Proposal: Joel Edmundson to Oilers

[calder candidate]

1ST I'm a Hab fan.
2ND . If i'm being honest with myself i don't believe that Eddy ends up getting a 1st.
So that moves it back to a 2nd minimum.
Puljujarvi contract is up at the end of the season so really not a cap dump.

Puljujarvi for a late 2nd. Ya i'd take the risk.


I think Savard would be more of an interest to contending teams.

Edmundson isn’t getting a 1st but Kulak and Lyubushkin got 2nd has rental I can’t see why Edmundson would get the same especially with some terms and retention… People are getting hung up on a 1st (I think that is the starting price) but it might end up being 1st round equivalent value it could be prospect + pick or multiple 2nd pick…
A few teams that will offer similar package like 2x2nd + 4th in the end teams will know it is a toss up with multiple team with similar at offer, a team will offer a prospect that MTL like more or 1st to seal the deal and if there isn’t a team that moves KH will either take the one he like to most or just not move him because MTL have the advantage of not having to move him especially with the rookie starting to slow down.

Savard could also be available he won’t be any cheaper he would be significantly more expensive even if he is in the same tier since he is from French for Qc (which is a thing in MTL) he play the right side, MTL only have 2 RD (not counting wideman who is a fringe NHL D) he also has 3 years left. Edmundson is available because Mtl is rebuilding and have 3 LD under 22 playing in the NHL with Matheson lock up for 4 years.

 

[Tairy Greene]

He might help them a little but Edmonton needs someone a bit better than this guy. Instead of wasting a 2nd or whatever they should just bite the bullet and put a package together for Chychrun or Gavrikov. Their defense is fully healthy and still bleeds chances every night, it's probably the worst defense of a playoff team I can only imagine if Nurse or Ceci got injured.

 

[Draft]

A 1st for this guy? Have fun.

View attachment 617279

This is a chart for Erik Gudbranson...

 

[Guttersniped]

The thing is that there aren’t that many team that have 4 D better than Edmundson, the issue is that he had zero flash to is game. He isn’t a fringe player being trust on a role on a bad team or being carried or a passenger on a team having playoff success. He is a top 4 D playing on a bad team right now and was a top 4 playing on good team. Your thinking of player like Schenn, Kulak playing 10min on cup team and now playing 17min on weaker D, those are 3rd pairing D being put in bigger role because of how weak the D is and would have a smaller role on a better team.
Edmundson can handle playing 20min a game he has done so successfully on winning team, he would be in the top 4 or in the conversation on a lot of team.

Looking at the top teams in the league and the #4 D I think if Edmundson were to magically appear on there roster he would probably beat out 3 of the 4 for that 4th spot.
BOS #4 Forbort
VGK #4 Whitecloud
TOR #4 Sandin or Holl
NJ #4 Graves

EDM like TOR are team with lot of fire power, cap contraintes, soft or weak D and a good window in the next 2 years with there star player. They need some big tough D that can play be reliable to play lot of hard minute and PK. Edmundson should be the exact type of player they are looking to add now for the next 2 playoff. Not everyone might agree on the price and if there are better and less expensive options than teams will turn to those player… considering that recent trade history of D at the TDL and all the comparable I don’t think a late 1st is that big of a stretch for a player with 2 years left.

“Looking at the top teams in the league and the #4 D I think if Edmundson were to magically appear on there roster he would probably beat out 3 of the 4 for that 4th spot.
BOS #4 Forbort
VGK #4 Whitecloud
TOR #4 Sandin or Holl
NJ #4 Graves”

He’s not beating out Graves for a spot in NJ’s top 4.

He’s not beating out Whitecloud and he’s RHD anyway. The top two LHD on Vegas is Martinez and McNabb (and he’s not beating them out either.)

Edmundson has a 3.5m cap hit and 2 years left on his deal. Sandin is 2 years/1.4m, his cap hit is 40% of Edmundson’s. Not sure how a much more expensive defenseman is a plus for Toronto next season. (Not sure he’s better either.)

Forbort is 2 years/3m and definitely a weak spot (comparatively, for them) in Boston’s deep line-up. Ok?

 

[calder candidate]

You make a number of good points, but there is something that needs a bit of support. As I mentioned, the eye-test when I've seen him has not been good. The analytics from a couple of seasons ago were awful. Have the analytics improved? Are the occasions I've seen him an anomaly?

That is all I have to go on, and nobody has made a compelling argument to the contrary other than to say he plays top 4 minutes along with vague descriptors.

Hopefully he defends in hockey more effectively than posters have been defending his value.

What analytics would convince you? Hockey is such a fluid and team game there aren’t that many stats that can predict outcome, especially when for moving between team it can be good to determine what has happen not so much for what will happen… it is a fact that Edmundson is equivalent or better that Dman that were moved is recent TDL (considering that have seen all of Mtl and most of Toronto game I seen lots of the player that have been have moved recently TDL for over multiple years) and we know what the return was for those guys, so…
anyway not sure there anything I can change your mind so not sure why I would to put any effort… why don’t you pull up the all the stats on the top 4 in the NHL you are and flesh out you evaluation for all the time that you have watch him play to justify you reject of other people evaluation or Why don’t you me what the return for Edmundson should be or how it should stack up vs. other trade that were made?

My evaluation is that considering that all these trade were for basically to be UFA, equivalent or lesser player, older or player without Eddy track record
Edmundson with 50% will get a 1st which would be less than Chiarot, Muzzin and Savard, similar to Giodano and not much more than Kulak and Lyubushkin.
And if he isn’t getting a actual 1st it will by equivalent value so it might be multiple picks or combination of prospect and picks…

Savard late 1st+3rd+4th
Chiarot 1st (unprotected) + prospect +4th
Kulak 2nd+7th+ warm body
Lyubushkin + player for player + 3rd or 2nd in the following season ( wonder what Arizona will pick…)
Giodano 3x2nd (he had a NTC which could affect is trade value)
Muzzin 1st + 2 prospects
Depth D getting 3rd and 4th…
You also have middle 6 that were traded for significant value

 

[calder candidate]

“Looking at the top teams in the league and the #4 D I think if Edmundson were to magically appear on there roster he would probably beat out 3 of the 4 for that 4th spot.
BOS #4 Forbort
VGK #4 Whitecloud
TOR #4 Sandin or Holl
NJ #4 Graves”

He’s not beating out Graves for a spot in NJ’s top 4.

He’s not beating out Whitecloud and he’s RHD anyway. The top two LHD on Vegas is Martinez and McNabb (and he’s not beating them out either.)

Edmundson has a 3.5m cap hit and 2 years left on his deal. Sandin is 2 years/1.4m, his cap hit is 40% of Edmundson’s. Not sure how a much more expensive defenseman is a plus for Toronto next season. (Not sure he’s better either.)

Forbort is 2 years/3m and definitely a weak spot (comparatively, for them) in Boston’s deep line-up. Ok?

I agree he isn’t beating Graves (I said 3 out of 4) but the reste aren’t so clear cut Edmundson (who can play RD) at 1.75$ Likely push down Sandin (soft as butter compared to Eddy when playoff time come around), McNabb and Forbort down the line lineup not saying that any would trade for him just making the point that it isn’t because Mtl is a weak team that Edmundson can’t play on a top team if he can play on BOS top 4 can see why he could not be on TOR or EDM especially since he bring something that other D can’t bring…

 

[Guttersniped]

I agree he isn’t beating Graves (I said 3 out of 4) but the reste aren’t so clear cut Edmundson (who can play RD) at 1.75$ Likely push down Sandin (soft as butter compared to Eddy when playoff time come around), McNabb and Forbort down the line lineup not saying that any would trade for him just making the point that it isn’t because Mtl is a weak team that Edmundson can’t play on a top team if he can play on BOS top 4 can see why he could not be on TOR or EDM especially since he bring something that other D can’t bring…

Vegas has Theodore and Pietrangelo on the right, they’re pretty damn deep on defense.

You say 1.75m but teams typically don’t retain half a player’s salary if they still have term. Yeah, that would add some value but I don’t know if it would actually happen. (I can’t say it won’t happen either, but I’m skeptical unless we hear the team is actually interested in doing that.)

Edmundson certainly will get traded somewhere and get a pretty good return, experienced defenseman typically do. I might not be disagreeing with you on this main point, the details threw me. Probably not a 1st.

 

[calder candidate]

You say 1.75m but teams typically don’t retain half a player’s salary if they still have term. Yeah, that would add some value but I don’t know if it would actually happen. (I can’t say it won’t happen either, but I’m skeptical unless we hear the team is actually interested in doing that.)

He has 1 year left, if he is traded next year they will retain anyway… MTL can easily retain this years and cap won’t be a issue this year or next if they don’t than I agree that his value would be less, but even if they don’t retain they probably take a contract back to make it work or optimize the return.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Eddy isn't going anywhere. Not until management has a better idea of where our 4 young D are headed.

The only way Eddy is traded is if Baron is ready for the big show and that's not the case yet.
Or Habs get an offer than can't refuse for him at the TDL.

Trading Eddy without getting a serviceable D back weakens our D core considerably.

In a draft where Bedard exists that would be a good thing

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think Savard would be more of an interest to contending teams.

Possible but I think we keep the RD during our rebuild. Maybe we consider it for the 2024 or 2025 deadline but other teams can feel free to offer something for him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

And I’m sure the panthers are now regretting it unprotected and they might not make playoffs.

Yes, it happens. Panthers are the dumb ones trading a premium for Chiarot where he was playing 23-25 min a game and then played him 15 min a game in the playoffs. Giroux didn't turn the needle as much as they would like as well.

Worked for the Avs though with Manson and Lehkonen.

Habs have little incentive to trade Edmundson for cheap when he has one extra year in term. Don't like the price but you want improvements? Call someone else and they tell you the same thing. If the shoe was on the other foot, you would do the same thing

 

[Big Muddy]

Its Edmonton's turn now I guess.

 

[ManofSteel55]

You think GMs that are on the spot like Dubas/Holland will care about the 2023 draft strenght when the trade deadline comes and they need a top 4 D?

And I'm not even talking about the teams with aging cores like Boston/Pittsburgh/Washington that are going all in for a last time...

MANY 2023 1st will be traded. It is going to be a sellers market IMO.

Edmundson, if healthy and available, will 100% bring back a 2023 1st. I expect a Muzzin-like return (1st + prospects).

Yes I do, that's their job. To look at all sides of it. I also think they will be able to look at the market, see that there are a half dozen or so defensemen available, and that the guys wanting picks for those would rather take a 2nd or 3rd than nothing. If Montreal would rather try for that first with Edmundson next year, that's fair.

 

[ManofSteel55]

You sound like all the doubters last deadline. Didn’t learn your lesson?? Smilanec and a 4th is still a +. Its value.

Health is the only concern with Ed.

GM's make bad deals every deadline. Can we agree that if Edmundson gets a 1st rounder for the Habs, then the other team overpaid to get him? I mean, if we can agree on that, it's kind of meeting in the middle. The Habs fans want their 1st, and everyone else thinks that's a massive overpay. If we can agree that he might get a first because GM's can be stupid at the deadline, and that if that did happen it would be a massive overpay, I think that's fair.

 

[ginovegas]

Hutson is a RHD.

Hutsonn is left. Barron and Mailloux are right

 

[Habs Halifax]

Vegas has Theodore and Pietrangelo on the right, they’re pretty damn deep on defense.

You say 1.75m but teams typically don’t retain half a player’s salary if they still have term. Yeah, that would add some value but I don’t know if it would actually happen. (I can’t say it won’t happen either, but I’m skeptical unless we hear the team is actually interested in doing that.)

Edmundson certainly will get traded somewhere and get a pretty good return, experienced defenseman typically do. I might not be disagreeing with you on this main point, the details threw me. Probably not a 1st.

In Edmundson's case, we can retain 50% for the rest of this season and the entire next season. $1.75M won't hurt us next year. Habs cap space opens up by a fair amount after next year. After Caufield and Harris are signed, we have a 20 man roster and around $10M - $14M in cap space with Price on LTIR (again).

$1.75M is something will carry if we get the return we want. You're not wrong that retaining with term is a tricky thing to manage and most teams avoid it but it don't apply in Edmundson's case.

 

[Habs Halifax]

GM's make bad deals every deadline. Can we agree that if Edmundson gets a 1st rounder for the Habs, then the other team overpaid to get him? I mean, if we can agree on that, it's kind of meeting in the middle. The Habs fans want their 1st, and everyone else thinks that's a massive overpay. If we can agree that he might get a first because GM's can be stupid at the deadline, and that if that did happen it would be a massive overpay, I think that's fair.

It's called market value. Market value in the summer may not be the same at a trade deadline.

Players who teams don't line up for end up getting traded for cheap. Players who are sought after by several teams end up getting better returns. Pretty simple and it's about supply/demand and teams wanting to give their team the best change they can for a deep playoff run.

Last season was very aggressive in terms of it being a sellers market. This is fresh in the minds of all GM's. So maybe, this year more GM's steer clear of it. It's very difficult to predict.

 

[Stickpucker]

I saw this guy play a lot and he was a bottom pair fake tough guy who was not a great skater who can go out on PK2. How is he magically worth a 1st?

Did he magically get lot better last season?

From my viewings he's worth a 3rd maybe 3rd +4th.

Super desperate team with injury might give up a 2nd + low tier prospect.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

GM's make bad deals every deadline. Can we agree that if Edmundson gets a 1st rounder for the Habs, then the other team overpaid to get him? I mean, if we can agree on that, it's kind of meeting in the middle. The Habs fans want their 1st, and everyone else thinks that's a massive overpay. If we can agree that he might get a first because GM's can be stupid at the deadline, and that if that did happen it would be a massive overpay, I think that's fair.

Overpaying is the common theme at TDL. Its kinda expected now.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Overpaying is the common theme at TDL. Its kinda expected now.

Overpaying is common. Bad trades have always been common at the TDL. That doesn't mean every 2nd pair defenseman is going for a 1st though.

 

[calder candidate]

GM's make bad deals every deadline. Can we agree that if Edmundson gets a 1st rounder for the Habs, then the other team overpaid to get him? I mean, if we can agree on that, it's kind of meeting in the middle. The Habs fans want their 1st, and everyone else thinks that's a massive overpay. If we can agree that he might get a first because GM's can be stupid at the deadline, and that if that did happen it would be a massive overpay, I think that's fair.

I agree that a 1st is over payment but you are getting 2 years winning a cup is very hard if you are spending asset 2 shots is a lot smarter. A contending will likely be contending next year but that late 1st won’t be any help for that cup window and if your #4 D is a issue now it will also be a issue next years…
Edmundson is proven to be able to play 20min, check all the boxe you want for the playoffs. Also by acquiring him you remove a option for your opponent to improve there D, maybe they have to over pay for a lesser player…
He has term but only 1 year so cap won’t ever be a issue even without retention but with 50% it is very good value.

What will it cost get a similar player or a guy that might be similar but has never proved it… What will it cost the following years. What will it cost to sign a UFA that check those boxes and how will that look on the cap…

I think that right now there are a lot of team Looking to offering 2x2nd +4th type value which is pretty close to a late 1st in term of value anyway so has the TDL come one team knowing that every team has similar offer will make a move to increase is offer making 1st or a prospect that MTL want + pick. If no one move that MTL just doesn’t make the trade because they will get a 2nd +4th next year and that where the value is for MTL is it better whole out to try to get 1st this year and risk losing a 2nd than it is to take the jump on a lesser deal.
The might also be a contract coming the other way to help that team clear space to make other moves, even if there is a 1st involved some of that value is for the 2nd years / retention/ or contract going the other way.

 

[ole ole]

Edmundson isn’t getting a 1st but Kulak and Lyubushkin got 2nd has rental I can’t see why Edmundson would get the same especially with some terms and retention… People are getting hung up on a 1st (I think that is the starting price) but it might end up being 1st round equivalent value it could be prospect + pick or multiple 2nd pick…
A few teams that will offer similar package like 2x2nd + 4th in the end teams will know it is a toss up with multiple team with similar at offer, a team will offer a prospect that MTL like more or 1st to seal the deal and if there isn’t a team that moves KH will either take the one he like to most or just not move him because MTL have the advantage of not having to move him especially with the rookie starting to slow down.

Savard could also be available he won’t be any cheaper he would be significantly more expensive even if he is in the same tier since he is from French for Qc (which is a thing in MTL) he play the right side, MTL only have 2 RD (not counting wideman who is a fringe NHL D) he also has 3 years left. Edmundson is available because Mtl is rebuilding and have 3 LD under 22 playing in the NHL with Matheson lock up for 4 years.

Ya if we can get 2- 2nds than sure i take that over Pulj .I didn't realize how bad Pulj was doing.
Article below.

Ken Holland inspires zero confidence with take on Jesse Puljujärvi

The situation appears hopeless.

www.hockeyfeed.com

 

[Rob Sense]

I saw this guy play a lot and he was a bottom pair fake tough guy who was not a great skater who can go out on PK2. How is he magically worth a 1st?

Did he magically get lot better last season?

From my viewings he's worth a 3rd maybe 3rd +4th.

Super desperate team with injury might give up a 2nd + low tier prospect.

this will not age well.

 

[spaghtti]

Eddy must have heard chatter about the possibility of him going to the Oilers and he decided to make sure it doesn't happen by trying to take the Head off one of their players last game.

That's very possible, he could have heard the crap offer Habs fans were making trying to oversell him and he decided to do the Oilers a favor

 

[SwedishFire]

2023 1st, top 10 protected.

I _HATE_ when other tesms make a thread with a team gets one of their players. It just feels forced on us, and desperate. It really feels like Edmundson is a dump.

So that sinks the value a lot.

Edmundson for a 2nd + Puljujärvi.
A 2nd ks the best youbwill get for him.
And we give you Puljujärvi as a penalty for stupid threadstart without thinking it through.