Proposal: Joel Edmundson to Oilers

[dirtydanglez]

id say kulak price is a fair price for edmundson.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Leks got Barron, (who is a recent 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick
chiarot got a 1st, plus ..
Hague got 2 firsts for Chicago out of Tampa
eddy worth 2 firsts because he is on a team friendly deal for next season as well, meaning 2 playoff runs for a contending team, any team offering only a late first, I hope Hugo would hang up the phone and block the caller.
Besides any team paying only a first for eddy this year can get that pick back next year at the trade deadline ,Besides if the habs are contending for the playoffs this year, than keep eddy until next season, evaluate accordingly.

Lehkonen was an upcoming RFA with more team control possible than 1.5 years. Bad comparable.

Chairot had 50% retention, and was a 2/3 for you, where Edmundson has been a clear #4. Bad comparable.

Hagel is probably the worst comparable you could make. He wasn't even being shopped, so Tampa overpaid to get him. He was having a 20 goal season, is making only 1.5M, is signed for 3 more years and is then an RFA. I don't see how there is any way you can compare a 25 goal, 45 point winger on a 1.5M contract who is under team control for at least 2 years (up to 10 years), with a defensive defenseman making 3.5M for another year and a half before UFA status hits, and a fairly extensive recent injury history.

Edmundson might not even be worth one first, and you guys think he's going to get you two?

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Historically, he's been a #4 when playing with a good #3. The Chairot deal is another bad one that should show GM's why they shouldn't dump 1sts for average middle pair defensemen.

I think most agree that he would be a good partner for Barrie or Bouchard. That's not the issue here. The issue is some trying to pass him off as a high end 2nd pair guy when historically he hasn't quite been to that level.

I like Edmundson. But I think given what we are working with currently, if our 1st is going to be in the conversation, we need to be aiming higher. We need a guy who can anchor a 2nd pair with a high end offensive defenseman with defensive lapses (Bouchard). Playing alongside Petry isn't the same.

To be fair, I haven't seen Xhekaj play, so if Edmundson is having to cover for him and is doing so, then he might be an option. But likely still not for our 1st.


Chairot getting a 1st (with max retention) doesn't mean that Edmundson will get the same. I don't see why Chairot getting a 1st has anything to do with Edmundson. You guys were trying to sell Chairot as a solid #2 and that was the basis for him getting a 1st. Edmundson isn't a #2. He's a capable 2nd pair guy when he's been played with a solid #3. The value of these two players isn't the same.

Just to add ....

Xhekaj played with Wideman earlier as Eddie was injured. Wideman is terrible. Xhekaj was covering for him.

While Xhekaj appears to be the big, tough stay at home home D, he actually isn't. He's a strong skater who likes to go with the puck. He's been driving play more the last few games, as Eddie stays home for him.

Xhekaj looks more confident with Edmundson backing him up, but it's only been like 2-3 games since they've been together. Initially, Edmundson was put with Harris.

I'll be interested to see how these 2 progress myself.

Eddie will also protect his teammates and goalie, and can actually fight. He seems pretty well loved by his teammates. Apparently, he's essentially the team's social director.

 

[calder candidate]

Historically, he's been a #4 when playing with a good #3. The Chairot deal is another bad one that should show GM's why they shouldn't dump 1sts for average middle pair defensemen.

I think most agree that he would be a good partner for Barrie or Bouchard. That's not the issue here. The issue is some trying to pass him off as a high end 2nd pair guy when historically he hasn't quite been to that level.

I like Edmundson. But I think given what we are working with currently, if our 1st is going to be in the conversation, we need to be aiming higher. We need a guy who can anchor a 2nd pair with a high end offensive defenseman with defensive lapses (Bouchard). Playing alongside Petry isn't the same.

To be fair, I haven't seen Xhekaj play, so if Edmundson is having to cover for him and is doing so, then he might be an option. But likely still not for our 1st.


Chairot getting a 1st (with max retention) doesn't mean that Edmundson will get the same. I don't see why Chairot getting a 1st has anything to do with Edmundson. You guys were trying to sell Chairot as a solid #2 and that was the basis for him getting a 1st. Edmundson isn't a #2. He's a capable 2nd pair guy when he's been played with a solid #3. The value of these two players isn't the same.

Chiarot got a unprotected 1st in a 23 and not 22, unusually team that trade pick in the next draft because they know they will finish close to 30th or if they trade for a future draft they include protection, so this was very big value and is not the same has a team trading 1st for a rental. Edmundson is younger, cheaper and more reliable than Chiarot, but his value probably would have been 22 1st + prospect vs. Chiarot was 23 1st unprotected + prospect. Considering that Edmundson cheap and is not a rental and MTL has the ability to retain, the price will be set closer to 2x1st. The price for D is pretty well established maybe you don’t like it but I garantie that team have to over pay for these player, not only to improve their team but also to make sure they don’t have to play against them in the playoff.

 

[sheed36]

id say kulak price is a fair price for edmundson.

IMO Edmundson offers more value as a veteran mentor for the current crop of young Habs dmen than moving him for a 2nd + 7th + cap dump.

I'd rather the Habs just keep him for this season, if that's the best offer they can get for him, and look to move him next season as a rental and likely still get that return at next years trade deadline.

 

[dirtydanglez]

IMO Edmundson offers more value as a veteran mentor for the current crop of young Habs dmen than moving him for a 2nd + 7th + cap dump.

I'd rather the Habs just keep him for this season, if that's the best offer they can get for him, and look to move him next season as a rental and likely still get that return at next years trade deadline.

yea it's probably the best play for the habs considering the state of their blueline.

in terms of value i can't see him getting more of a return. he's a depth defender making $3.5m with term, has a partial ntc and also has major injury concerns.

 

[calder candidate]

IMO Edmundson offers more value as a veteran mentor for the current crop of young Habs dmen than moving him for a 2nd + 7th + cap dump.

I'd rather the Habs just keep him for this season, if that's the best offer they can get for him, and look to move him next season as a rental and likely still get that return at next years trade deadline.

Totally agree what ever people are offering right now is what MTL getting for him next TDL, even if it is a little more it isn’t worth losing what he bring to the team of waste a retain slot, since we need all 3 slot of dump other players. Also people only see fantasy value, in the playoff you need guys that will stay on the ice and lock it down.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Edmunson > Chiarot > Kulak

For sure lol

Chiarot and Edmunson were in the same tier of defensemen (Chiarot was meaner, with higher highs but lower lows and a bit more well rounded while Edmunson was just a BEAST defensively, a modern day Hall Gill if you will) and Kulak was a tier under them (solid defenseman overall who can step up as a #4 if needed but really shined on the bottom pair)

I think it was pretty much agreed among Habs fans

 

[ManofSteel55]

Chiarot got a unprotected 1st in a 23 and not 22, unusually team that trade pick in the next draft because they know they will finish close to 30th or if they trade for a future draft they include protection, so this was very big value and is not the same has a team trading 1st for a rental. Edmundson is younger, cheaper and more reliable than Chiarot, but his value probably would have been 22 1st + prospect vs. Chiarot was 23 1st unprotected + prospect. Considering that Edmundson cheap and is not a rental and MTL has the ability to retain, the price will be set closer to 2x1st. The price for D is pretty well established maybe you don’t like it but I garantie that team have to over pay for these player, not only to improve their team but also to make sure they don’t have to play against them in the playoff.

I would be surprised if Edmundson gets what Chairot got. Chairot was seen as a 2/3. Edmundson is a solid 4 on most teams. His price tag isn't exactly cheap either. He makes 3.5M, which is fair for a #4 defenseman, especially in a market where cap space is so hard to come by.

 

[Sherwoo9]

I would be surprised if Edmundson gets what Chairot got. Chairot was seen as a 2/3. Edmundson is a solid 4 on most teams. His price tag isn't exactly cheap either. He makes 3.5M, which is fair for a #4 defenseman, especially in a market where cap space is so hard to come by.

I always thought of Eddy as the no3 in a 4-1, 3-2 pairings since he had great chemistry and was a perfect complement to Petry. But him and Chiarot still were pretty close in the end.

He need to stay healthy and continue improving on game shape as the season goes on before somebody bites the price tag tho.
Retaining could be possible in current context I think, and if Hugues go there and Eddy plays as he can.. then he absolutely gets a 1st+ back with a 1.75M AAV.

My main concern is how they will manage the concern of laterality of defenders… if he plays w/ a lefty on his offside not adjusting well enough and it affects their common play… if Matheson were a RD, him and Eddy would be a great match just like it was with Petry.

 

[HuGort]

if traded this season,habs should get 2 firsts for eddy because the acquiring team will have him for 2 playoff runs at a team friendly salary, also the acquiring team can trade eddy next year for a first, so 1 first rounder right now is underselling. proof is in the results, Chiarot got a first ,plus last year on expiring contract.

Habs get a first for Edmunston all day long. He is solid defenseman adds toughness, can play either side, signed team friendly contract.

 

[TheNumber4]

Wrong threas

 

[calder candidate]

I would be surprised if Edmundson gets what Chairot got. Chairot was seen as a 2/3. Edmundson is a solid 4 on most teams. His price tag isn't exactly cheap either. He makes 3.5M, which is fair for a #4 defenseman, especially in a market where cap space is so hard to come by.

So why isn’t Edmundson worth 1st…
Chiarot got a unprotected 1st when they weren’t guaranteed to be a playoff team, which is way more valuable than especially in a draft with so much talent.
MTL still has the ability to retain, 1.75M$ for 2 playoff is massive value.
what can get right now and what can you get at the next trade deadline if there is no difference why would you trade him right now, since the other team is getting twice the value…

 

[ManofSteel55]

I always thought of Eddy as the no3 in a 4-1, 3-2 pairings since he had great chemistry and was a perfect complement to Petry. But him and Chiarot still were pretty close in the end.

He need to stay healthy and continue improving on game shape as the season goes on before somebody bites the price tag tho.
Retaining could be possible in current context I think, and if Hugues go there and Eddy plays as he can.. then he absolutely gets a 1st+ back with a 1.75M AAV.

My main concern is how they will manage the concern of laterality of defenders… if he plays w/ a lefty on his offside not adjusting well enough and it affects their common play… if Matheson were a RD, him and Eddy would be a great match just like it was with Petry.

That's fair, the reason I listed him as a #4 is because to be a #3, you have to be able to anchor the 2nd pair. Petry was the anchor on that pair. Edmundson has been good on the 2nd pair, but he's never been the anchor guy, until this year. I guess we'll see how that goes as the season progresses, but I would still suggest he is a #4 until he proves otherwise.

 

[ManofSteel55]

So why isn’t Edmundson worth 1st…
Chiarot got a unprotected 1st when they weren’t guaranteed to be a playoff team, which is way more valuable than especially in a draft with so much talent.
MTL still has the ability to retain, 1.75M$ for 2 playoff is massive value.
what can get right now and what can you get at the next trade deadline if there is no difference why would you trade him right now, since the other team is getting twice the value…

Because he's a #4 defenseman with a ton of injuries in recent years.

Chairot also had huge retention on his deal. A lot of Habs fans have said retention is off the table because he's got another year left. If enough is retained, a lot of players are worth a first, but the player alone isn't necessarily. Chairot is a great example of that. Habs fans were saying all year that they would get a 1st for him. And they did - with a ton of retention. If the Habs retain, then Edmundson's value does go up. Could he be worth a 1st with retention? I don't think so, not normally, but GM's have overpaid before and will again. I just think that 1sts tend to be saved for players who are more...special. More gamebreaker type. I think it's a big stretch for Edmundson to get a 1st though, he just isn't quite at the caliber that you typically see 1sts traded for, even with retention.

Honestly, I don't expect he will be traded. I think Montreal is smart to ask for a 1st for him. I also think they shouldn't trade him for less. But I wouldn't want to be the GM parting with my 1st round pick for Edmundson, that's for sure.

 

[JustAHabFan]

Edmundson is mentoring our young D. If we don't get a 1st, we simply keep him. There is no need to trade Edmundson. The Habs only trade him if there is s very good deal on the table.

 

[smirob]

I think he's going to have similar value to Chiarot at TDL if he can stay healthy.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Oiler fan here. I like Edmundson a fair bit going back to his Dub junior days. High character, physical and aggressive d-man who can play 18-20 minutes fits very well to the Oilers primary need. He's got solid deep playoff experience which is a nice intangible.

The issue is health. He's missed much of last year and recurrence of a major injury is a real concern. This is a player who will have to show the injury issue is behind him to establish the trade market and value. There's likely salary retention required with a deal to any contender and the salary next year is both a positive in having a second pair defender for two prospective playoff runs but a potential issue if the injury issues continue to be a problem.

He's a player I think the Oilers could (and should) have interest in, imo. The trade value comes into focus once Edmundson proves himself healthy with a sustained regular season back in the line-up and not on the trainer's table.

 

[ole ole]

Oiler fan here. I like Edmundson a fair bit going back to his Dub junior days. High character, physical and aggressive d-man who can play 18-20 minutes fits very well to the Oilers primary need. He's got solid deep playoff experience which is a nice intangible.

The issue is health. He's missed much of last year and recurrence of a major injury is a real concern. This is a player who will have to show the injury issue is behind him to establish the trade market and value. There's likely salary retention required with a deal to any contender and the salary next year is both a positive in having a second pair defender for two prospective playoff runs but a potential issue if the injury issues continue to be a problem.

He's a player I think the Oilers could (and should) have interest in, imo. The trade value comes into focus once Edmundson proves himself healthy with a sustained regular season back in the line-up and not on the trainer's table.

You just about nailed it. Bravo.

 

[ole ole]

Lehkonen was an upcoming RFA with more team control possible than 1.5 years. Bad comparable.

Chairot had 50% retention, and was a 2/3 for you, where Edmundson has been a clear #4. Bad comparable.

Hagel is probably the worst comparable you could make. He wasn't even being shopped, so Tampa overpaid to get him. He was having a 20 goal season, is making only 1.5M, is signed for 3 more years and is then an RFA. I don't see how there is any way you can compare a 25 goal, 45 point winger on a 1.5M contract who is under team control for at least 2 years (up to 10 years), with a defensive defenseman making 3.5M for another year and a half before UFA status hits, and a fairly extensive recent injury history.

Edmundson might not even be worth one first, and you guys think he's going to get you two?

NO,NO,NO. Please don't confuse him with us guys. I would believe that all but ONE^ think he's worth 2 -1st which is absurd. No one is going near him till he prove himself. This is a deadline deal so He may get a 1st.
Who really knows?
PS -Him not us -singular -not you guys.

 

[Rob Sense]

Nonsense. Until he’s a rental, deals with term on low level player like this have no value. next trade deadline…. He may return something like a protected first from a contender.

Toffoli?

 

[ole ole]

yea it's probably the best play for the habs considering the state of their blueline.

in terms of value i can't see him getting more of a return. he's a depth defender making $3.5m with term, has a partial ntc and also has major injury concerns.

Ya The poor state of our blueline, We traded Romanov and still haven't missed a beat. Well it break down some as the season goes on. Sure but we have 4 rookies in that lineup. What there doing is showing the state of our blueline is nothing we are worried about. Just the opposite.

 

[dirtydanglez]

Ya The poor state of our blueline, We traded Romanov and still haven't missed a beat. Well it break down some as the season goes on. Sure but we have 4 rookies in that lineup. What there doing is showing the state of our blueline is nothing we are worried about. Just the opposite.

this is going to age like milk

 

[calder candidate]

Oiler fan here. I like Edmundson a fair bit going back to his Dub junior days. High character, physical and aggressive d-man who can play 18-20 minutes fits very well to the Oilers primary need. He's got solid deep playoff experience which is a nice intangible.

The issue is health. He's missed much of last year and recurrence of a major injury is a real concern. This is a player who will have to show the injury issue is behind him to establish the trade market and value. There's likely salary retention required with a deal to any contender and the salary next year is both a positive in having a second pair defender for two prospective playoff runs but a potential issue if the injury issues continue to be a problem.

He's a player I think the Oilers could (and should) have interest in, imo. The trade value comes into focus once Edmundson proves himself healthy with a sustained regular season back in the line-up and not on the trainer's table.

I think the injury situation is a bit overblown He had 1 season with 1 significant injury + personal time with the passing of is father… If MTL had been in playoff contention he would have been on the ice, a lot sooner, the pain thresholds (like moral) was a pretty lower last year in MTL.

 

[HockeyVirus]

I'd move a first for Edmundson @ 50%. That price he is a good bottom pairing dman at worse. If he can play hard minutes in the top 4 that is even better. Him and Gio on defense would give the Leafs some grit back there which they need.