John Tavares Discussion

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But none of that has anything to do with Tavares' contract.

As far as commiting the Backstrom and Ovechkin sure, as long as Ovechkin keeps scoring it works out.
An entire thread or 20 really have nothing to do with the Tavares contract if he has a NMC.
All you can do is wait it out or ask him to waive. I can’t see them asking to waive so it’s wait it out.
Which brings me to the option of you must prepare for it because I don’t see us winning under the current structure. But you can win the next.

MacKinnon, Duchene, O’Reilly, Shattenkirk, Stastny was the old that became the new build with time and management.
 
I don't mind a massive UFA add in theory but the hockey fit has to be right. With John Tavares, his play style just doesn't mesh all that well with what they're trying to do throughout the lineup and the fit was more about the brand name and homecoming storyline.
you overpay for ufa's when your not shopping in the scratch and dent section so you better make sure when you overpay your filling a need as well as getting a player that's fits as you said , JT was neither
 
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That could solve the JT but again what is Nylander going to want UFA?

Don’t forget, his cap is 6.9 but his salary is 7.5. He missed 2 month and was paid 10 million in his first year.

So you are starting at 7.5. Do you really want to go back to 3 10 million again? I also wouldn’t want to deal with him.

In addition to waiting out Tavares, I would be looking for a new core player for Nylander I can get signed for 6 years now. Like a 2C Cirelli. Like a Nichushkin. 4/5 x 6 years.

I personally don't see Nylander/his agent as being likely any more difficult than Marner or Matthews will be at this point. And while we obviously have to wait and see - I'd expect his next deal to be well under 10 mil in terms of aav. I just don't necessarily see an extension as that big of an issue, especially with the cap now returning to growth.

Now if the team wants to rejig things, that's a different story. But if it gets to that point, I'd potentially look into moving on from more than just Nylander/JT....
 
they don't want to get it , they look at JT's contract , believe he's unmovable so they'll die on the stance the signing was perfect and he's not a problem
Even worse, they look at the amount and that it's unmovable, so they'll die on the stance that he's a 2C, and try to build around him to show he's not a problem.
 
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It’s going to be a long whiny summer for the cap guru crybabies in this thread.

For more perspective… the Toronto fan base is not made up of wannabe cap guru Dubas haters… the arena is full of fans that don’t even know or care how much each player makes.

They’re not stressing out, thinking, if only Tavares was making 7 million… we’d definitely be winning cups with the other 4 million.

The cap guru geniuses who think they’re a large voice, that’s going to influence the Toronto Maple Leafs into forcing Tavares off the team (you know, because he’s not wanted by his teammates or the fans anymore)… actual reality, the Toronto Maple Leafs don’t even know you crybabies exist.
 
It’s going to be a long whiny summer for the cap guru crybabies in this thread.

For more perspective… the Toronto fan base is not made up of wannabe cap guru Dubas haters… the arena is full of fans that don’t even know or care how much each player makes.

They’re not stressing out, thinking, if only Tavares was making 7 million… we’d definitely be winning cups with the other 4 million.

The cap guru geniuses who think they’re a large voice, that’s going to influence the Toronto Maple Leafs into forcing Tavares off the team (you know, because he’s not wanted by his teammates or the fans anymore)… actual reality, the Toronto Maple Leafs don’t even know you crybabies exist.
i hear ya but i just can't celebrate and enjoy losing like you do

for proper perspective,,, the fan base couldn't give a damn who's the GM , all they care about is winning and most have realized Johnny hasn't helped and Dubas is driving the team over a cliff

they also could care less about expected something something
 
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That could solve the JT but again what is Nylander going to want UFA?

Don’t forget, his cap is 6.9 but his salary is 7.5. He missed 2 month and was paid 10 million in his first year.

So you are starting at 7.5. Do you really want to go back to 3 10 million again? I also wouldn’t want to deal with him.

In addition to waiting out Tavares, I would be looking for a new core player for Nylander I can get signed for 6 years now. Like a 2C Cirelli. Like a Nichushkin. 4/5 x 6 years.

The below is from an excellent Gare Joyce article from 2017 "Sins of the Father". Its like he predicted how the next contract might go. Same Willie, same Michael, same agent there for the next go round.

Even without the pedigree and the look, the younger Nylander would have gained attention with his play as a junior. At 16, he played a handful of games against proven pros with Sodertalje in the SEL. The year he became a full-time pro, splitting the season between Sodertalje, Modo, and Rogle, he scored 16 goals in 57 games. He had no holes in his skill set; he was elite in every facet of the offensive game. There was only one red flag, and it was one that he had no control over: his father.


In his long NHL career, Michael Nylander had crossed paths with many of the NHL executives and scouts who were evaluating his son, and Michael Nylander hadn’t made a great impression on many of them. In the opinion of one NHL scout who had played with him, “He was a talented guy but a me-first type, selfish. He wasn’t a coach killer, but he wasn’t committed to the team concept. If he gets his goals, gets his contract . . . whatever he can get out of it.”

Another who played with Michael called him “the worst teammate I ever had . . . it was always all about him.”
That Michael played for himself was a common view. Not that he was poison in the dressing room — it was just that he wasn’t what guys thought of as a good soldier, not even a soldier for hire, or a teammate first.


Some in hockey were tempted to paint William with the same brush. “Could the apple fall far from the tree?” they wondered. Some others who were ready to give William a fairer shake would admit to concerns about his father’s influence. Teams like to have a player’s complete attention and not compete with a parent or agent or anyone else who might offer a second opinion.
 
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The below is from an excellent Gare Joyce article from 2017 "Sins of the Father". Its like he predicted how the next contract might go. Same Willie, same Michael, same agent there for the next go round.

Even without the pedigree and the look, the younger Nylander would have gained attention with his play as a junior. At 16, he played a handful of games against proven pros with Sodertalje in the SEL. The year he became a full-time pro, splitting the season between Sodertalje, Modo, and Rogle, he scored 16 goals in 57 games. He had no holes in his skill set; he was elite in every facet of the offensive game. There was only one red flag, and it was one that he had no control over: his father.


In his long NHL career, Michael Nylander had crossed paths with many of the NHL executives and scouts who were evaluating his son, and Michael Nylander hadn’t made a great impression on many of them. In the opinion of one NHL scout who had played with him, “He was a talented guy but a me-first type, selfish. He wasn’t a coach killer, but he wasn’t committed to the team concept. If he gets his goals, gets his contract . . . whatever he can get out of it.”

Another who played with Michael called him “the worst teammate I ever had . . . it was always all about him.”
That Michael played for himself was a common view. Not that he was poison in the dressing room — it was just that he wasn’t what guys thought of as a good soldier, not even a soldier for hire, or a teammate first.


Some in hockey were tempted to paint William with the same brush. “Could the apple fall far from the tree?” they wondered. Some others who were ready to give William a fairer shake would admit to concerns about his father’s influence. Teams like to have a player’s complete attention and not compete with a parent or agent or anyone else who might offer a second opinion.

Willie has his flaws as a player but I don't think he's Michael Nylander. His contract wasn't a grand slam home town discount like a Pastrnak at the time and the hold out looks bad, but he's never really been in the same class as the other Big 3 contracts from a pure AAV sense.
 
Willie has his flaws as a player but I don't think he's Michael Nylander. His contract wasn't a grand slam home town discount like a Pastrnak at the time and the hold out looks bad, but he's never really been in the same class as the other Big 3 contracts from a pure AAV sense.
It has much more to do with the holdout then the end result. Remember the number he settled for was his 11th hour compromise but for which he might have missed a whole year. His closest comps were Forsberg and Ehlers and he did much better than them even while missing 27 games. If he took $6.9M to start the season that is still
better than either of them got but he stuck to his position. This is the way his dad was described as looking at a contract. In Willie's own words, "I just wanted what I could get" which could have come from Michael's mouth as well.

It isn't the degree of overpayment, that's chicken feed 3 years later, its what he was prepared to do to make his point. It would be naive to assume he will approach the next contract any differently and as a UFA its overpay or lose him for nothing. As a player and at this cap hit he is fine, but next deal is he worth 10% more than his comps and on a club with almost no value deals on the books, can they afford to do that again?

In a non cap environment it isn't a big deal at all but does it make more sense to deal him now when his value is probably at its peak or wait to see how much he will demand for his extension and then find a club that can more easily afford his next deal? He's a fine player, just saying it will likely be a rough ride to get him extended.
 
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It has much more to do with the holdout then the end result. Remember the number he settled for was his 11th hour compromise but for which he might have missed a whole year. His closest comps were Forsberg and Ehlers and he did much better than them even while missing 27 games. If he took $6.9M to start the season that is still
better than either of them got but he stuck to his position. This is the way his dad was described as looking at a contract. In Willie's own words, "I just wanted what I could get" which could have come from Michael's mouth as well.

It isn't the degree of overpayment, that's chicken feed 3 years later, its what he was prepared to do to make his point. It would be naive to assume he will approach the next contract any differently and as a UFA its overpay or lose him for nothing. As a player and at this cap hit he is fine, but next deal is he worth 10% more than his comps and on a club with almost no value deals on the books, can they afford to do that again?

In a non cap environment it isn't a big deal at all but does it make more sense to deal him now when his value is probably at its peak or wait to see how much he will demand for his extension and then find a club that can more easily afford his next deal? He's a fine player, just saying it will likely be a rough ride to get him extended.
yes

it's called getting ahead of a problem.
 
JT is a nice guy, sure.…but he is only going to keep declining from here. He will be the only one still here in Toronto once Matthews and Nylander walk after next season. I don’t think Marner stays either.

The rebuild should be started right now, they are only prolonging it.
 
Willie has his flaws as a player but I don't think he's Michael Nylander. His contract wasn't a grand slam home town discount like a Pastrnak at the time and the hold out looks bad, but he's never really been in the same class as the other Big 3 contracts from a pure AAV sense.
Here’s the issue.
Tavares is not going to get better in terms of filling out his 11 million contract. He would need to become a 50-50 man. Chances are, he is becoming a 70 point style player.

Nylander, if you consider his contract good, is no longer poised to be the “bargain”, contract. UFA will put him in the next category.

Matthews and Marner are already paid as superstars. No contract increase is going to make them superstars.

Rielly is jumping from his bargain deal to high end money. He’s not going to become Hedman or Makar because of it.

We have won nothing with this collection, either because the collection is wrong or the money allocation is wrong. Both of these things are not changing at present.
Not one if these players have gone McDavid/Draisaitl 33 points in 16 games dynamic. Not 1 in all their appearances.

As I’ve said, you need to make changes today for tomorrow. Balance and core adjustment for the next 2-3 years when it’s Everyman UFA for himself.

Chose 2 forwards, trade for a 3rd core forward you can cost control with term, add a D core to Reilly and a solution in goal.
 
We need stars who perform well in the biggest games. Tavares scored 3 huge goals in games 6 and 7 which would have won us the series if it weren’t for shitty reffing.
Two goals, not three, and both on flukey bounces, and I'm not sure how the refs made us go 0-4 on the PP. The way it was going they could have given us 20 PP and it wouldn't have made a difference.
 
Two goals, not three, and both on flukey bounces, and I'm not sure how the refs made us go 0-4 on the PP. The way it was going they could have given us 20 PP and it wouldn't have made a difference.
The third goal should have counted
 
If the 2 penalties in the 3rd period of game 6 don’t get called giving Tampa a 5 on 3… it’s very possible, the 2 goals scored by Tavares 26 seconds apart to close out the second hold up and John Tavares is the reason we eliminate Tampa in 6.
 
Hopefully a full healthy off season and training can rejuvenate him.

I admire JT so much for coming home, and hoped for a difference maker at his salary. It would be a shame if this was all we got and he’s starting to decline in the latter part of his contract.
 
Hopefully a full healthy off season and training can rejuvenate him.

I admire JT so much for coming home, and hoped for a difference maker at his salary. It would be a shame if this was all we got and he’s starting to decline in the latter part of his contract.
Same
But what I'm not liking is the captain of this team getting bullied and he just skates away. No fire, no push-back, and noone else does anything either
 
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We need stars who perform well in the biggest games. Tavares scored 3 huge goals in games 6 and 7 which would have won us the series if it weren’t for shitty reffing.
I still don't know why Holl thought JT out of all players even needed that pick though. The last shoulder fake had Cirelli finished, JT was free to cut to the middle. Shitty reffing yes but also our core is surrounded by low IQ players that hold them back too. Mik is gone hopefully Holl follows.
 
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