John Tavares Discussion

[hotpaws]

Name a comparable NMC like JT’s in Toronto that got moved mid contract.

Hometown UFA comes home to finish his career… signs a contract that takes him to retirement… then waives his NMC mid contract to get traded away from his hometown.

Who’s the closest comparable to this scenario?

I think you’re in for a few more years of whining and crying about John Tavares… he’s going to retire a Toronto Maple Leaf.

sorry if i don't enjoy getting knocked out of the first rd every year as much as you seem too , but hey we get to watch Johnny struggle to get around the ice for another 3 years which is much more entertaining than long playoff runs

 

[thusk]

there's no use trying to improve a line with Tvaraes because there's never been a player good enough to play with him according to his followers who have thrown every teammate he's ever had under the bus

and i don't give a damn if he has a nmc , he wouldn't be the first nor the last player to get moved who had a full mc/ntc so why do you think his case is so special ?

player who played at least 50% of the season with jt and get their best season in carreer with him

Okposo, moulson, bailey, parenteau, lee, kerfoot and you can add Nylander to that list

Only 4 player didn't had their best season playing at least 50% with JT

-Hyman and marner , both had hit with Matthews
-Thomas vanek who joined the team after like 15 game in the season and left at trade deadline ( so chemistry was not high but still had a great year)
-Brad Boyes

So yes its a pretty awful player making everyone around him looking worst!!!!! He had thrown his teammate under the bus all his carreer... youre right...

 

[egd27]

When it comes to sports psychology, the psychologist can frame the session so the focus is on a common team goal. What does age and background have to do with anything? It’s not a variable in terms of achieving the team goal. Athletes of different abilities, ages, backgrounds always come together to win a championship. Not sure why it would all of a sudden be an issue.

I was talking about the acceptance of working with a psychologist of any type to begin with. Some guys likely won't be thrilled with shortening their summer by week or two, and others may believe it's nothing but "mumbo jumbo". But as said in the last post, may as well try. The idea certainly has a "Dubas feel" to it

 

[hotpaws]

player who played at least 50% of the season with jt and get their best season in carreer with him

Okposo, moulson, bailey, parenteau, lee, kerfoot and you can add Nylander to that list

Only 4 player didn't had their best season playing at least 50% with JT

-Hyman and marner , both had hit with Matthews
-Thomas vanek who joined the team after like 15 game in the season and left at trade deadline ( so chemistry was not high but still had a great year)
-Brad Boyes

So yes its a pretty awful player making everyone around him looking worst!!!!! He had thrown his teammate under the bus all his carreer... youre right...

yup poor Johnny has been stuck playing with garbage his entire career. look how the Islanders fell to pieces the second he left

and all poor Johnny needs is his linemates to do all the heavy lifting while he hangs around the net in open space waiting for them to feed the him puck so he can carry them , is that so much to ask for ?

 

[thusk]

yup poor Johnny has been stuck playing with garbage his entire career. look how the Islanders fell to pieces the second he left

and all poor Johnny needs is his linemates to do all the heavy lifting while he hangs around the net in open space waiting for them to feed the him puck so he can carry them , is that so much to ask for ?

Oh its tavares fault because he was in an awful team ?

Probably because of
- hall, edmonton was unable to make anything good, arizona missed playoff
- eichel fault if Buffalo was trash and vegas missed playoff...
-Probably huberdeau fault if florida reach playoff only once still he have 27 ( age tavares left islanders) didnt win playoff series since this season to be swept the next one?

Why one player should be responsible for everything happening on the ice? Since the moment tavares joined islanders, the only team who was able to be worst defensive side was Edmonton... 3.03 allowed in 9 season he was playing with islanders( edmonton was at 3.06)... probably Tavares fault if he wasn't playing both of centre, dmen and goalie at the same time?

 

[WillyC]

sorry if i don't enjoy getting knocked out of the first rd every year as much as you seem too , but hey we get to watch Johnny struggle to get around the ice for another 3 years which is much more entertaining than long playoff runs

As I figured, you can’t come up with a comparable NMC like JT’s that got moved mid contract… because there isn’t one on a hometown UFA like Tavares.

Just helping put this into perspective… so you don’t spend the next few years thinking about your next Tavares trade.

11 million or 7 million… that 4 million is not what’s stopping the Leafs from winning.

John Tavares is going to be Captain of the Leafs, until, at the very least, Auston Matthews signs a new deal.

 

[hotpaws]

As I figured, you can’t come up with a comparable NMC like JT’s that got moved mid contract… because there isn’t one on a hometown UFA like Tavares.

Just helping put this into perspective… so you don’t spend the next few years thinking about your next Tavares trade.

11 million or 7 million… that 4 million is not what’s stopping the Leafs from winning.

John Tavares is going to be Captain of the Leafs, until, at the very least, Auston Matthews signs a new deal.

yup , i can't find another home town ufa who waived his nmc and to be honest i didn't look and i couldn't care less whether there is any since it has no bearing on getting JT to waive unless you believe if we had an example like say Guy from Mon signing as a ufa with the Habs and then waiving that would mean JT would waive as well

and why would an extra 4m in cap be helpful in winning ? sure we could use it combined with an existing goalie salary to try to get a legit num1 but hey since when is a quality goalie important when your goal is the cup , am i right

 

[hotpaws]

Oh its tavares fault because he was in an awful team ?

Probably because of
- hall, edmonton was unable to make anything good, arizona missed playoff
- eichel fault if Buffalo was trash and vegas missed playoff...
-Probably huberdeau fault if florida reach playoff only once still he have 27 ( age tavares left islanders) didnt win playoff series since this season to be swept the next one?

Why one player should be responsible for everything happening on the ice? Since the moment tavares joined islanders, the only team who was able to be worst defensive side was Edmonton... 3.03 allowed in 9 season he was playing with islanders( edmonton was at 3.06)... probably Tavares fault if he wasn't playing both of centre, dmen and goalie at the same time?

seems like the Islanders weren't that awful the second he left

maybe and i'm just spit balling here , maybe while Johnny is a good player he isn't a a great player and not a player you should cater to and revolve the entire team around as evidenced at how poorly they performed while he was there and how well they did the second he left

 

[JL17]

Tavares is a Kessel a nice supporting piece. He’s not an elite anything. Certainly shouldn’t captain a team. He’s an 7-8 million dollar 2nd line Center. He’s never won anything or lead a team to anything. When you pay a guy 11 mil he better be driving his own line and not needing Marner to put points on the board. 11 million dollar players don’t go 18-19 games without scoring or with only a few points in that span. How was Nylander Kerfoot and whomever so good against Montreal in the playoffs but insert JT and nobody can do a thing?

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I have no clue why they didn’t go 2 years at a higher aav if they really thought marleau was the missing piece.
You could’ve given him pretty much the same total money over 2 years by not giving Zaitsev 7 years and come out cap neutral and in much better position.

Yup, I remember my brother telling me they just signed Marleau and I asked him the term, he said 3 years I was like nah you probably reading it wrong. Must be 2 tops.. I'm guessing the idea was to create a cap squeeze to try to force the big 3 to signing for less? I dont know made no sense

 

[thusk]

seems like the Islanders weren't that awful the second he left

maybe and i'm just spit balling here , maybe while Johnny is a good player he isn't a a great player and not a player you should cater to and revolve the entire team around as evidenced at how poorly they performed while he was there and how well they did the second he left

Yeah young d (pulock, pelech, mayfield) grow up and started to be able to play a higher role and islanders stop being the worst D in the league. Its the only reason why islanders stop sucking, nothing about offensive but everything about defensive...

 

[JL17]

Yeah young d (pulock, pelech, mayfield) grow up and started to be able to play a higher role and islanders stop being the worst D in the league. Its the only reason why islanders stop sucking, nothing about offensive but everything about defensive...

Where does Trotz fit into this time line. GAA went down when he showed up.

 

[socko]

Making Tavares one of the highest paid players in the league was crazy. He's been overrated since the very start of his career. It's like making Dave Andreychuk one of the highest paid players in the league. Nice player, 50 goal scorer, great career, but you don't pay guys like this like they're Steve Yzerman.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Because tavares will stay you like it or not... choosing between tavares and nylander is as hard than choosing between a ryan getzlaf or bobby ryan in my mind... and the way to upgrade that second line with TAVARES is trading away nylander and his 7M to get player who will fit in...

Agreed we're stuck with Tavares.

The best way to upgrade that second line is to move Tavares to the third line.

 

[HockeyVirus]

People talk like Tavares as if he scored 40 points it's insane. People compare him to Matthews and see the gap and think he is overpaid. In reality, Matthews is just that good and underpaid.

Tavares IMO needs to have one of those offseasons where he hires new trainers and tries to change how he approaches his game. Re-invent himself, maybe drop some weight to get a touch faster, focus his drills on certain areas, and have a career year at 32 like some other players have done when they were written off as being finished.

If I was him, I'd be pissed at so many people writing him off as done and unable to play center. Hopefully he has a good support group to help him block out some of the noise and keep confidence in his abilities, and uses the rest as motivation. Simply going for runs, lifting weights, etc is not good enough for him any more. He needs a legit trainer to focus on specifics and identify parts of his game that no longer work well and how to adapt them to the modern NHL.

 

[The Management]

People talk like Tavares as if he scored 40 points it's insane. People compare him to Matthews and see the gap and think he is overpaid. In reality, Matthews is just that good and underpaid.

Tavares IMO needs to have one of those offseasons where he hires new trainers and tries to change how he approaches his game. Re-invent himself, maybe drop some weight to get a touch faster, focus his drills on certain areas, and have a career year at 32 like some other players have done when they were written off as being finished.

If I was him, I'd be pissed at so many people writing him off as done and unable to play center. Hopefully he has a good support group to help him block out some of the noise and keep confidence in his abilities, and uses the rest as motivation. Simply going for runs, lifting weights, etc is not good enough for him any more. He needs a legit trainer to focus on specifics and identify parts of his game that no longer work well and how to adapt them to the modern NHL.

I agree. I hope he trains hard this offseason. Point per game, good on the dot, decent shot blocker, and pretty good in front of the opposing net in terms of generating rebounds. I'd like to see him work on his shot from other parts of the ice, work on his scoring touch. In addition to (of course) his skating.

 

[notDatsyuk]

People talk like Tavares as if he scored 40 points it's insane. People compare him to Matthews and see the gap and think he is overpaid. In reality, Matthews is just that good and underpaid.

Tavares IMO needs to have one of those offseasons where he hires new trainers and tries to change how he approaches his game. Re-invent himself, maybe drop some weight to get a touch faster, focus his drills on certain areas, and have a career year at 32 like some other players have done when they were written off as being finished.

If I was him, I'd be pissed at so many people writing him off as done and unable to play center. Hopefully he has a good support group to help him block out some of the noise and keep confidence in his abilities, and uses the rest as motivation. Simply going for runs, lifting weights, etc is not good enough for him any more. He needs a legit trainer to focus on specifics and identify parts of his game that no longer work well and how to adapt them to the modern NHL.

Are you sure that the Leafs don't have "a legit trainer to focus on specifics and identify parts of his game that no longer work well and how to adapt them to the modern NHL"?

If not, they must be the only team in the league (I guess along with the Islanders) who don't.

I think it's more likely that "this is all he is".

 

[CDN24]

People talk like Tavares as if he scored 40 points it's insane. People compare him to Matthews and see the gap and think he is overpaid. In reality, Matthews is just that good and underpaid.

Tavares IMO needs to have one of those offseasons where he hires new trainers and tries to change how he approaches his game. Re-invent himself, maybe drop some weight to get a touch faster, focus his drills on certain areas, and have a career year at 32 like some other players have done when they were written off as being finished.

If I was him, I'd be pissed at so many people writing him off as done and unable to play center. Hopefully he has a good support group to help him block out some of the noise and keep confidence in his abilities, and uses the rest as motivation. Simply going for runs, lifting weights, etc is not good enough for him any more. He needs a legit trainer to focus on specifics and identify parts of his game that no longer work well and how to adapt them to the modern NHL.

He is overpaid- Here is the list of forwards who make at least $11M who had less points than JT

No one

Okay here is the list of forwards making $9M who had less points than JT Min 72 games played

Kopitar
Seguin
Benn
Skinner

He is overpaid for what he brings and his role.

 

[The Management]

He is overpaid- Here is the list of forwards who make at least $11M who had less points than JT

No one

Okay here is the list of forwards making $9M who had less points than JT Min 72 games played

Kopitar
Seguin
Benn
Skinner

He is overpaid for what he brings and his role.

Isn't Kopitar's cap hit 10m or am I mistaken?

 

[keonsbitterness]

As I figured, you can’t come up with a comparable NMC like JT’s that got moved mid contract… because there isn’t one on a hometown UFA like Tavares.

Just helping put this into perspective… so you don’t spend the next few years thinking about your next Tavares trade.

11 million or 7 million… that 4 million is not what’s stopping the Leafs from winning.

John Tavares is going to be Captain of the Leafs, until, at the very least, Auston Matthews signs a new deal.

It would probably take the Leafs being a non-playoff team at the 24-25 trade deadline for Tavares to waive so he could chase a Cup.

 

[thusk]

He is overpaid- Here is the list of forwards who make at least $11M who had less points than JT

No one

Okay here is the list of forwards making $9M who had less points than JT Min 72 games played

Kopitar
Seguin
Benn
Skinner

He is overpaid for what he brings and his role.

Yeah for sure stop at 72 to not include toews at 71 game, point at 66

Top 10 highest salary amount Centre who had more pts/ game played than tavares

Mcdavid
Matthews
Barkov

3 of 9... so try again

 

[Shooter2x]

He is overpaid- Here is the list of forwards who make at least $11M who had less points than JT

No one

Okay here is the list of forwards making $9M who had less points than JT Min 72 games played

Kopitar
Seguin
Benn
Skinner

He is overpaid for what he brings and his role.

Majority of the overpayment is due to economics.

He still provides 8-9.5 mil of value today. Sleep better at night, pretend it's closer to the 9 mil. When Matthews is injured he definitely steps up closer to the 9.5 mil no.1 C territory.

I personally think Tavares provides around 9 mil of value when you take into account every aspect of the game not just offence. I am perfectly fine with the 2 mil in residual fees for getting to add him for free.

 

[Stephen]

Oh its tavares fault because he was in an awful team ?

Probably because of
- hall, edmonton was unable to make anything good, arizona missed playoff
- eichel fault if Buffalo was trash and vegas missed playoff...
-Probably huberdeau fault if florida reach playoff only once still he have 27 ( age tavares left islanders) didnt win playoff series since this season to be swept the next one?

Why one player should be responsible for everything happening on the ice? Since the moment tavares joined islanders, the only team who was able to be worst defensive side was Edmonton... 3.03 allowed in 9 season he was playing with islanders( edmonton was at 3.06)... probably Tavares fault if he wasn't playing both of centre, dmen and goalie at the same time?

The Islanders weren't that awful of a team for the duration of Tavares' time there. They finished with back to back 100 point seasons in 2015 and 2016 and made the playoffs once or twice apart from those years. Kind of an average talent, modestly successful club with a lot of ingredients that later went on to have success on the Trotz/Lamoriello teams. The idea that Tavares was alone with a group of AHL guys is not really the story there.

 

[Stephen]

People talk like Tavares as if he scored 40 points it's insane. People compare him to Matthews and see the gap and think he is overpaid. In reality, Matthews is just that good and underpaid.

Tavares IMO needs to have one of those offseasons where he hires new trainers and tries to change how he approaches his game. Re-invent himself, maybe drop some weight to get a touch faster, focus his drills on certain areas, and have a career year at 32 like some other players have done when they were written off as being finished.

If I was him, I'd be pissed at so many people writing him off as done and unable to play center. Hopefully he has a good support group to help him block out some of the noise and keep confidence in his abilities, and uses the rest as motivation. Simply going for runs, lifting weights, etc is not good enough for him any more. He needs a legit trainer to focus on specifics and identify parts of his game that no longer work well and how to adapt them to the modern NHL.

The problem with Tavares is rarely to do with points though. It's how impactful he is on an average 5 on 5 shift or how he's fitting in with the flow of the rest of the team, with his salary cap hit factored in. People like to blame William Nylander for his struggles, but a good though experiment is just imagine Nylander on the Colorado Avalanche or Tavares on the Colorado Avalanche. Who fits into that run and gun, attack style game?

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

The problem with Tavares is rarely to do with points though. It's how impactful he is on an average 5 on 5 shift or how he's fitting in with the flow of the rest of the team, with his salary cap hit factored in. People like to blame William Nylander for his struggles, but a good though experiment is just imagine Nylander on the Colorado Avalanche or Tavares on the Colorado Avalanche. Who fits into that run and gun, attack style game?

They both would fit into that team and light it up