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Proposal: Joel Edmundson to Oilers

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SwedishFire said:
Well, a #4D isnt going to net a 1st rounder to begin with, but thats already being sorted out in this thread.
And that Edmundson you are talking about was before injury, and he isnt that now. So.... what to do now...

A slow defender wasnt a big deal before. Then being mean and physichal was all you needed. But now.

Deep analysis of todays NHL game : Slow defender in todays NHL sounds just sad. And thats also a hit to the sport. Speed cant be all, that destroys the diversity in the sport. hockey is great because all the elemnt was in it, but that seems to redeem. To bad. Anyways...
I can give you pulju + 2nd for Edmundson + 3rd. Pick swap
Click to expand...

If there is no retention maybe 2nd and Pulju isn’t crazy if you think Pulju can be a top 9 on a contending team but I don’t see why Mtl would do it since Pulju isn’t trending in the right direction might not even receive a QO and they have plenty of our own misfits and project Dadonov, Drouin, Hoffman…If that is the best offer MTL just wait to next year and take the best offer and considering that even depth and #7 guy go for 3rd or 4th habs have nothing to lose, the teams that have something to lose are the team that are on the clock with there cup window closing or prime years of there superstars approaching.
Team trading for Edmundson aren’t doing MTL a favor, MTL is definitely aiming for a late 1st (protected) or equivalent Mtl might even add, retain or take a Cap dump to make it happen.
 
Fourier said:
There seems to be a narrative that the going rate for a guy like Edmundson has been a 1st for quite some time. I looked back to 2012 to see which defensemen were dealt in trades involving 1st's. While I may have missed someone here is what I found:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]2022[/TD]
[TD]Romanov+4th[/TD]
[TD]Lindholm[/TD]
[TD]Chariot[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2021​
[/TD]

[TD]OEL[/TD]
[TD]Ristolainen[/TD]
[TD]Savard[/TD]
[TD]Jones[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2020​
[/TD]

[TD]Karlsson[/TD]
[TD]Skjei[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2019​
[/TD]

[TD]Trouba[/TD]
[TD]Muzzin[/TD]
[TD]Montour[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2018​
[/TD]

[TD]McDonagh with Miller[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2017​
[/TD]

[TD]Shattenkirk[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2016​
[/TD]

[TD]Yandle[/TD]
[TD]Sekera[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2015​
[/TD]

[TD]Hamilton[/TD]
[TD]Franson[/TD]
[TD]Coburn[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2014​
[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2013​
[/TD]

[TD]Bouwmeester[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2012​
[/TD]

[TD]Quincey[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

One interesting thing to note here is that many of these trades involve the Lightning! That said There is no significant evidence here to support a case for a 1st for Edmundson based on precedence.
Click to expand...
Well the one thing you’re not considering is cap hits.

Edmundson at 3.5M , sure that’s not getting a first. Edmundson at 1.75M, could be a different story. I am still not sure sure if he will, Hughes will have to work his magic and catch a desperate team.

Also, let’s be serious, everyone said chiarot sucked last year. Don’t make it seem as if he’s so much better than Edmundson. Especially when signed for another year.
Chiarot also returned more than a 1st (prospect and another 4th)
 
NewEraGM said:
Well the one thing you’re not considering is cap hits.

Edmundson at 3.5M , sure that’s not getting a first. Edmundson at 1.75M, could be a different story. I am still not sure sure if he will, Hughes will have to work his magic and catch a desperate team.

Also, let’s be serious, everyone said chiarot sucked last year. Don’t make it seem as if he’s so much better than Edmundson. Especially when signed for another year.
Chiarot also returned more than a 1st (prospect and another 4th)
Click to expand...
Its not a good thing having that extra year on Edmundsons deal with the cap only going up a million this summer
 
Stealth JD said:
Holy cow. Montreal fans are in a full-court press, trying to push this guy onto the next unsuspecting buyer. Talk about an aggressive sales pitch.
Edmundson was routinely benched on the Blues Cup run, and has had recurring back issues since 2018. The guy is blood and guts, but any team conned into paying a 1st for him deserves to be severly disappointed.
Click to expand...
That was 3-4 years ago…that’s completely irrelevant now.

This is the exact same conversation that we all had of chiarot. Habs fans said he would get a first. Others said no way they would be lucky to get a 3rd. What happened? He got a first….
This is same thing.

Homesick said:
Its not a good thing having that extra year on Edmundsons deal with the cap only going up a million this summer
Click to expand...
When’s it’s only 1.7M, it is yes. Because he would have to be replaced by a 3M dollar player. It’s cap certainty

It most definitely is a good thing
 
NewEraGM said:
Well the one thing you’re not considering is cap hits.

Edmundson at 3.5M , sure that’s not getting a first. Edmundson at 1.75M, could be a different story. I am still not sure sure if he will, Hughes will have to work his magic and catch a desperate team.

Also, let’s be serious, everyone said chiarot sucked last year. Don’t make it seem as if he’s so much better than Edmundson. Especially when signed for another year.
Chiarot also returned more than a 1st (prospect and another 4th)
Click to expand...
I was not responding to any claim about cap hits. Just a rather frequently stated opinion that the going rate for #4Dmen is a first. It's actual quite rare for a defenseman to return a first and when they do its' typically a guy with higher end offense.

At 50% retained Edmundson may well get a 1st. But I don't think that is as likely to happen as many here seem to think. Even though Montreal has both the space and resources to do this, teams don't retain on multi-year deals all that often.

Broberg's play of late complicates things. If he continues to play well he will be in the line-up. So you are paying a first to replace Kulak with Edmundson. Even at the lower cap hit I don't see that as enough of an upgrade to justify using one of the team's best trade chips.
 
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I don't think Montreal will get a 1st for him due to his recent injury history, but I don't know why the idea is being treated like some insane idea from Habs homers. How many deadlines and free agency periods will we need to see NHL GMs overpay for veteran physical DFDs with size before it sinks in that GMs value these players very differently than we do as online fans?

That's not me appealing to authority and arguing that GMs are seeing some secret magical quality that we don't either, it's just looking at the market as it exists and recognizing that GMs value these players more than we do online. GMs love these kinds of players and I don't understand why we have to pretend it's going to be different every year. I do think the injury risk probably means it won't be a 1st but it's going to end up being more than we think he's worth on HF.
 
Homesick said:
Its not a good thing having that extra year on Edmundsons deal with the cap only going up a million this summer
Click to expand...
How is the extra year not a good thing???
If it was 3 or more year it is easy to understand but who are you doing to find that is better and will make 1.75M$ this year and next especially if cap is only going up by 1M$?
 
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Fourier said:
There seems to be a narrative that the going rate for a guy like Edmundson has been a 1st for quite some time. I looked back to 2012 to see which defensemen were dealt in trades involving 1st's. While I may have missed someone here is what I found:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]2022[/TD]
[TD]Romanov+4th[/TD]
[TD]Lindholm[/TD]
[TD]Chariot[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2021​
[/TD]

[TD]OEL[/TD]
[TD]Ristolainen[/TD]
[TD]Savard[/TD]
[TD]Jones[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2020​
[/TD]

[TD]Karlsson[/TD]
[TD]Skjei[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2019​
[/TD]

[TD]Trouba[/TD]
[TD]Muzzin[/TD]
[TD]Montour[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2018​
[/TD]

[TD]McDonagh with Miller[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2017​
[/TD]

[TD]Shattenkirk[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2016​
[/TD]

[TD]Yandle[/TD]
[TD]Sekera[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2015​
[/TD]

[TD]Hamilton[/TD]
[TD]Franson[/TD]
[TD]Coburn[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2014​
[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2013​
[/TD]

[TD]Bouwmeester[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
2012​
[/TD]

[TD]Quincey[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

One interesting thing to note here is that many of these trades involve the Lightning! That said There is no significant evidence here to support a case for a 1st for Edmundson based on precedence.
Click to expand...
Chiarot, Ristolainen, Savard, Franson, Coburn, Quincey those a all D pretty much in the same tier maybe even could add Skjei, Montour, Shatt, Yandle and Sekera which are in the also in the 2pairing D tier but with completely different skill set.

I think there a is pretty strong to history to support that he could be worth a 1st since most of these guy when for more than juste a 1st,1st ++ and were pure rental. Also when you are looking at comparable for #4 guys you also have to look at all the #5 to 7 guy that were traded and when a bottom pairring is worth a somewhere between a 4th to 2nd +, it is only more evidence that a #4 guy like Edmondson with 50% retention and term is closer to a 1st.

The closest comparable I think would be Marco Scandella (better than most #5D but wasn't a #3) and he got traded 2nd+4th as a rental at the TDL, and that was shortly (2month) after being dealt for a 4th as a cap dump... Edmundson never reach those kind of low that Scandella had in is career and the cap is now a even bigger factor. So to me the base value is with 50% retain is probably 2x2nd

People can say that GM are crazy but there is a different one every year and you only need one and if there is a team it is because there is another will to make the exact same for just a hair less.

MTL GM already say that is objective was to add another 1st rd pick.
I agree that is value isn't a 1st but it is pretty close to a late 1st if there is more than 1 team trying to acquire and other seller aren't giving any discount, a 1st isn't that big of a strentch and even if there isn't a team that flinch, Montreal have enough assets or flexibility to try to massage a deal for a 1st, if that is what they want

Edmundson at 1.75M$
+3rd - 5th rd pick
+ prospect like Struble, Ylonen, Mysak
+taking on 3M$ cap hit (2 years max)
+ Mtl to give a pick for a 3rd team to retain or take a cap dump

Mtl doesn't have to trade him so if he is move it will only be because someone overpaid so a 1st or a some kind of equivalent prospect or pick package, eveyone will say that they over paid and they will be right because that is the only way to get the deal done..., KH will just set is price and he won't move and call everyone bluff, since he doesn't have anything to lose and that the best and only way to extract the most value.

In term of cost in latest trade
Chiarot >> Savard>Giordano >>> Kulak

so if he is traded the value of the return will be less than Savard more than Kulak (2nd+7th) probably closer to Giordano (3x2nd)...
 
Neutral fan:

Poolparty / Edmunson swap seems pretty fair.

Habs get a young asset who can maybe find some magic from St. Loius and turn his game around. He's already done a lot with the other young forwards there. Poolparty is still very young and would fit a nice age for rebuilding team.

Edmonton get a mediocre dman who can PK and be a fake tough guy. Not much of a return on Poolparty but helps a little win now.

I don't think an add is needed on either side.
 
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Stickpucker said:
Neutral fan:

Poolparty / Edmunson swap seems pretty fair.

Habs get a young asset who can maybe find some magic from St. Loius and turn his game around. He's already done a lot with the other young forwards there. Poolparty is still very young and would fit a nice age for rebuilding team.

Edmonton get a mediocre dman who can PK and be a fake tough guy. Not much of a return on Poolparty but helps a little win now.

I don't think an add is needed on either side.
Click to expand...
Mediocre Dman who can PK… seem like the kind guy EDM need to keep the puck out of the net in the last minute of the games… You don’t have to do MTL any favor you can keep Poolparty…

Mediocre D… what would you call Ceci, Barrie and Kulak?
 
calder candidate said:
Mediocre Dman who can PK… seem like the kind guy EDM need to keep the puck out of the net in the last minute of the games… You don’t have to do MTL any favor you can keep Poolparty…

Mediocre D… what would you call Ceci, Barrie and Kulak?
Click to expand...
Ceci and Barrie are far better than Edmundson.

Kulak we can include in the same tier. He's a bottom pair guy too. So mediocre is probably a fair description.
 
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Spector was on Marek show today, said Oilers very interested in Edmunston. They want big heavy defenseman play behind Nurse. Puljujarvi has to go other way. His days in Edmonton are numbered.

Spector said rumours of Chrychun going to Oilers are bogus. Oilers not interested in him. He said Oilers interested in 4th line center also.

I purpose Edmunston and Dvorak for Puljujarvi, Oilers first in '24, 2nd in '23 and 2nd in '25?
 
Last edited:
Holl and 2023 1st for Edmonston 50% retained.

Rielly-Brodie
Girodano-Edmonston
Muzzin/Sandin-Lilijgren
 
Scorey Perry said:
Spector was on Marek show today, said Oilers very interested in Edmunston. They want big heavy defenseman play behind Nurse. Puljujarvi has to go other way. His days in Edmonton are numbered.

Spector said rumours of Chrychun going to Oilers are bogus. Oilers not interested in him. He said Oilers interested in 4th line center also.

I purpose Edmunston and Dvorak for Puljujarvi, Lucic, Oilers first in '24, 2nd in '23 and 2nd in '25?
Click to expand...
Did I miss something… isn’t Lucic in Calgary…
 
Unbiased Fan said:
Holl and 2023 1st for Edmonston 50% retained.

Rielly-Brodie
Girodano-Edmonston
Muzzin/Sandin-Lilijgren
Click to expand...
Why would Toronto move Holl, don’t they need all the D depth they can get would it be better to move Engvall or Kerfoot to clear cap instead…

But I think that is the kind of deal Mtl is looking for maybe add a pick depending on how big is the cap dump.

Edmundson 50% retain
For
1st 2023
+ player to create more cap space
 
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Scorey Perry said:
Spector was on Marek show today, said Oilers very interested in Edmunston. They want big heavy defenseman play behind Nurse. Puljujarvi has to go other way. His days in Edmonton are numbered.

Spector said rumours of Chrychun going to Oilers are bogus. Oilers not interested in him. He said Oilers interested in 4th line center also.

I purpose Edmunston and Dvorak for Puljujarvi, Oilers first in '24, 2nd in '23 and 2nd in '25?
Click to expand...
And how does Edmonton fit that under the cap?
 
Scorey Perry said:
Spector was on Marek show today, said Oilers very interested in Edmunston. They want big heavy defenseman play behind Nurse. Puljujarvi has to go other way. His days in Edmonton are numbered.

Spector said rumours of Chrychun going to Oilers are bogus. Oilers not interested in him. He said Oilers interested in 4th line center also.

I purpose Edmunston and Dvorak for Puljujarvi, Oilers first in '24, 2nd in '23 and 2nd in '25?
Click to expand...
See in the national hockey league there’s this thing called the salary cap, which is a monetary number that all teams must operate beneath.

This information should help you make realistic proposals in the future.


Also Spector knows nothing about the Oilers, the organization hates him and has actively frozen him out since McDavid scolded him like a little child. He gets nothing now from the organization he’s supposed to be SN’s best writer for, so he spends his time making things up and trying to push false narratives about players. Likely any information he has has been fed purposely fed to him to make him look foolish.
 
Last edited:
Scorey Perry said:
I purpose Edmunston and Dvorak for Puljujarvi, Oilers first in '24, 2nd in '23 and 2nd in '25?
Click to expand...
For this to work Cap-wise, Montreal would have to retain 50% for both, and EDM send down someone on an ELC.
Value isn't bad for Montreal but with that much retention for that long, it should be higher. And I can see how that might get too steep for EDM. I'm also not sure Dvorak is a fit for their style.

Edmundson retained at 50%, maybe with a depth prospect from the Bergevin days (who current management isn't as sold on... Mysak, Norlinder?) for Puljujarvi and a 1st or Bourgault. From a cap POV, this should mean EDM can still add/upgrade another skater at the deadline.
 
Scorey Perry said:
Spector was on Marek show today, said Oilers very interested in Edmunston. They want big heavy defenseman play behind Nurse. Puljujarvi has to go other way. His days in Edmonton are numbered.

Spector said rumours of Chrychun going to Oilers are bogus. Oilers not interested in him. He said Oilers interested in 4th line center also.

I purpose Edmunston and Dvorak for Puljujarvi, Oilers first in '24, 2nd in '23 and 2nd in '25?
Click to expand...
Salary cap says what? That's like, 8 million in cap going to Edmonton, unless the Habs are retaining on both deals. Plus you're still asking for the 1st with no players worth that involved.

I'm also not confident that Dvorak is the centre we want. We'll be after a defensively sound, physical 4th line centre - ideally one who can kill penalties. That isn't Dvorak.

I wouldn't pay that price for Edmundson at 50%. Holland might be, but...ugh. It won't be Bourgault though.
 
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