torts’ tutelage. Just wait, you prideful bastards will see, and you’ll still act bitter. (I just won the lottery, so this is probably my last post here.)

 

[deadhead]

Gosh, when the Flyers win the President’s Trophy this season with 120 points, you guys are going to look like fools. But not half as foolish as when Kevin Hayes wins the Hart, under Torts’ tutelage. Just wait, you prideful bastards will see.

Given Torts track record of either lifting players up or running them out of town, Hayes is a good bet to either compete for the Hart or have a new address in 2023-24.

AV did get a big jump out of this team in 2019-20, but like Lavi and most Dino HCs, his magic seems to work better with veterans, at least for a limited period (1 year is a bit unusual, it usually takes 3-4 years before things cave in, see Gallant).

Torts does have a track record of jump starting young teams.

At least it'll be fun to watch.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He was talking about with and without Giroux, so first 62 games v last 20.

Now this doesn't mean G isn't a good player, but he's a complementary player, he couldn't lift his teammates here, in Florida he didn't need to. When he left, both Hayes got healthy but also they started playing the kids and the team got faster.

The weird thing this year is how far they fell with regard to metrics from 2020-21. Ghost played part-time, Voracek and NAK had the worst metrics among starting forwards in 2020-21 - so it's not as simple as "we got rid of these guys and looked what happened!"

I think AV just mailed it in and the team followed suit, and could never get over its malaise.
And when the injuries piled up, it was all she wrote.

No, I was talking about how Fletcher made the team worse. A thing that happened long before he traded Giroux. Which also made the team worse.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Mike Ehrmantraut on the Flyers' offseason:

 

[flyersnorth]

But he’s not going to train or carry weight the entire summer. It’s going to be 1/2 the year before hes noticeable imo. He’s one of the few that could score. You are down to TK and his 20 goals.

For sure, it will take him a while to be effective again... at least I think it will. I still don't think it will stop Fletch from tripping over his own feet to be aggressive.

Now, if they got word that Ellis is out to start the season, then I think that's a different story.

There's no information in 2022 to substantiate the claim that Johnny wants to play for the Flyers for the next 7 years.

Forsberg? No chance.

Kadri? If we overpay, which would be terrible, but we might do it if we miss out on Johnny.

I'd say there's a >50% chance that one of those 3 ends up in Philly. I mean, the team blows, management blows, but it's not a shithole. $70M bucks is $70M bucks.

 

[FLYguy3911]

This thread is very reminiscent of the Risto thread last year. "Just give him a chance". As if there's not enough information for people to form their own opinions.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

This thread is very reminiscent of the Risto thread last year. "Just give him a chance". As if there's not enough information for people to form their own opinions.

You probably want the Flyers to stink so that you can be right.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Who can judge a coach with only 1200 games? You need at least 2500 to know.

 

[renberg]

Now, if they got word that Ellis is out to start the season, then I think that's a different story.

Correct me if I am wrong but in the beginning of May didn't Ellis and Fletcher indicate that the player was going to begin a workout regimen that should show results in six to eight weeks; in other words before the draft? I'd hope that the Flyers have a report on the success/failure of the new training that Ellis is doing. If he's recovering, that's one thing. If not, then it'll be LTIR for Ellis and forget about his future career unless he has a surgical procedure that will fix his issues.

 

[flyersnorth]

Correct me if I am wrong but in the beginning of May didn't Ellis and Fletcher indicate that the player was going to begin a workout regimen that should show results in six to eight weeks; in other words before the draft? I'd hope that the Flyers have a report on the success/failure of the new training that Ellis is doing. If he's recovering, that's one thing. If not, then it'll be LTIR for Ellis and forget about his future career unless he has a surgical procedure that will fix his issues.​

Good question.. I don't remember that specifically, but I do recall the workout regimen instead of surgery. I'm interested to hear an update on that.