Proposal: Joel Edmundson to Oilers

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I think the injury situation is a bit overblown He had 1 season with 1 significant injury + personal time with the passing of is father… If MTL had been in playoff contention he would have been on the ice, a lot sooner, the pain thresholds (like moral) was a pretty lower last year in MTL.

With the salary and term involved it is an issue. In the Covid Cap era of flat cap any contending team considering trading for him need to be confident in his full health and recovery. It's a razor's edge to make deals and health is imperative especially when the asset plays a big, heavy game. A back injury that keeps a player out for a majority of a season is a red flag that cannot be overlooked. Can't just burn up your trade collateral and cap space - with quite possibly also a third party sweetener - for a player with health problems (+ one whose had some team discussion about prospective need for a medical procedure to correct).

Only way to find out is a bounce back year of good health and quality minutes played. Let's see where he is at late February/early March.

 

[Sherwoo9]

That's fair, the reason I listed him as a #4 is because to be a #3, you have to be able to anchor the 2nd pair. Petry was the anchor on that pair. Edmundson has been good on the 2nd pair, but he's never been the anchor guy, until this year. I guess we'll see how that goes as the season progresses, but I would still suggest he is a #4 until he proves otherwise.

I can get on board with most of what you said, but then I have no idea why you could think that Chiarot was seen as a 2/3 because he was also clearly the complement more than the anchor… I just come back to the fact that they are very similar players who should hold similar value, all other things equal (term, retention, health).

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I would be surprised if Edmundson gets what Chairot got. Chairot was seen as a 2/3. Edmundson is a solid 4 on most teams. His price tag isn't exactly cheap either. He makes 3.5M, which is fair for a #4 defenseman, especially in a market where cap space is so hard to come by.

Chiarot was all ways a second pairing dman. He is now earning 4.75M AAV. Ed is really good value at 3.5M in comparison.

But health is the issue that may impact his trade value.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Oiler fan here. I like Edmundson a fair bit going back to his Dub junior days. High character, physical and aggressive d-man who can play 18-20 minutes fits very well to the Oilers primary need. He's got solid deep playoff experience which is a nice intangible.

The issue is health. He's missed much of last year and recurrence of a major injury is a real concern. This is a player who will have to show the injury issue is behind him to establish the trade market and value. There's likely salary retention required with a deal to any contender and the salary next year is both a positive in having a second pair defender for two prospective playoff runs but a potential issue if the injury issues continue to be a problem.

He's a player I think the Oilers could (and should) have interest in, imo. The trade value comes into focus once Edmundson proves himself healthy with a sustained regular season back in the line-up and not on the trainer's table.

Agree 100%. If healthy he’s a guy every coach wants for a playoff run. Especially when the refs put their whistles away. Ed also is a good fighter who protects his teammates.

 

[calder candidate]

With the salary and term involved it is an issue. In the Covid Cap era of flat cap any contending team considering trading for him need to be confident in his full health and recovery. It's a razor's edge to make deals and health is imperative especially when the asset plays a big, heavy game. A back injury that keeps a player out for a majority of a season is a red flag that cannot be overlooked. Can't just burn up your trade collateral and cap space - with quite possibly also a third party sweetener - for a player with health problems (+ one whose had some team discussion about prospective need for a medical procedure to correct).

Only way to find out is a bounce back year of good health and quality minutes played. Let's see where he is at late February/early March.

Not saying health should not be a concern just saying that Edmondson injury problem are overblown. There was a context to him missing most of the season last year and there plenty of time for him to prove that he is 100% before TDL.

 

[snipes]

I like Edmunson, injuries concern me a bit. He’s definitely the type of D we need. Big, physical, defensive D man.

I‘d like him with Barrie or Bouchard.

Montreal would need to retain, not even sure what a reasonable ask is here.

 

[McJedi]

Toffoli?

His was a good contract. You see any more of those?

 

[HabbyGuy]

His was a good contract. You see any more of those?

Are you insinuating Edmundson's isn't?

 

[McJedi]

Are you insinuating Edmundson's isn't?

It’s a better deal next year when he’s a rental. It’s not a bad deal though. It’s not good either. He’s a bottom pair guy on any contender. So his AAV is high for that role. Habs can retain next year to push that down. That’s when he’ll get traded for value. Like Chiarot.

 

[viceroy]

33% GF, 38% xGF.

I'm sure teams are lining up for a defensive defenseman who can't play defense.

It's just not just about reading stats sunshine, you also have to interpret them. Edmundson got tough match-ups and was often relied to try to bail out the Habs' leaky goaltending. Kinda like when Petry used to play for EDM, many stats said he sucked but MTL interpreted those numbers correctly and got some great years out of him.

NO,NO,NO. Please don't confuse him with us guys. I would believe that all but ONE^ think he's worth 2 -1st which is absurd.

I think he can get 2 1sts' value. i.e. a 1st rounder and a Barron type prospect.

this is going to age like milk

So which one of our 4 rookie D-men you think is gonna crap out? Anywho once Matheson returns either Harris, Xhekaj or Kovacevic is out. Personally I'd like Jack-eye in the AHL to get his reps in and play 20+min per game.

 

[dirtydanglez]

It's just not just about reading stats sunshine, you also have to interpret them. Edmundson got tough match-ups and was often relied to try to bail out the Habs' leaky goaltending. Kinda like when Petry used to play for EDM, many stats said he sucked but MTL interpreted those numbers correctly and got some great years out of him.



I think he can get 2 1sts' value. i.e. a 1st rounder and a Barron type prospect.



So which one of our 4 rookie D-men you think is gonna crap out? Anywho once Matheson returns either Harris, Xhekaj or Kovacevic is out. Personally I'd like Jack-eye in the AHL to get his reps in and play 20+min per game.

all of them but guhle.

 

[Natey]

The top 10 maybe top 15 looks very very good but I'm not sure it's as deep as you might think after that. I don't really see guys like Jiricek or Savoie after 15 and last year wasn't considered a very good draft...

There's literally guys ranked near the bottom of the 1st round on pace for nearly 120 points in the CHL.

Matt Savoie has 19 points in 15 games this year and ranks like 6th on his team in scoring. Koehn Ziemmer, ranked anywhere from 24th to 45th, has 33 points in 19 games in the same league and leads his team in scoring.

This draft is insane in the 1st round.

 

[McDNicks17]

It's just not just about reading stats sunshine, you also have to interpret them. Edmundson got tough match-ups and was often relied to try to bail out the Habs' leaky goaltending. Kinda like when Petry used to play for EDM, many stats said he sucked but MTL interpreted those numbers correctly and got some great years out of him

Those are from this season where he's been getting the highest offensive zone push on the team and playing against third pairing competition haha.

 

[jfhabs]

There's literally guys ranked near the bottom of the 1st round on pace for nearly 120 points in the CHL.

Matt Savoie has 19 points in 15 games this year and ranks like 6th on his team in scoring. Koehn Ziemmer, ranked anywhere from 24th to 45th, has 33 points in 19 games in the same league and leads his team in scoring.

This draft is insane in the 1st round.

Well I sure hope you are right, since Montreal owns 2 first round picks right now and it looks more and more like both might be outside the top 10.

Let's see if these pace materialize first. Time and time again, people say X draft is generational. Sure the top of this one looks like it but the 15+ guys...? I personnally haven't seen enough yet, but I'm not a professional.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Health will be a big determining factor of value but another factor is going to be the market, it’s likely going to be a buyers market this year.

With such elite talent at the top and such a strong first round top to bottom there’s going to be lots of sellers both in terms of teams dumping to go for a top 5 pick but also lots of sellers looking to add another pick or two in the first round. Likewise I think buying GM’s won’t be so keen on giving up 1st for this draft.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I like Edmunson, injuries concern me a bit. He’s definitely the type of D we need. Big, physical, defensive D man.

I‘d like him with Barrie or Bouchard.

Montreal would need to retain, not even sure what a reasonable ask is here.

If Eddy plays all the way up to the deadline and does what he usually does, the injuries will be in the background.
Habs are not desperate to move Eddy. He has one year in term left after this year. He has great value when you look at his cap hit and his ability to play both sides very well. Not an offensive glare type but he is someone that is very physical and the coach can lean heavy on him for defensive play.

Lots of people say It was all Price in our cup run but Danault with that top 4D (Weber, Chiarot, Petry, Eddy) deserve a lot of credit.

Price is a late 1st and B prospect. Retention is on the table but price may increase. He's not a rental and he is a legit top 4D who can play both sides. This will be sought after at the deadline (no doubt in my mind).

 

[jfhabs]

Health will be a big determining factor of value but another factor is going to be the market, it’s likely going to be a buyers market this year.

With such elite talent at the top and such a strong first round top to bottom there’s going to be lots of sellers both in terms of teams dumping to go for a top 5 pick but also lots of sellers looking to add another pick or two in the first round. Likewise I think buying GM’s won’t be so keen on giving up 1st for this draft.

I don't see that many sellers. I don't see any clear sellers in the East. Teams like Buffalo, Detroit, Columbus, Montreal might sell a piece if they are out of it, but none of the teams in the east is tanking.

Sellers might come from the west, but the clear tankers most likely have dumped most of their valuable trade chip already. In terms of rentals at least. Hoarvat and O'Reilly might be the best available forwards.

I really don't see many available top 4 rentals.

You have Klingberg in Anaheim, but he isn't typically what teams in the playoffs are looking for. Most of the playoffs teams already have their #1 puck mover.
Gavrikov out of Columbus, but he's having a tough start.
Dumba from Minnesota, comes with a 6M price tag, don't think they'll be sellers.

I'd say Gavrikov and Edmundson would be the best realistic option for most teams because of their roles and contract situation. There really isn't much available on defense in terms of rental.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

I don't see that many sellers. I don't see any clear sellers in the East. Teams like Buffalo, Detroit, Columbus, Montreal might sell a piece if they are out of it, but none of the teams in the east is tanking.

Sellers might come from the west, but the clear tankers most likely have dumped most of their valuable trade chip already. In terms of rentals at least. Hoarvat and O'Reilly might be the best available forwards.

I really don't see many available top 4 rentals.

You have Klingberg in Anaheim, but he isn't typically what teams in the playoffs are looking for. Most of the playoffs teams already have their #1 puck mover.
Gavrikov out of Columbus, but he's having a tough start.
Dumba from Minnesota, comes with a 6M price tag, don't think they'll be sellers.

I'd say Gavrikov and Edmundson would be the best realistic option for most teams because of their roles and contract situation. There really isn't much available on defense in terms of rental.

It’s 12-15 games into the season, the market won’t start opening up until the new year when the playoff teams and non playoff teams start separating themselves and with such a strong draft, bubble teams will likely be more inclined to sell instead of buying. Then you factor in so many of the upper tier teams being up against the cap or heavily into ltir and that will have an effect on how many teams are realistically able to buy.

The fact that you have Bedard, Michkov, Fantilli, Carlsson who in a draft like last year would all be in the convo for first overall, that’s enticing for teams who are in the bottom 10-12 of the league after American thanksgiving. Then in deep drafts such as this, teams are always looking to add another 1st if they can, even if it’s a late one.

In a year like this as a buyer it’s always best to wait and let the market develop. Just looking around, maybe Seattle tumbles and they make a guy like Soucy available, if Washington can’t pull up they’ve got Jensen and Orlov as UFA’s, McCabe in Chicago not a rental but could be available, Coyotes are always open for business and Ghostibere is pending free agent, Ducks are bottomed out and have Klingberg, Kulikov, Shattenkirk. Detroit has Maatta who’s a pending ufa and has looked good this season, Sens have some upcoming raises, can they afford to keep Zub, he’d get a nice return if they are out of it. Then there’s Dumba like you mentioned. What about the Preds? If they can’t improve would they entertain offers for Mcdonagh or Ekholm, they’ve got a lot of money on that left side between those two and Josi. What about the Flyers? Could they be convinced to part with Provorov for a nice package if they sink.

Obviously not all these scenarios will come to pass but there are plenty of potential options out there and likely some we don’t even know about. The smart thing to do is to wait until there’s a better picture of who’s for sure available and who could be available.

 

[jfhabs]

It’s 12-15 games into the season, the market won’t start opening up until the new year when the playoff teams and non playoff teams start separating themselves and with such a strong draft, bubble teams will likely be more inclined to sell instead of buying. Then you factor in so many of the upper tier teams being up against the cap or heavily into ltir and that will have an effect on how many teams are realistically able to buy.

The fact that you have Bedard, Michkov, Fantilli, Carlsson who in a draft like last year would all be in the convo for first overall, that’s enticing for teams who are in the bottom 10-12 of the league after American thanksgiving. Then in deep drafts such as this, teams are always looking to add another 1st if they can, even if it’s a late one.

In a year like this as a buyer it’s always best to wait and let the market develop. Just looking around, maybe Seattle tumbles and they make a guy like Soucy available, if Washington can’t pull up they’ve got Jensen and Orlov as UFA’s, McCabe in Chicago not a rental but could be available, Coyotes are always open for business and Ghostibere is pending free agent, Ducks are bottomed out and have Klingberg, Kulikov, Shattenkirk. Detroit has Maatta who’s a pending ufa and has looked good this season, Sens have some upcoming raises, can they afford to keep Zub, he’d get a nice return if they are out of it. Then there’s Dumba like you mentioned. What about the Preds? If they can’t improve would they entertain offers for Mcdonagh or Ekholm, they’ve got a lot of money on that left side between those two and Josi. What about the Flyers? Could they be convinced to part with Provorov for a nice package if they sink.

Obviously not all these scenarios will come to pass but there are plenty of potential options out there and likely some we don’t even know about. The smart thing to do is to wait until there’s a better picture of who’s for sure available and who could be available.

Oh I agree we should wait and see. I just think it was premature to call it a buyers market. If anything, last year was a buyers market with so many teams clearly out of the picture early one. I was just pointing out it doesn't look like this will happen again since it's very tight in the east right now.

We're in a Edmundson thread so I was just looking at comparables possibly on the market for buyers.
I don't see teams like the Preds (McDonagh, Ekholm and JOSI) , Sens (Zub), Philly (Provorov,) and Washington (Orlov, Jensen) trading some of their best defensemen at all.

Ghostibere is probably not what playoffs teams are looking for. Shouldn't at least IMO.
Soucy could be a good trading chip, but I really doubt Seattly trades him if they have a shot at the playoffs.
Dumba could also be a nice piece, but lots of dollars to eat.

Really, top 4 defenseman as rentals are super hard to find. That's why guys like Chiarot, Giordano, Lindholm, Manson got great returns. This year, it will probably be harder to find a got rental dman then a center, which should tell you a lot.

 

[Lockin17]

Habs: Edy (1.5mil retained) + Norlinder + Ylonen
for
Oilers : Broberg

 

[McSuper]

Edmundson is a beast and on a good contract. You win cups with big rugged dudes like him in your top 4 + he's great in the locker room. Easily fetches a first if he's healthy.

So you win Cup with him, Price, Chariot and Anderson. May I ask how many cups the Habs won with them? I am not trying to be a dick but Montreal fans have been saying this about players on the trade block for the last 2 years. With so many players that you win a cup with you think you would've won at lease 1. You know chemistry matters and most trades don't work. Chariot did do shit after he was traded.

 

[Natey]

So you win Cup with him, Price, Chariot and Anderson. May I ask how many cups the Habs won with them? I am not trying to be a dick but Montreal fans have been saying this about players on the trade block for the last 2 years. With so many players that you win a cup with you think you would've won at lease 1. You know chemistry matters and most trades don't work. Chariot did do shit after he was traded.

Edmundson did win a cup though...

 

[jaric1862]

Edmundson can play both sides, right?

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Kenny traded a 2nd for kulak so I guess this is the one guy that might pay up for Edmondson lol

To be fair, without Kulak the Oilers don't make the final four.

That alone makes the pick worth it.

 

[Lockin17]

Edmundson can play both sides, right?

Not really,
He sucks on the right side.