John Tortorella Named (Part Time) Head Coach Discussion

[Striiker]

The locker room "issues" just sound to me like a GM that has run out of reasons to explain the performance of the shitty roster he assembled - especially after last offseason's massive makeover was supposed to fix that.

This is the obvious correct read of the situation.

They’re blaming the personalities and what happens behind closed doors (which means we cant see proof… how convenient) because that’s the last way to blame the players without also blaming Fletcher for his on-ice evaluations of them.

This team is equally as transparent as they are incompetent. Luckily they’re continually shooting them selves in the foot and it’s only a matter of time until they bleed out.

 

[deadhead]

Outside of 2019-20, over the last decade, what Flyer teams would you say "played hard?" What Flyer players?

This hasn't been a hard team to play against for a long time, even when they're good, it's more about skill.
Hakstol and Berube were more conservative, play it safe, and the team has lacked the speed to play an aggressive style for at least a decade.

 

[Rebels57]

Torts is one of the few people I can tolerate on the current Flyers roster and management.



Atkinson probably told Torts about this strain in the locker-room...

My guess it that the divide in the lockeroom is between Hayes' boys and then guys like Couturier, Sanheim, etc. that are the polar opposite of them.

 

[deadhead]

What Hayes' boys? There's Hayes and Atkinson. That's it.

Couts came in with G, Voracek, etc. He's the "last man standing" from that group. Unless you count JVR.

Provorov, TK, Sanheim came in pretty much together.

Farabee, Frost together.

York, Tippett, N Cates, Allison, Laczynski, etc. are new comers. Same with Deslauriers and TDA.

Braun came in with AV, Risto just last year.

There's no obvious cliques here.

 

[Curufinwe]

Eh, why would Couturier be very different than a guy like Atkinson.

There's clearly a divide between Provorov and some of the other players cause the guy thinks he's infallible, despite his very obvious struggles.

It would also not surprise me if some of the good players resent a guy like Risto coming in after a career of being a bad defenseman in Buffalo, having another bad year, and then being rewarded with a fat new contract.

 

[Rebels57]

Is your sole purpose of being on this board to cause confrontation?

Do I think it was the only reason? No but it nearly certainly played a role. Their friendship was immediately talked about when they acquired him. It’s played up.

Yandle, Atkinson, Brassard, and Patrick Brown (who went to Boston College). I don’t have a clue if Brown has a connection with Hayes but the constant BC crap is hard to ignore.

Bruh, it took you this long to ask this question?

Eh, why would Couturier be very different than a guy like Atkinson.

I don't know enough about Atkinson other than he always says what he thinks people want to hear and his speaks in cliches...but I do know that he is part of the Hayes clique.

 

[flyersnorth]

I do think the line of entertaining, and embarrassing might be crossed frequently. It’s always not a good sign when the coach of a team is made to be the primary attraction.

I am open to giving him a shot with an open mind.

Those BSH podcasts are a struggle in later summer months eh? Even they have a challenge to come up with material.

Same here. I'm keeping an open mind on Torts.

It's not a great position to be in - I want the Flyers to be good and win because it's nice to watch good hockey. On the flipside, I honestly don't think they're set up for long term sustainability without at least having another high pick or two.

We'll see. Hard to believe camp opens next week for rookies and the week after for the full squad.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If Hayes ran anything, JG would be a FLyer - the two had an awesome season together in college.
The problems in the clubhouse go back to at least 2018-19 and probably earlier.
They ran Berube out of town, Hakstol couldn't get consistent effort out of them, they rolled Gordon, AV lost them by his second season.

I don't think it's an awful clubhouse, rather, a team that lacks heart, whenever they face adversity, they seem to fold like a house of cards - when things are going well they don't seem to have a lot of conflict - but when things go wrong, the effort seems to wane.

I think Torts will give everyone a clean slate, but some will be on double secret probation.

Outside of spurts like early 2020, when has this team been hard to play against? I don't mean fighting, I mean the kind of 200 foot, consistent pressure that wears opponents down, consistent effort shift to shift. Laughton, Pitlick, who else put out that kind of effort?

Berube ran himself out of town. He did a bad job.

You're just making things up. Do you know how many times this roster has been turned over?

 

[freakydallas13]

The locker room "issues" just sound to me like a GM that has run out of reasons to explain the performance of the shitty roster he assembled - especially after last offseason's massive makeover was supposed to fix that.

Every single player on the roster minus JVR was resigned, brought in, or drafted by Charles Entertainment Fletcher. Management can't throw Hextall under the bus anymore to cover their tracks because the roster has Chuck's shit-stamp all over it.

If there are locker room issues on this roster, they are there because of Chuck. Which is especially hilarious considering he spent all of last off season waxing poetic about how he was fixing the team's culture.

Tripling down and Hayes and friends as the solution to the manufactured locker room issue has already blown up in their face. What do they do if it still isn't fixed after this year? Trade Coots and Laughton? There are maybe half a dozen players left on the roster that precede chuck, how much roster and coach turnover is one GM allowed before it's obvious he's had enough rope to hang himself years ago?

 

[Beef Invictus]

If friendship with Hayes wasn't an important factor last year, then why did management keep highlighting it?

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

It's especially hilarious that DH chose to mysteriously omit Atkinson from the list of the Hayes Friends given that I do believe he was one of the people trumpeting the supposedly legendary chemistry between the two in college. But now that that's backfired it's time to pretend it didn't exist.

I don’t hate Atkinson. Despite a shit season and a shit roster I don’t think he was a problem. Yandle obviously was and it was a shit show from the start

 

[Striiker]

If friendship with Hayes wasn't an important factor last year, then why did management keep highlighting it?

It's just a coincidence that we keep adding players he's friends with and then the media and team shove that fact down our throat while swearing that it'll help the team. Complete fluke coincidence. Yup. Sure.

 

[dats81]

Where does that rumor come from that there is a divide in the locker room?

Torts in that interview was paraphrasing around players NOT holding each other accountable and NOT pushing each other to give their all every single day. That is not a divided locker room imho. Lack of vision and questionable work ethic more like those things, and Torts will light a fire under their buts to change that.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

It's just a coincidence that we keep adding players he's friends with and then the media and team shove that fact down our throat while swearing that it'll help the team. Complete fluke coincidence. Yup. Sure.

What friends of his were added this summer?

 

[Striiker]

Whenever people make up this lazy nonsense I always ask them to give me an example of a player who is lazy and isn't trying.

I'm still waiting for someone to give me a single real example. Funny how that works.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Torts being predictable. He did the same thing with Hartsy, making sure everyone knows the lockerroom is his and his alone when work starts.

His latest rant is nothing more than letting Hayes and his super friends know he's in charge and challenging them

By end of camp he will be singing everyone's praises on how they rose to the occasion

 

[freakydallas13]

Whenever people make up this lazy nonsense I always ask them to give me an example of a player who is lazy and isn't trying.

I'm still waiting for someone to give me a single real example. Funny how that works.

Hayes is the go-to example here.

 

[Striiker]

Hayes is the go-to example here.

I’ll shit on Hayes as much as any non-Cap human ever could, but I think his problem is being stupid as f***, not that he isn’t trying.

Plus, people have been making these claims since loooong before he was on the team. Even about guys like Giroux.

 

[renberg]

My guess it that the divide in the lockeroom is between Hayes' boys and then guys like Couturier, Sanheim, etc. that are the polar opposite of them.

IDK that it is Couturier, Sanheim, etc. who are off with Hayes or not. It could be others that are. IIRC, and I could be wrong, but when Tippett, Cates and Attard came on board and started to play well, there was some rumbling from unnamed players about the fact that the new guys were getting PT and taking it for them. Someone, possibly Cates, sort of laughed off the criticism but I believe that it was out there. It probably was the Hayes, Yandle group that was doing the whining.
This mess in the locker room was apparent early on in the season. One of the reasons that I soured fast on Yeo is that he knew it and did nothing. When Vigneault was canned, he had the capacity to intervene and put an end to it some of the stuff. Instead the Cowardly Lion just let things continue. No wonder the club didn't improve it's play after the coaching change.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Charles Entertainment Fletcher.

I'm so happy I'm not the only one who calls him this

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I’ll shit on Hayes as much as any non-Cap human ever could, but I think his problem is being stupid as f***, not that he isn’t trying.

Plus, people have been making these claims since loooong before he was on the team. Even about guys like Giroux.

imagine thinking Hayes isnt going to be the new C..

 

[Rich Nixon]

This is the obvious correct read of the situation.

They’re blaming the personalities and what happens behind closed doors (which means we cant see proof… how convenient) because that’s the last way to blame the players without also blaming Fletcher for his on-ice evaluations of them.

This team is equally as transparent as they are incompetent. Luckily they’re continually shooting them selves in the foot and it’s only a matter of time until they bleed out.

I'd say there are likely a number of problem players in the room, but those are the result of the massive coaching turnover and mismanagement trickling down.

Hextall seems to have created a kind of shitty environment that festered under the lamppost of a coach he had at the helm for years; Fletcher came in and, because he's brainless, had no read on the situation or the team's needs so just brought in a bunch of dickhead Big Name egotistical coach losers who couldn't be bothered to work the players into real cohesion.

Run that through a couple garbage interim coaches and godawful roster decisions and you probably created some shitty personalities--guys who, in a stable and smart franchise, would be ideal pros. Now you probably have a number of bitter, checked-out players who don't trust the organization (I kinda get the feel Provorov and Konecny are in or near this boat) and a bunch of new additions who they don't know that well and aren't good at hockey. I've worked a number of jobs where I've had a rotating cast of dolt managers, you think I gave it my all and did my best work in those situations?

Young players get completely alienated and frustrated by the franchise, and yet the franchise still expects them to act as good soldiers who will prop up the awful roster they built. It's a spiraling situation, and now they get to blame the players themselves for turning into the half-assed, checked-out underachievers that such blundering inevitably creates.

 

[deadhead]

Lots of players have been issues. Not just Yandle, and not just last year.

Jake even admitted to being out of shape, and other than 2019-20, he half-assed on defense.
JVR was out of shape for the 2020 playoffs and has always been inconsistent off the puck.
NAK's motor ran hot and cold, he had long stretches where he'd go MIA.
And so on.

A better question is who has shown a consistent high motor? Pitlick, Laughton, PEB, who else?
Couts and G were smart and efficient, but they didn't fly around the ice.

I think the best thing Torts will do for this team is require they play at high intensity, and expose the players who lack the speed, stamina or motor to keep up. To play an aggressive forecheck and consistently backcheck, your forwards have to skate hard the entire shift, not glide to conserve energy for when the puck comes their way.

And same on the PK, an aggressive PK takes a lot of energy from the two forwards at the top of the box, chasing the puck and keeping the opposing PP from easily setting up a good shot.

This may mean some players surprise, someone like Willman might look better in this sort of scheme where speed and a high motor can compensate for limited skills, and it should be conducive for players like Frost and Tippett and TK.

But that's why they play the games. It will be an interesting season.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I've been hearing all about how the next coach will be the one to get everyone to play in shape since Stevens was fired.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

imagine thinking Hayes isnt going to be the new C..

Yeah, just like they were going to re-sign Yandle & Thompson.