John Tortorella Named (Part Time) Head Coach Discussion

[flyersnorth]

I actually don’t hate Torts. Yet being the key word. I’m open to giving him a chance at least.

Even if he gets them playing better, the ceiling is ultimately nothing to cheer about. He can work miracles, but without a commitment to some high end picks for a few years - his work is essentially for naught.

At the very least, he will be entertaining behind the bench and in front of the mic.

I see it very similarly - and Charlie O basically said the same thing the other day. The best case scenario for the Flyers this year under Torts (as the organization sees it... possible playoff berth) is actually the worst case scenario for the Flyers.

 

[BernieParent]

It is quite remarkable that, despite dealing away the "problem" players who spoke out publicly (Gostisbehere and Voracek) and the longstanding team captain, the new coach has identified locker room problems as his greatest priority. This was the same issue that Fletcher et al had set out last off-season to remedy and they brought in leaders and other character players to improve things.

I am also skeptical about how great an issue this is given that "fixing" the locker room is Tortorella's sweet spot. When you're a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Not to mention that this fixing will happen behind closed doors so there is no ongoing witnessing of progress or lack thereof in an intangible matter. I anticipate a lot of reporting words admiringly describing the fiery speeches and yelling by the coach on the other side of the closed door to bring "accountability" to the roster.

 

[04hockey]

correctomundo.....why was the "great offensive defenseman"
WAIVED ?
W-A-I-V-E-D

 

[blackjackmulligan]

This is known as a strawman argument

Is it now. Wasn't an argument in any way. It was a statement.

So we’re just ignoring the fact that he’s also friends with Atkinson?

Yeah, they didn’t give it a second thought when the season was lost but they had the thought the entire season leading up to that point. Keith Yandle was awful and defending him and Chuck is a losing endeavor.

They brought in, I don’t know, six players last year? Four were close to Hayes. I’m sure that’s just a coincidence.

So do you think they traded for Cam because of his friendship with Hayes?

Who are the 4? Cam, Yandle, ?, and ?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Is it now. Wasn't an argument in any way. It was a statement.


So do you think they traded for Cam because of his friendship with Hayes?

Who are the 4? Cam, Yandle, ?, and ?

A false statement.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Is it now. Wasn't an argument in any way. It was a statement.


So do you think they traded for Cam because of his friendship with Hayes?

Who are the 4? Cam, Yandle, ?, and ?

Is your sole purpose of being on this board to cause confrontation?

Do I think it was the only reason? No but it nearly certainly played a role. Their friendship was immediately talked about when they acquired him. It’s played up.

Yandle, Atkinson, Brassard, and Patrick Brown (who went to Boston College). I don’t have a clue if Brown has a connection with Hayes but the constant BC crap is hard to ignore.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The only reason it's known is because the team and Hayes made sure to make it known.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Also, the one player that Torts called out during his introductory press conference as wanting more out of him was Hayes. Now Torts is calling out the locker room as something being wrong.

Gee, I wonder what the cause is.

I’m all for Torts if he makes Hayes’ life a living hell.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's especially hilarious that DH chose to mysteriously omit Atkinson from the list of the Hayes Friends given that I do believe he was one of the people trumpeting the supposedly legendary chemistry between the two in college. But now that that's backfired it's time to pretend it didn't exist.

 

[FlyerNutter]

At the very least, he will be entertaining behind the bench and in front of the mic.

I see it very similarly - and Charlie O basically said the same thing the other day. The best case scenario for the Flyers this year under Torts (as the organization sees it... possible playoff berth) is actually the worst case scenario for the Flyers.

I do think the line of entertaining, and embarrassing might be crossed frequently. It’s always not a good sign when the coach of a team is made to be the primary attraction.

I am open to giving him a shot with an open mind.

Those BSH podcasts are a struggle in later summer months eh? Even they have a challenge to come up with material.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I do think the line of entertaining, and embarrassing might be crossed frequently. It’s always not a good sign when the coach of a team is made to be the primary attraction.

I am open to giving him a shot with an open mind.

Those BSH podcasts are a struggle in later summer months eh? Even they have a challenge to come up with material.

I remain worried that Fletcher and Tortorella will be too eager to cater to each other's most obsolete preferences.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Also just regarding the room. I’m not sure how one can expect it to be a good environment. I mean, the laughable references last season to bringing in all the “good guys” by Fletcher aside…

When you’ve been shit for years, it would be weird for everyone to get along super well. I’m sure there is a belief that effort is a problem from those in management, but effort is such a sick fixation with this club.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Is your sole purpose of being on this board to cause confrontation?

Do I think it was the only reason? No but it nearly certainly played a role. Their friendship was immediately talked about when they acquired him. It’s played up.

Yandle, Atkinson, Brassard, and Patrick Brown (who went to Boston College). I don’t have a clue if Brown has a connection with Hayes but the constant BC crap is hard to ignore.

So asking question and responding to post is causing confrontation? I guess it is the USA in 2022. Sad really.

So you think chuck said hey I m gonna trade Jake. Let me see who his friends are, then call those teams up to see if they are interested. It played no role, you are smarter than that. No way it can be Columbus was the only team interested right?

Yandle I agree with that Hayes played a part. The other 2 absolutely not. IMO that is just conspiracy nonsense.

A false statement.

Yes you make many.

 

[deadhead]

It's especially hilarious that DH chose to mysteriously omit Atkinson from the list of the Hayes Friends given that I do believe he was one of the people trumpeting the supposedly legendary chemistry between the two in college. But now that that's backfired it's time to pretend it didn't exist.

If Hayes ran anything, JG would be a FLyer - the two had an awesome season together in college.
The problems in the clubhouse go back to at least 2018-19 and probably earlier.
They ran Berube out of town, Hakstol couldn't get consistent effort out of them, they rolled Gordon, AV lost them by his second season.

I don't think it's an awful clubhouse, rather, a team that lacks heart, whenever they face adversity, they seem to fold like a house of cards - when things are going well they don't seem to have a lot of conflict - but when things go wrong, the effort seems to wane.

I think Torts will give everyone a clean slate, but some will be on double secret probation.

Outside of spurts like early 2020, when has this team been hard to play against? I don't mean fighting, I mean the kind of 200 foot, consistent pressure that wears opponents down, consistent effort shift to shift. Laughton, Pitlick, who else put out that kind of effort?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

So asking question and responding to post is causing confrontation? I guess it is the USA in 2022. Sad really.

So you think chuck said hey I m gonna trade Jake. Let me see who his friends are, then call those teams up to see if they are interested. It played no role, you are smarter than that. No way it can be Columbus was the only team interested right?

Yandle I agree with that Hayes played a part. The other 2 absolutely not. IMO that is just conspiracy nonsense.


Yes you make many.

Did I say that he did that? No I said that it played a role. We've heard about how the locker room has had issues in the past. Chuck Fletcher talked about it last year at length.

What better way to make the locker room not awful than to bring in a bunch of "lovable" goofball friends of the guy your organization markets the most? That was Chuck Fletcher's thinking and as per usual it didn't work.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

If Hayes ran anything, JG would be a FLyer - the two had an awesome season together in college.
The problems in the clubhouse go back to at least 2018-19 and probably earlier.
They ran Berube out of town, Hakstol couldn't get consistent effort out of them, they rolled Gordon, AV lost them by his second season.

I don't think it's an awful clubhouse, rather, a team that lacks heart, whenever they face adversity, they seem to fold like a house of cards - when things are going well they don't seem to have a lot of conflict - but when things go wrong, the effort seems to wane.

I think Torts will give everyone a clean slate, but some will be on double secret probation.

Outside of spurts like early 2020, when has this team been hard to play against? I don't mean fighting, I mean the kind of 200 foot, consistent pressure that wears opponents down, consistent effort shift to shift. Laughton, Pitlick, who else put out that kind of effort?

If Dave Scott or Paul Holmgren ran anything, Johnny Gaudreau would be a Flyer.

The problems in the clubhouse are that the team on the ice is awful because they're stuck in the past focusing on archaic roles rather than being in the 21st century of hockey.

 

[FLYguy3911]

The locker room "issues" just sound to me like a GM that has run out of reasons to explain the performance of the shitty roster he assembled - especially after last offseason's massive makeover was supposed to fix that.

 

[deadhead]

So we’re just ignoring the fact that he’s also friends with Atkinson?

Yeah, they didn’t give it a second thought when the season was lost but they had the thought the entire season leading up to that point. Keith Yandle was awful and defending him and Chuck is a losing endeavor.

They brought in, I don’t know, six players last year? Four were close to Hayes. I’m sure that’s just a coincidence.

People are conveniently forgetting that Voracek had negative value with that contract - Seattle didn't want him for that reason, CBJ couldn't move him this off-season - with two years left, he has less value than JVR.

The only way they could move Jake was find a player with an equivalent contract.
That's how they ended up with Atkinson.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

People are conveniently forgetting that Voracek had negative value with that contract - Seattle didn't want him for that reason, CBJ couldn't move him this off-season - with two years left, he has less value than JVR.

The only way they could move Jake was find a player with an equivalent contract.
That's how they ended up with Atkinson.

There's also the option of not moving him for the sake of moving him. You can spare us the "AV/Scott" talk in your response.

Seattle has done a bunch of bonehead things thus far especially when it came to the Expansion draft. Were there any reports that the Blue Jackets were attempting to move him or are you just basing it off of the Bjorkstrand deal?

The line of thinking that no one wants those players while at the same time continuously harping about how easy it's going to be to move players like Hayes and Atkinson in the future will never not make me laugh.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Did I say that he did that? No I said that it played a role. We've heard about how the locker room has had issues in the past. Chuck Fletcher talked about it last year at length.

What better way to make the locker room not awful than to bring in a bunch of "lovable" goofball friends of the guy your organization markets the most? That was Chuck Fletcher's thinking and as per usual it didn't work.

His friendship played no role in him acquiring Cam. It was a simple hockey trade. Nothing more.

What bunch ofloveable goofballs were brought in?

If Hayes ran anything, JG would be a FLyer - the two had an awesome season together in college.
The problems in the clubhouse go back to at least 2018-19 and probably earlier.
They ran Berube out of town, Hakstol couldn't get consistent effort out of them, they rolled Gordon, AV lost them by his second season.

I don't think it's an awful clubhouse, rather, a team that lacks heart, whenever they face adversity, they seem to fold like a house of cards - when things are going well they don't seem to have a lot of conflict - but when things go wrong, the effort seems to wane.

I think Torts will give everyone a clean slate, but some will be on double secret probation.

Outside of spurts like early 2020, when has this team been hard to play against? I don't mean fighting, I mean the kind of 200 foot, consistent pressure that wears opponents down, consistent effort shift to shift. Laughton, Pitlick, who else put out that kind of effort?

These players have accepted losing. How is the coach going to turn that around while they continue to lose games? In time with the same result of prior coaches they will quit yet again.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

His friendship played no role in him acquiring Cam. It was a simple hockey trade. Nothing more.

What bunch ofloveable goofballs were brought in?


These players have accepted losing. How is the coach going to turn that around while they continue to lose games? In time with the same result of prior coaches they will quit yet again.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

So Brown and Brassard are loveable goofballs? When did Brassard get this reputation as a loveable goofball? Hell even Yandle for that matter.

You dislike Hayes. Therefore you and others look at any possible angle to hate on no matter how ridiculous it sounds. The fact you think Hayes had anything to do with those 2 being on the Flyers is funny as hell to me.

Wasn't it Ray Emery who said hate is healthy? Or something to that effect?

 

[deadhead]

There's also the option of not moving him for the sake of moving him. You can spare us the "AV/Scott" talk in your response.

Seattle has done a bunch of bonehead things thus far especially when it came to the Expansion draft. Were there any reports that the Blue Jackets were attempting to move him or are you just basing it off of the Bjorkstrand deal?

The line of thinking that no one wants those players while at the same time continuously harping about how easy it's going to be to move players like Hayes and Atkinson in the future will never not make me laugh.

You can move players if you're willing to eat salary, but that requires a commitment to building from within, because it makes it harder to add free agents. Which to me is a good thing, I think for the most part free agency is a fool's errand.

Bjorkstrand had 19-19 38 at ES, Voracek 4-33 37.
Bjorkstrand is 27, Jake is 33.
Would you have kept Jake over Bjorkstrand?

CBJ was shopping Jake and Nyquist, with no takers. Because 25 of 32 teams are at or above the cap.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

So Brown and Brassard are loveable goofballs? When did Brassard get this reputation as a loveable goofball? Hell even Yandle for that matter.

You dislike Hayes. Therefore you and others look at any possible angle to hate on no matter how ridiculous it sounds. The fact you think Hayes had anything to do with those 2 being on the Flyers is funny as hell to me.

Wasn't it Ray Emery who said hate is healthy? Or something to that effect?

Yandle has a cult following.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Yandle has a cult following.

ok honestly don't recall him ever being considered a goof is all.