John Tavares has taken that next step.

[shaner8989]

He’s trying and working hard. He just sucks. It’s horrible to watch.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Tavares' game is cooked right now because he's struggling at carrying the puck from Point A to Point B. It's not just his feet are behind the play, his hands are looking janky too. Compare and contrast this to a guy like Spezza who is old and slow too, but finds ways to transition the puck with speed on occasion. It's like you can't tell which guy is 37 on league minimum.

That basically cuts out a good 75% of the open ice between the dots and limits him to doing tenacious board work, applying back pressure in defensive situations, winning face offs and being a good net front garbage goal hunter. Because his mobility is so limited, he's really panicked to get the puck off his stick before he's swarmed, so you see a lot of errant passes nowhere when he wins a battle along the boards, and whips the puck at the net like better get something on net than nothing.

That was a good summation of his 'hope' passes he does this year. He just blindly throws the puck out to areas where he hopes someone will be...and he also does it in our zone as well. The hope passes rarely connect and I am wondering if he is playing 5-D chess while the others are playing 2-D. or....it could be he is lacking confidence so badly that he doesn't trust holding it long and treats it like a hot potato. All I know is I can't stand watching him muff up constantly...it should be embarrassing to him.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Good grief some of these posts are so stupid. He's still generating a ton of chances for himself and his line mates. Relax.

Controls 54% xG, 55% of the high danger chances, 54% of the total scoring chances at 5v5. He's shooting 6.67% on ice at 5v5, it'll regress to something more reasonable and a lot of these posts will look really stupid.

Tavares has always been slow, and he always will be slow. This isn't something that just happened this year. Patrice Bergeron is slow and still a damn good player. Speed doesn't make or break players.

It's clearly confirmation bias, the same thing stupid opinion that so many Leaf fans have about Thornton on the first line. The data doesn't back up their stupid opinions, they aren't the best skaters, so they suck and are useless.

 

[hockeyes]

Tavares needs to make quicker plays and not hold onto the puck so much. I have no idea why he even tries to skate it through the neutral zone, he gets caught every single time unless there is some sort of positioning breakdown.

 

[hotpaws]

Good grief some of these posts are so stupid. He's still generating a ton of chances for himself and his line mates. Relax.

Controls 54% xG, 55% of the high danger chances, 54% of the total scoring chances at 5v5. He's shooting 6.67% on ice at 5v5, it'll regress to something more reasonable and a lot of these posts will look really stupid.

Tavares has always been slow, and he always will be slow. This isn't something that just happened this year. Patrice Bergeron is slow and still a damn good player. Speed doesn't make or break players.

It's clearly confirmation bias, the same thing stupid opinion that so many Leaf fans have about Thornton on the first line. The data doesn't back up their stupid opinions, they aren't the best skaters, so they suck and are useless.

if he was generating a "ton" of chances for himself as well as his linemates and the puck was simply not going in no one would have a issue with him , unfortunately the facts are he's played like shit when he moves away from the opposing net

this is going to go the way of the Phaneuf threads where people refused to accept that he is just that bad because he's Dion Phaneuf and name recognition goes a long way with fans

 

[Mr Hockey]

he seems to have 2 or 3 dominate offensive shifts a game but he keeping himself into that defense first mode, thats what i am seeing

 

[hotpaws]

he seems to have 2 or 3 dominate offensive shifts a game but he keeping himself into that defense first mode, thats what i am seeing

do you see his errant passes or how he loses the puck every time he tries to bring it up the ice in traffic ?

 

[saltming]

if he was generating a "ton" of chances for himself as well as his linemates and the puck was simply not going in no one would have a issue with him , unfortunately the facts are he's played like shit when he moves a way from the opposing net

this is going to go the way of the Phaneuf threads where people refused to accept that he is just that bad because he's Dion Phaneuf and name recognition goes a long way with fans

Fact one: 5th on the team in scoring
Fact two: 3rd on the team in assist
Fact three: 3rd on the team in points
That would suggest he is creating chances. He will start potting goals more frequently as time passes.
All this while being very good defensively and being a handful in the offensive zone.

 

[moon111]

Even-strength Goals Against - John Tavares.
Last season: 65 goals against in 63 games.
Last playoffs: 7 goals against in 5 games.
This season: 13 goals against in 32 games.

Personally I think John Tavares is putting a conscious effort into making sure he's on the right side of the puck.
His skating has never been a strength. Every time his line coughed up the puck, he wasn't able to get back into
the play. Now he's simply not taking the risk. It's cutting into his offense for sure, but it's vastly improved on
the goals against.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

if he was generating a "ton" of chances for himself as well as his linemates and the puck was simply not going in no one would have a issue with him , unfortunately the facts are he's played like shit when he moves a way from the opposing net

this is going to go the way of the Phaneuf threads where people refused to accept that he is just that bad because he's Dion Phaneuf and name recognition goes a long way with fans

The data doesn't back up anything you're saying, did you even read what I posted?

 

[hotpaws]

Fact one: 5th on the team in scoring
Fact two: 3rd on the team in assist
Fact three: 3rd on the team in points
That would suggest he is creating chances. He will start potting goals more frequently as time passes.
All this while being very good defensively and being a handful in the offensive zone.

or it suggest his linemates are generating the chances

i know it's hard watching the guy's meh play while he chews 11m of cap space and admit he's grossly overpaid for what he brings but sometimes the truth hurts

 

[saltming]

or it suggest his linemates are generating the chances

i know it's hard watching the guy's meh play while he chews 11m of cap space and admit he's grossly overpaid for what he brings but sometimes the truth hurts

Hahahaha either way that line is generating chances contrary to your post.
I watch and see him generating chances by being strong in the boards whole retrieving the puck and getting it into a scoring area, but I'm sure you don't see that

Now I will wait for you to shift the goal post to his salary and if his play is worth it

 

[hotpaws]

The data doesn't back up anything you're saying, did you even read what I posted?

how about the data that compares cap hit to production ?

 

[hotpaws]

Hahahaha either way that line is generating chances contrary to your post.
I watch and see him generating chances by being strong in the boards whole retrieving the puck and getting it into a scoring area, but I'm sure you don't see that

Now I will wait for you to shift the goal post to his salary and if his play is worth it

do you also watch how many times he turns over the puck ? or his lack of production at even strength ?

and why would be bringing up his cap hit be shifting the goal posts ? if he made 3m a year no one would say a negative word about him

 

[saltming]

do you also watch how many times he turns over the puck ? or his lack of production at even strength ?

and why would be bringing up his cap hit be shifting the goal posts ? if he made 3m a year no one would say a negative word about him

Do the stats show he is a turnover machine? Is he close to leading the league in turnovers?
Honestly asking as natural stick site is down for me but I doubt it.
All goal scorers make their bread and butter on the pp, some are 5on5 beasts too but it's not really a knock on a player because his 5on5 production has taken a dip which could easily rise. This thread is about Tavares taking the next step to winning and that step is sacrificing personal production to win and win the cup, IMHO he seems to be doing that. He still plays hard as nails and is focused and doing the right things on the ice to win which has cost him some production.
Bringing his salary into this is shifting goalposts because your original post I responded to argued that he was not creating chances. There was no mention of his salary and if he was producing enough to justify that much money. It's a different argument, hence it would be shifting goalposts

 

[rimshot]

Hahahaha either way that line is generating chances contrary to your post.
I watch and see him generating chances by being strong in the boards whole retrieving the puck and getting it into a scoring area, but I'm sure you don't see that

Now I will wait for you to shift the goal post to his salary and if his play is worth it

Shortest wait ever. He completed that goalpost shift in less than one minute thereby equaling a record set by too many posters.

 

[hotpaws]

Do the stats show he is a turnover machine? Is he close to leading the league in turnovers?
Honestly asking as natural stick site is down for me but I doubt it.
All goal scorers make their bread and butter on the pp, some are 5on5 beasts too but it's not really a knock on a player because his 5on5 production has taken a dip which could easily rise. This thread is about Tavares taking the next step to winning and that step is sacrificing personal production to win and win the cup, IMHO he seems to be doing that. He still plays hard as nails and is focused and doing the right things on the ice to win which has cost him some production.
Bringing his salary into this is shifting goalposts because your original post I responded to argued that he was not creating chances. There was no mention of his salary and if he was producing enough to justify that much money. It's a different argument, hence it would be shifting goalposts

so the new excuse for Johnny Teflon is he's sacrificing his production to be a better player . i guess people couldn't keep using the new dad bs they rode all last season , lol

he's tied for 79th in goals with 20 other players so regardless of how you slice it he isn't scoring at an acceptable rate

and i don't need to constantly bring up his cap hit in every thread to have it be assumed that you can't evaluate a player without also taking into account his cap hit

for example , how many people would still be happy with Bogo's play if he had a 5m cap hit ?

i'm just wondering however if you believe that if we make enough excuses it will lead us to a cup ?

 

[Mickey Marner]

This was inevitable, but I was hoping his previous level of play would hold until year 4/5, not 2/3. The contract is immovable, so we'll just have to shave salary elsewhere to compensate.

 

[aingefan]

so the new excuse for Johnny Teflon is he's sacrificing his production to be a better player . i guess people couldn't keep using the new dad bs they rode all last season , lol

he's tied for 79th in goals with 20 other players so regardless of how you slice it he isn't scoring at an acceptable rate

and i don't need to constantly bring up his cap hit in every thread to have it be assumed that you can't evaluate a player without also taking into account his cap hit

for example , how many people would still be happy with Bogo's play if he had a 5m cap hit ?

i'm just wondering however if you believe that if we make enough excuses it will lead us to a cup ?

There’s 30 first lines, with three forwards on each line, which makes 90 line players. He is tied for 79th in scoring, on a team where he plays on the second line, his shooting below his career average, and has an improved goal differential?
Sounds okay to me all things considered.

 

[saltming]

so the new excuse for Johnny Teflon is he's sacrificing his production to be a better player . i guess people couldn't keep using the new dad bs they rode all last season , lol

he's tied for 79th in goals with 20 other players so regardless of how you slice it he isn't scoring at an acceptable rate

and i don't need to constantly bring up his cap hit in every thread to have it be assumed that you can't evaluate a player without also taking into account his cap hit

for example , how many people would still be happy with Bogo's play if he had a 5m cap hit ?

i'm just wondering however if you believe that if we make enough excuses it will lead us to a cup ?

He wouldn't be the first. Many great players in all sports had to adjust to win the grand prize

2. Do what is best for the team
It’s a well-known narrative in the hockey world that Yzerman was converted from a high scoring, human highlight reel into a two-way playoff warrior, either by Hall of Fame coach Scotty Bowman (see point 3) or by his own volition. In any case, the Red Wings’ success followed this transformation with Stanley Cups in 1997, 1998, and 2002.
“Keeping the goals against down has been the focus here and a key to doing that has been the ability of players such as Stevie Yzerman to change his style of play,” defenceman Bob Rouse said. “He had to buy into what the coaches were trying to implement and he’s done that, which is a big reason why we’ve been successful.”

Again salary was never part of this debate but keep trying shift

 

[hotpaws]

There’s 30 first lines, with three forwards on each line, which makes 90 line players. He is tied for 79th in scoring, on a team where he plays on the second line, his shooting below his career average, and has an improved goal differential?
Sounds okay to me all things considered.

tied for 79th in scoring while playing on a top pp and having a top 7 cap hit is okay ?

to put it into perspective , we could have kept Kadri who has similar production to JT , traded Holl and signed Petro

 

[hotpaws]

He wouldn't be the first. Many great players in all sports had to adjust to win the grand prize

2. Do what is best for the team
It’s a well-known narrative in the hockey world that Yzerman was converted from a high scoring, human highlight reel into a two-way playoff warrior, either by Hall of Fame coach Scotty Bowman (see point 3) or by his own volition. In any case, the Red Wings’ success followed this transformation with Stanley Cups in 1997, 1998, and 2002.
“Keeping the goals against down has been the focus here and a key to doing that has been the ability of players such as Stevie Yzerman to change his style of play,” defenceman Bob Rouse said. “He had to buy into what the coaches were trying to implement and he’s done that, which is a big reason why we’ve been successful.”

Again salary was never part of this debate but keep trying shift

if the league didn't have a hard cap like when Yzerman played there wouldn't be a problem how much overpaid JT is but since there is a hard cap effectively using it is imperative to building the best team you can

 

[saltming]

if the league didn't have a hard cap like when Yzerman played there wouldn't be a problem how much overpaid JT is but since there is a hard cap effectively using it is imperative to building the best team you can

Shift
Goal
Post

Yzerman changing his game had to do solely with winning. Infinite spending had nothing to do with it in anyway. If anything it speaks to the importance of changing his playing style, so I will just accept that you are admitting defeat on the original topic and move to this one for you.

JT's salary will be fine if his change in playing style helps us win a cup, bottom line, we win, it's a win, we don't win, we figure out how to move on to optimize the team, if, and a big if, it makes us better than having him on the team

 

[hotpaws]

Shift
Goal
Post

Yzerman changing his game had to do solely with winning. Infinite spending had nothing to do with it in anyway. If anything it speaks to the importance of changing his playing style, so I will just accept that you are admitting defeat on the original topic and move to this one for you.

JT's salary will be fine if his change in playing style helps us win a cup, bottom line, we win, it's a win, we don't win, we figure out how to move on to optimize the team, if, and a big if, it makes us better than having him on the team

no idea what you think Yzerman has to do with Tavares and just because JT production has slid into the toilet 5 on 5 doesn't mean he changed his game just because he hasn't bled goals in a small sample size like he has his entire career

and no idea why you keep saying i'm shifting the goal posts when it's you who's desperately trying to ignore how his cap hit has affected the teams ability to add quality pieces in other areas

JT has ben a turnover machine this year so the idea that he's playing some safe game is absurd ,

this is a one off year where we play in a mediocre division where we should easily advance to the semi's and which also means we have an easier path to the cup than we would have normally but hey f*** that because it's more important to spew non sense on a hockey forum for shits and giggles

 

[whiteandblue]

I really don't care if he is as productive as he was in the past. If he scores a GWG that puts us through to the next round, that's all that matters.