John Tavares Discussion

[Stephen]

If the 2 penalties in the 3rd period of game 6 don’t get called giving Tampa a 5 on 3… it’s very possible, the 2 goals scored by Tavares 26 seconds apart to close out the second hold up and John Tavares is the reason we eliminate Tampa in 6.

Yeah and if Kapanen’s SH takedown of Marchand and deking out Rask had stood up as the game winner in Game 7 in 2018 that would have been this generation’s Lanny McDonald goal and the Leafs would have lived happily ever after.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The third goal should have counted

Do you mean the one where he only got a shot on net because of the blatant interference? No.

 

[notDatsyuk]

If the 2 penalties in the 3rd period of game 6 don’t get called giving Tampa a 5 on 3… it’s very possible, the 2 goals scored by Tavares 26 seconds apart to close out the second hold up and John Tavares is the reason we eliminate Tampa in 6.

Yes, if the Leafs didn't take a couple of really stupid penalties late in a game where they're leading, they might have won, in which case the two flukey goals by Tavares (both set up by hard work by his wingers) would have been the difference.

JT scored three goals in the series: one deflected off his foot, and the other two were the result of deflections off Tampa defencemen. Let's not pretend he was super-sniper.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Do you mean the one where he only got a shot on net because of the blatant interference? No.

It was not blatant interference. Holl didn’t throw a check, all he did was skate into the same ice that Cirelli wanted to skate into and Holl got there first. Holl was just as much entitled to that space as Cirelli was.

 

[notDatsyuk]

It was not blatant interference. Holl didn’t throw a check, all he did was skate into the same ice that Cirelli wanted to skate into and Holl got there first. Holl was just as much entitled to that space as Cirelli was.

No. That was an obvious pick, and there's no way that 'goal' should have counted except in the mind of a very biased Leafs fan.

 

[Zybalto]

It was not blatant interference. Holl didn’t throw a check, all he did was skate into the same ice that Cirelli wanted to skate into and Holl got there first. Holl was just as much entitled to that space as Cirelli was.

I'm still angry about that........and then the same two refs go ahead and allow a goal later in the playoffs on what actually looked like a planned pick that the Bolts benefitted from.

Officiating matters in the playoffs and we have been on their bad side for some reason.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I'm still angry about that........and then the same two refs go ahead and allow a goal later in the playoffs on what actually looked like a planned pick that the Bolts benefitted from.

Officiating matters in the playoffs and we have been on their bad side for some reason.

Not as blatant as the Holl pick, but I agree.

I'm more annoyed about the goal where the Tampa player used his body to trap the defenceman's stick (a trick Carl Brewer taught me), but I have to admit it was well done.

 

[WillyC]

Yes, if the Leafs didn't take a couple of really stupid penalties late in a game where they're leading, they might have won, in which case the two flukey goals by Tavares (both set up by hard work by his wingers) would have been the difference.

JT scored three goals in the series: one deflected off his foot, and the other two were the result of deflections off Tampa defencemen. Let's not pretend he was super-sniper.

You obviously did not see those 2 goals Tavares scored in the last minute of the 2nd period in game 6… go back and look at them.

On the first goal, Vasy might of stopped it as he deflected the Tavares shot up into the air… but he didn’t and it went in.

The second goal was sniped in by Tavares.

The only thing stupid about the 2 penalties leading to the 5 on 3 was the refereeing.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Arguing over officiating well after the fact is the protest of the weak.

DON'T BE WEAK!!!

 

[Zybalto]

Arguing over officiating well after the fact is the protest of the weak.

DON'T BE WEAK!!!

I'm still not over Gretz highsticking Gilmour and getting away with it brother......

 

[Zybalto]

Not as blatant as the Holl pick, but I agree.

I'm more annoyed about the goal where the Tampa player used his body to trap the defenceman's stick (a trick Carl Brewer taught me), but I have to admit it was well done.

just like the simulation when a highstick gets near your face, yea, they were sneaky and sold things well.

Big bad Leafs in the playoffs again (at least to the officials)

 

[keonsbitterness]

I'm still not over Gretz highsticking Gilmour and getting away with it brother......

I......I......I......okay, you got me on that one.

 

[notDatsyuk]

You obviously did not see those 2 goals Tavares scored in the last minute of the 2nd period in game 6… go back and look at them.

On the first goal, Vasy might of stopped it as he deflected the Tavares shot up into the air… but he didn’t and it went in.

The second goal was sniped in by Tavares.

The only thing stupid about the 2 penalties leading to the 5 on 3 was the refereeing.

I just rewatched them. First one deflected off the defenceman's stick, hit Vasy high, and bounced over. The second was a shot along the ice that deflected off the defenceman's stick into the top corner stick side.

The first one was definitely a penalty, although no worse than some that weren't called, but there was no way the ref could ignore the second.

 

[notDatsyuk]

just like the simulation when a highstick gets near your face, yea, they were sneaky and sold things well.

Big bad Leafs in the playoffs again (at least to the officials)

Tampa was #2 in the regular season at both taking and drawing penalties, so it's not a big surprise that it was the series with the most.

Except for Crawford's (?) stupidity in game one Leafs took a grand total of one more penalty (a minor) than Tampa.

So yes, we were a little less disciplined and a little less sneaky - comes with experience.

 

[DarkKnight]

Hard to believe this is now year 5 of JT’s contract. Who would have thought the Leafs would have done nothing so far when he signed in 2018.

I love JT, is this the year we start to see decline, it’s easy to argue his ”window” is closing, we’ve already squandered peak Tavares.

 

[Mess]

Hard to believe this is now year 5 of JT’s contract. Who would have thought the Leafs would have done nothing so far when he signed in 2018.

I love JT, is this the year we start to see decline, it’s easy to argue his ”window” is closing, we’ve already squandered peak Tavares.

His former team was a non playoff team with him, and made 2 X final 4 appearances (unfortunately running into TB both times) without him and has won 8 playoff rounds.

Its not the player its his contract that is having a larger impact on playoff results.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

His former team was a non playoff team with him, and made 2 X final 4 appearances (unfortunately running into TB both times) without him and has won 8 playoff rounds.

Its not the player its his contract that is having a larger impact on playoff results.

Quoted for truth
JT played to his contract in year one when he had Mitch riding shotgun...every other season he's been grossly overpaid and there's a trickle down effect to that.

If you don't have JT, you can pay for a legit #2 stud Dman to play with Rielly
If you don't have JT, you can pay for a legit #1 goalie rather than put your hopes in reclamation projects
If you don't have JT, you can sign more effective players to play in the bottom of your lineup

Tavares fanboys out here singing praises about his faceoff % and how he 'works hard' lol. Top 5 cap hit in the league for a guy on a steep decline who cannot keep up in this league anymore.

 

[DarkKnight]

Quoted for truth
JT played to his contract in year one when he had Mitch riding shotgun...every other season he's been grossly overpaid and there's a trickle down effect to that.

If you don't have JT, you can pay for a legit #2 stud Dman to play with Rielly
If you don't have JT, you can pay for a legit #1 goalie rather than put your hopes in reclamation projects
If you don't have JT, you can sign more effective players to play in the bottom of your lineup

Tavares fanboys out here singing praises about his faceoff % and how he 'works hard' lol. Top 5 cap hit in the league for a guy on a steep decline who cannot keep up in this league anymore.

View attachment 569855

It’s quite stunning now looking at the year he had Marner setting him up on the tape, history starts to be kinder to what Mitch actually did for him. He scored 13 more even strength goals that season than any time previously in his career, quite remarkable.

 

[Byron Bitz]

I'm still angry about that........and then the same two refs go ahead and allow a goal later in the playoffs on what actually looked like a planned pick that the Bolts benefitted from.

Officiating matters in the playoffs and we have been on their bad side for some reason.

Bad calls were made against the lightening as well but timing is everything and the timing of the bad calls made against the Leafs were crippling. The worst of which were made by two refs, one a Habs fan and the other a Flames fan.

 

[Stephen]

Bad calls were made against the lightening as well but timing is everything and the timing of the bad calls made against the Leafs were crippling. The worst of which were made by two refs, one a Habs fan and the other a Flames fan.

Leafs still had a chance to win Game 6 and Game 7, so you can't really chalk it up to officiating.

 

[Mess]

Quoted for truth
JT played to his contract in year one when he had Mitch riding shotgun...every other season he's been grossly overpaid and there's a trickle down effect to that.

It all comes down to your Bang for you Salary Cap Buck?

John Taveres at $11 mil AAV has the 5th highest CAP hit among all players..

His stats .. places him 63rd in goals and 42 in points 268th and 250th TOI/G.

Those stats don't line up and there in lies you problem you can't have the 5th highest cap and the 42 leading scorer.

Now lets compare Bang for Buck for Auston Matthews.

Matthews at $11.634 AAV has the 3rd highest NHL Cap hit, however for that investment Leafs are getting.

Leafs are getting the #1 goal scorer and #6th in points and the Rocket, Hart and Lindsey trophies.

There is only 1 player former Norris Trophy winner Erik Karlsson @ $11.5 mil AAV between Matthews and Tavares in Cap hit.

To validate his contract Tavares would need to produce like Matthews statically essentially = 45 goal 100+ point player.

 

[ULF_55]

Let's hope his training this summer helps with his footspeed this year. (Last year his concussion impacted off season training.)

From the sounds of it he's feeling it.

Still has the hands, has size and if Keefe can manage to find a player who works with Nylander and Tavares we could see a resurgence from 91.

?-Taveres-Nylander

They fixed the 1st. line with Bunting (except in the playoffs where Bunting wasn't 100%) so time to fix the 2nd. line.

Someone who could approach 20 goals while playing 2nd. line minutes with 2 PPGish players shouldn't be difficult.

 

[Stephen]

Let's hope his training this summer helps with his footspeed this year. (Last year his concussion impacted off season training.)

From the sounds of it he's feeling it.

Still has the hands, has size and if Keefe can manage to find a player who works with Nylander and Tavares we could see a resurgence from 91.

?-Taveres-Nylander

They fixed the 1st. line with Bunting (except in the playoffs where Bunting wasn't 100%) so time to fix the 2nd. line.

Someone who could approach 20 goals while playing 2nd. line minutes with 2 PPGish players shouldn't be difficult.

Remember when Kadri said he wanted to be like a John Tavares and that seemed farfetched? Now we need John Tavares to give us a 2021-22 season start to finish. Whether he can deliver that will determine so much of the Leafs top end potential.

 

[ULF_55]

Remember when Kadri said he wanted to be like a John Tavares and that seemed farfetched? Now we need John Tavares to give us a 2021-22 season start to finish. Whether he can deliver that will determine so much of the Leafs top end potential.

Yeah, but they need a spark on that line.

Maybe it is one of of the newly signed players, or a prospect that can skate well enough and has shown they can score over 20 goals in some league.

 

[Stephen]

Yeah, but they need a spark on that line.

Maybe it is one of of the newly signed players, or a prospect that can skate well enough and has shown they can score over 20 goals in some league.

Knies would seem to best fit that description but he seems another year out.