John Tavares Discussion

[andora]

No kidding.
Matthews was never making less than Eichel, but I get the gist of the post.
Matthews 11
Marner 9-9.5
Nylander 7

I think the majority of posters here, no matter what side of the fence you are on, could probably agree with this for the most part.
That’s still a 13 million cap to play with. You don’t have to dump Marleau, and you have a ton of flexibility.
3 11 million contracts is crazy.

posted this in that other thread that got locked - using your numbers and no tavares contract. all the Y's on the right column are salaries counting. the debates start when looking at the defence - and does gardiner stay / zaitsev problem etc... but using the same two trade chips kapanen and johnsson could have helped address this.

NAME	AGE	POS	YR	CT	PRO	18/19	19/20	20/21	21/22	22/23	inc?
Auston Matthews						925,000​	11,000,000​	11,000,000​	11,000,000​	11,000,000​	y
Nazem Kadri						4,500,000​	4,500,000​	4,500,000​	4,500,000​		y
Tyler Bozak						5,000,000​	5,000,000​	5,000,000​	950,000​		y
		C	0	0		10,425,000	20,500,000	20,500,000	16,450,000	11,000,000
Patrick Marleau						6,250,000​	6,250,000​				y
Zach Hyman						2,250,000​	2,250,000​	2,250,000​	5,500,000​	5,500,000​	y
Trevor Moore						925,000​	775,000​	775,000​	1,875,000​	1,875,000​	y
James Van Riemsdyk
Matt Martin						2,500,000​	2,500,000​	1,500,000​	1,500,000​	1,500,000​	y
Andreas Johnsson	trade 19/20					787,500​	3,400,000​	3,400,000​	3,400,000​	3,400,000​
Pierre Engvall						925,000​	925,000​	1,250,000​	1,250,000​		y
Mason Marchment						767,500​	767,500​	700,000​	800,000​
		LW	0	0		12,850,000	12,700,000	5,775,000	10,125,000	8,875,000
William Nylander						7,000,000​	7,000,000​	7,000,000​	7,000,000​	7,000,000​	y
Connor Brown						2,100,000​	2,100,000​	3,600,000​	3,600,000​	3,600,000​	y
Mitch Marner						894,167​	9,500,000​	9,500,000​	9,500,000​	9,500,000​	y
Carl Grundstrom						925,000​	925,000​	725,000​	725,000​		y
Leo Komarov						3,000,000​	3,000,000​	3,000,000​	3,000,000​		y
Kasperi Kapanen	trade 19/20					863,333​	3,200,000​	3,200,000​	3,200,000​
Alexander Barabanov								925,000​	1,000,000​
		RW	0	0		13,919,167	22,525,000	23,825,000	23,825,000	20,100,000
	FORWARD	0	0		37,194,167	55,725,000	50,100,000	50,400,000	39,975,000
Morgan Reilly						5,000,000​	5,000,000​	5,000,000​	5,000,000​	7,500,000​	y
Nikita Zaitsev						4,500,000​	4,500,000​	4,500,000​	4,500,000​	4,500,000​	y
Jake Gardiner						4,050,000​	4,050,000​	4,050,000​	4,050,000​	4,050,000​	y
Ron Hainsey						3,000,000​	let walk				y
Roman Polak						1,300,000​	let walk
Travis Dermott						863,333​	863,333​	874,125​	1,500,000​	1,500,000​	y
Justin Holl						675,000​	675,000​	2,000,000​	2,000,000​	2,000,000​	y
Timothy Liljegren						894,167​	863,333​	863,333​	863,333​		y
Rasmus Sandin						925,000​	894,167​	894,167​	894,167​		y
Sean Durzi							809,166​	809,166​	809,166​		y
		D	0	0		19,907,500	17,654,999	18,990,791	19,616,666	19,550,000
Frederik Andersen						5,000,000​	5,000,000​	5,000,000​			y
		G	0	0		5,000,000	5,000,000	5,000,000	0	0
RETAINED SALARIES						1,200,000	1,200,000	1,200,000	1,200,000
			0	0		63,301,667	79,579,999	75,290,791	71,216,666	59,525,000
salary cap						$79,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$82,500,000
difference/space						16,198,333.00	1,920,001.00	6,209,209.00	10,283,334.00	22,975,000.00

 

[Gary Nylund]

No kidding.
Matthews was never making less than Eichel, but I get the gist of the post.
Matthews 11
Marner 9-9.5
Nylander 7

I think the majority of posters here, no matter what side of the fence you are on, could probably agree with this for the most part.
That’s still a 13 million cap to play with. You don’t have to dump Marleau, and you have a ton of flexibility.
3 11 million contracts is crazy.

Matthews is a unicorn so I can't complain about him. I'd settle for Marner at 9 like it should have been all along. And make it 7 years while I'm at it.

 

[CelticDruid]

If you withdraw every seco d assist he had and just watchibg his teammate doing play and withdraw goal he scored last 10 with 3 goal, or with a 4 goal deficit. I dont want to see one of my best player score when the game almost over but when the team need it


Im agree i dont care how he score but when his real impact is so low and look closer of luck than work/skill ... thats where i have a problem with

5 goal 2 assist in 19 game... of its your definition of bring result, we dont have the same... 0.36 pts/game, didn't bring any ki d of physicallity, defensive, blocking shot, avoid hit... a guy who will give you 2 or 3 pts/ game without anything else. Its worst than what galchenyuk gave to leafs against mtl...

You're being really silly Dude, it's embarrassing.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Matthews is a unicorn so I can't complain about him. I'd settle for Marner at 9 like it should have been all along. And make it 7 years while I'm at it.

The really sad thing is the rumors about the CBJ offer sheet was MM making $10.5M for 7 in order to keep it just under the max 1st round pick level and we ended giving him a raise and 1 less year. How can you not be sick when you here that?

 

[Gary Nylund]

The really sad thing is the rumors about the CBJ offer sheet was MM making $10.5M for 7 in order to keep it just under the max 1st round pick level and we ended giving him a raise and 1 less year. How can you not be sick when you here that?

I have no answer for that. I wonder if I'll ever forget where I was and how I felt when I heard about the deal on the radio. I was driving up Runnymede rd., lucky I didn't rear end someone. Sick is indeed the word.

 

[Stephen]

The really sad thing is the rumors about the CBJ offer sheet was MM making $10.5M for 7 in order to keep it just under the max 1st round pick level and we ended giving him a raise and 1 less year. How can you not be sick when you here that?

The way Marner negotiated so hard definitely created a lot of hard feelings, but after so many productive seasons with him, it feels like he isn't a massive overpay and we might be able to say it's all water under the bridge.

With John Tavares, just kinda feels like we gave the wrong guy the keys to the franchise.

 

[socko]

This old Tavares article is full of weasel words....

"Tavares left as much as $14 million on the table, since the San Jose Sharks were believed to have offered a seven-year, $91 million deal."

Two weasel word bombs in 1 sentence.

If anyone even keeps reading after that, well they're a better man than me. Or at least they have more time to waste than me.

Tavares took less money to come home - TSN.ca

The perfect pitch convinced the star centre to chase his childhood dream with the Maple Leafs, Frank Seravalli writes.

www.tsn.ca

 

[keonsbitterness]

This old Tavares article is full of weasel words....

"Tavares left as much as $14 million on the table, since the San Jose Sharks were believed to have offered a seven-year, $91 million deal."

Two weasel word bombs in 1 sentence.

If anyone even keeps reading after that, well they're a better man than me. Or at least they have more time to waste than me.

Tavares took less money to come home - TSN.ca

The perfect pitch convinced the star centre to chase his childhood dream with the Maple Leafs, Frank Seravalli writes.

www.tsn.ca

We know that six teams made presentations. I doubt any of them offered below $10M. Islanders reportedly offered 8 @ $11.25M, and "reportedly" is all we can go by. Teams, agents and players generally don't 100% confirm those numbers.

 

[DarkKnight]

I like JT. I guess the question now on this signing, have we squandered his best years here, is he a slightly diminished asset moving forward and how does that affect our chances?

 

[hotpaws]

I like JT. I guess the question now on this signing, have we squandered his best years here, is he a slightly diminished asset moving forward and how does that affect our chances?

maybe if he actually did something in the playoffs his best years wouldn't have been squandered ?

 

[hotpaws]

We know that six teams made presentations. I doubt any of them offered below $10M. Islanders reportedly offered 8 @ $11.25M, and "reportedly" is all we can go by. Teams, agents and players generally don't 100% confirm those numbers.

there's no way Tampa offered 10m and i doubt Boston did either

 

[ToneDog]

there's no way Tampa offered 10m and i doubt Boston did either

Whatever anybody offered should not have mattered. Dubas should have had a number and stuck to it. Should have folded past 10 but went all in at 11 and here we are looking for more Buntings and hoping we can avoid Ritchies and Mrazeks.

 

[keonsbitterness]

there's no way Tampa offered 10m and i doubt Boston did either

Tampa probably couldn't and went hard on the tax angle.

 

[DueDiligence]

Tavares is still a good to very good player. The problem is that he is supposed to be a difference maker which he is not. And his stats are somewhat inflated because the other teams' best defensive players always focus on Matthews. His signing will prove to be Dubas's big blunder.

 

[hotpaws]

Tampa probably couldn't and went hard on the tax angle.

Tampa WOULDN'T not couldn't , there's no way they were going to pay him far more than Stamkos/Hedman who are both better players not to mention Kuch was due a new deal the following off season .

 

[keonsbitterness]

Tampa WOULDN'T not couldn't , there's no way they were going to pay him far more than Stamkos/Hedman who are both better players not to mention Kuch was due a new deal the following off season .

If they made it past the final six, I bet they would have found a way to pay him more.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Love Tavares. what made the signing become bad is the flat cap era. cap should have gone up between 2-3m every season since we signed him. however in that time it has gone up around 3m and now that large contract is kind of a bummer. but it is what it is. he cant be moved and we shouldnt go down the road to treat him poorly till he is heart broken enough to actually waive his full NTC
us as fans are so toxic at times.

 

[frizzer1]

They have to find a way to get him to waive.
Then to get 11 mil in cap space how much would they have to give up?
Because no team will take an aging, slow 11 mil forward for nothing.
If some GM is stupid enough to give up assets to get him, I would be delighted.
But aint gonna happen.

 

[frizzer1]

Love Tavares. what made the signing become bad is the flat cap era. cap should have gone up between 2-3m every season since we signed him. however in that time it has gone up around 3m and now that large contract is kind of a bummer. but it is what it is. he cant be moved and we shouldnt go down the road to treat him poorly till he is heart broken enough to actually waive his full NTC
us as fans are so toxic at times.

I wouldn’t want to break his heart to get him to waive cause he seems to be a good guy and it was his dream to come here.
But if they don’t they will be wasting Matthews/Marner’s prime years here.

 

[ULF_55]

They have to find a way to get him to waive.
Then to get 11 mil in cap space how much would they have to give up?
Because no team will take an aging, slow 11 mil forward for nothing.
If some GM is stupid enough to give up assets to get him, I would be delighted.
But aint gonna happen.

He isn't waiving, but say his wife wants to move to a nice city and he agrees, Leafs could easily retain for 3 years.

3 years at 3 million puts him at a high but reasonable $8mm a year both in cash and cap hit. For a .94 PPG player over the past 3 seasons, after removing the season he was over a PPG player.

Frees up $8mm minus the players the Leafs acquire.

So teams don't need to have $11mm in cap space to acquire him.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I wouldn’t want to break his heart to get him to waive cause he seems to be a good guy and it was his dream to come here.
But if they don’t they will be wasting Matthews/Marner’s prime years here.

Plenty of time I mean its impossible to move him really within the 2 years left in Matthews contract. once he resigns I think Tavares only has 1 year left after that lots of space freed up. we just gotta...... it is what it is. gotta get through this. I think forcing Tavares out from the fans will just give FAs more reason not to sign here.

 

[hotpaws]

Plenty of time I mean its impossible to move him really within the 2 years left in Matthews contract. once he resigns I think Tavares only has 1 year left after that lots of space freed up. we just gotta...... it is what it is. gotta get through this. I think forcing Tavares out from the fans will just give FAs more reason not to sign here.

not one free agent would give a damn how we treated Tavares , how did the Rangers treat Richards and Shatentkirk ? and players still flock to them

 

[Arthur Morgan]

not one free agent would give a damn how we treated Tavares , how did the Rangers treat Richards and Shatentkirk ? and players still flock to them

I dunno how excited Id be to sign long term if it means there's a good chance the fan base turns on me. rather sign for a US team where I can play hockey and live a peaceful life.

 

[LeafEgo]

Love Tavares. what made the signing become bad is the flat cap era. cap should have gone up between 2-3m every season since we signed him. however in that time it has gone up around 3m and now that large contract is kind of a bummer. but it is what it is. he cant be moved and we shouldnt go down the road to treat him poorly till he is heart broken enough to actually waive his full NTC
us as fans are so toxic at times.

Agreed - JT simply signed a market value contract that was offered to him and has performed pretty close to what should have been expected of him.

The team, cap, and strategy that was then built around his signing has nothing to do with him.

He got a NMC clause which is understandable and typical for where he was in his career. Need to honor that.

 

[ULF_55]

Plenty of time I mean its impossible to move him really within the 2 years left in Matthews contract. once he resigns I think Tavares only has 1 year left after that lots of space freed up. we just gotta...... it is what it is. gotta get through this. I think forcing Tavares out from the fans will just give FAs more reason not to sign here.

I hope Matthews doesn't resign.

That would suck.

I was hoping he'd re-sign for 8 years.

:petpeeve: