Player Discussion Joel Armia turnaround year?

[Habs Halifax]

The Habs and Habs fan have a tendency to overrate serviceable players and then they wonder why all of a sudden expectations aren't met. (Danault, Armia, Moen, Bouillon, Dandenault, etc.)

Armia is a bottom liner, or a 8th or 9th forward if you have a really good 3rd line player (Danault would be that guy.)

If he's in your top 6, or if he's the best player on your third line, or even used on an offensive third line, he's going to fall short, very short.

First you say he is a bottom 6F then you say bottom liner. You have a tendency to underrate serviceable players like Danault and Armia. They are middle 6 guys, not bottom 6. Honestly, I don't care about the top 6 vs bottom 6 narrative. I care more about team depth and how they fit together.

Armia does not suck! Keep dreaming and lowering your bar to justify a weak point

 

[Mrb1p]

First you say he is a bottom 6F then you say bottom liner. You have a tendency to underrate serviceable players like Danault and Armia. They are middle 6 guys, not bottom 6. Honestly, I don't care about the top 6 vs bottom 6 narrative. I care more about team depth and how they fit together.

Armia does not suck! Keep dreaming and lowering your bar to justify a weak point

I just explained what I meant.

He's a bottom six forward but for him to be effective on a third line he needs to
A) Be on a defensive line
B) Be the 3rd best forward on his line

When youre a conditional player on a line, youre not at this level.

Same as Danault, but obviously Danault is 2/3 line, for similar reasons.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I just explained what I meant.

He's a bottom six forward but for him to be effective on a third line he needs to
A) Be on a defensive line
B) Be the 3rd best forward on his line

When youre a conditional player on a line, youre not at this level.

Same as Danault, but obviously Danault is 2/3 line, for similar reasons.

Sure but they don't suck. Fringe core parts around the edges yes.

 

[TannedBum]

Nice to have both of them on the roster don't you think? What's your narrative?

My narrative is we gave up way too much to acquire Anderson, and on the top of that we gave him contract that could become very problematic very fast. Toffoli is far better player with an astronomically better contract. We didn't need them both to cover the right side. We have needs elsewehere too. If those assets were directed to upgrade our D and without moronic 7 years marriage-contracts we would have more complete and less stressful package.

 

[Habs Halifax]

My narrative is we gave up way too much to acquire Anderson, and on the top of that we gave him contract that could become very problematic very fast. Toffoli is far better player with an astronomically better contract. We didn't need them both to cover the right side. We have needs elsewehere too. If those assets were directed to upgrade our D and without moronic 7 years marriage-contracts we would have more complete and less stressful package.

- Skill/Smaller type player vs Power Forward/Goal Scoring Power. Gave up "way too much"? That exaggeration. Sorry bud if you have to use exaggeration to prove a point, you don't have a good point. We overpaid to a degree yes. That's fair. However, we can't accurately predict the future for both Domi and Anderson in their prime years.

- Could become problematic very fast? How so? If he puts up 30 pts and 10 goals for the entire 7 years? Come on man. It's $5.5M AAV for a legit power forward with 40-50 pts and 20-30 goal scoring power. You mean it could become problematic like Domi vs his 1st season with us vs his 2nd? The only concern is his shoulder and if he is healthy, $5.5M for a legit power forward is a steal. You are thinking point production too much on this one

Are you saying we didn't need Anderson cause we have Armia? . We need both of them bud. Come on man. I like Armia a lot (just like you do) but Anderson is worth more than Armia

 

[Vachon23]

The Habs and Habs fan have a tendency to overrate serviceable players and then they wonder why all of a sudden expectations aren't met. (Danault, Armia, Moen, Bouillon, Dandenault, etc.)

Armia is a bottom liner, or a 8th or 9th forward if you have a really good 3rd line player (Danault would be that guy.)

If he's in your top 6, or if he's the best player on your third line, or even used on an offensive third line, he's going to fall short, very short.

Hey don't speak against Dandy !

 

[Vachon23]

Sure but they don't suck. Fringe core parts around the edges yes.

He never said that he suck. He only said that Armia is not a core player but a serviable player and he's 100 % right

 

[Habs Halifax]

He never said that he suck. He only said that Armia is not a core player but a serviable player and he's 100 % right

Follow the trail a bit more. Armia is a fringe core part around the edges. All teams need this. In fact, teams like the Oilers and Leafs lack pieces like this around their core.

Don't remember 100% but pretty sure he did say Armia was a 4th line player? Let me find it (See below). Armia to me is a middle 6 talent. 6-9 range. Could play 2nd, 3rd, or 4th line depending on team need. I value Armia and what he brings to the table for us

The Habs and Habs fan have a tendency to overrate serviceable players and then they wonder why all of a sudden expectations aren't met. (Danault, Armia, Moen, Bouillon, Dandenault, etc.)

Armia is a bottom liner, or a 8th or 9th forward if you have a really good 3rd line player (Danault would be that guy.)

If he's in your top 6, or if he's the best player on your third line, or even used on an offensive third line, he's going to fall short, very short.

 

[Mrb1p]

Follow the trail a bit more. Armia is a fringe core part around the edges. All teams need this. In fact, teams like the Oilers and Leafs lack pieces like this around their core.

Don't remember 100% but pretty sure he did say Armia was a 4th line player? Let me find it (See below). Armia to me is a middle 6 talent. 6-9 range. Could play 2nd, 3rd, or 4th line depending on team need. I value Armia and what he brings to the table for us

Find me a decent team with a guy like Armia in their top 6, Ill wait.

100% of them are either trying to upgrade if they do have them (Think of Boston prior to acquiring Kase)

Third line is more believable, especially with the top heavy teams like Colorado, Toronto but teams like the Habs with no superstar ? No, certainly not as a 6th-7th best forward.

But this is the habs conundrum. Having players play above their role somehow becomes normalized because they can't fill the upper slots. So we have Armia as the 4th best winger and we think it's fine and its how its supposed to be.

Sucks or not is semantics, relative to where the poster said he was, he sucks. He's not a top 6 forward.

Also can we stop commention on the middle six forward thing ? It just means the guy isn't good enough offensively to be a staple on the top lines, which means he's a bottom line forward.

 

[Montreals Forum]

I like what Armia brings, and our lineup is noticeably worse when hes not in it.
Guys like Moen, and Dandenault when used properly are great contributors to a team's cup chances.

I believe that we need upgrades, but in particular Armia is not the problem. I see him as part of a solution.
We DO have to get more consistent front line offense.
Our team has needed it since the late 90's. When we had Kovalev, it was the closest we had to it.
Now we have some great developing prospects, and good complimentary pieces.. but it needs to come together at the right time, and I would have loved to see Taylor Hall take a skate here.

The way I see it... Drouin needed to add more to his game. I expected more gamebreaker out of him.
I wouldnt be willing to move the centres, unless it's a great move for us. We simply have too much potential there to mess around too much with,

Toffoli and Anderson could be great adds as well. I will be reserved until I see it though.

Armia is perfectly fine as 3rd line rw, and his production is great for that role.

 

[Mrb1p]

I like what Armia brings, and our lineup is noticeably worse when hes not in it.
Guys like Moen, and Dandenault when used properly are great contributors to a team's cup chances.

I believe that we need upgrades, but in particular Armia is not the problem. I see him as part of a solution.
We DO have to get more consistent front line offense.
Our team has needed it since the late 90's. When we had Kovalev, it was the closest we had to it.
Now we have some great developing prospects, and good complimentary pieces.. but it needs to come together at the right time, and I would have loved to see Taylor Hall take a skate here.

The way I see it... Drouin needed to add more to his game. I expected more gamebreaker out of him.
I wouldnt be willing to move the centres, unless it's a great move for us. We simply have too much potential there to mess around too much with,

Toffoli and Anderson could be great adds as well. I will be reserved until I see it though.

Armia is perfectly fine as 3rd line rw, and his production is great for that role.

I don't agree that he's perfect for the third line, if the third line is either KK or Suzuki, these two need offensive wingers, Armia isn't that.

If it's Danault, I 100% agree, he could have a Moen to Pahlsson effect on Danault.

 

[Scriptor]

I don't agree that he's perfect for the third line, if the third line is either KK or Suzuki, these two need offensive wingers, Armia isn't that.

If it's Danault, I 100% agree, he could have a Moen to Pahlsson effect on Danault.

If the line was Toffoli - KK - Armia, we'd get second line production -- with Armia bringing a complementary puck possession dimension with a modicum of skill that goes beyond an energy player only -- from those three. The same could be argued if the line was Drouin - KK - Armia, with arms making more room for a more finesse player like Drouin.

Armia may not be a core player but, he can be a solid complementary player for a strong duo on his line.

 

[Vachon23]

Follow the trail a bit more. Armia is a fringe core part around the edges. All teams need this. In fact, teams like the Oilers and Leafs lack pieces like this around their core.

Don't remember 100% but pretty sure he did say Armia was a 4th line player? Let me find it (See below). Armia to me is a middle 6 talent. 6-9 range. Could play 2nd, 3rd, or 4th line depending on team need. I value Armia and what he brings to the table for us

That's what he said... a 8th or 9th forward

 

[Mrb1p]

If the line was Toffoli - KK - Armia, we'd get second line production -- with Armia bringing a complementary puck possession dimension with a modicum of skill that goes beyond an energy player only -- from those three. The same could be argued if the line was Drouin - KK - Armia, with arms making more room for a more finesse player like Drouin.

Armia may not be a core player but, he can be a solid complementary player for a strong duo on his line.

If Armias on KKs wing again Ill commit seppuku.

 

[cphabs]

- Skill/Smaller type player vs Power Forward/Goal Scoring Power. Gave up "way too much"? That exaggeration. Sorry bud if you have to use exaggeration to prove a point, you don't have a good point. We overpaid to a degree yes. That's fair. However, ...

Yes? LMFAO!

 

[TannedBum]

Okay, let's stop this nonsense.

Season 19-20, all forwards, min. 25 games played.

Armia 58gp 16+14 0.52 PPG

Montreal 7th
5th Suzuki 0.58
6th Drouin 0.56

Anaheim 5th
4th Silferberg 0.59

Arizona 7th
5th Dvorak 0.54
6th Kessel 0.54

Boston 7th
5th Debrusk 0.54
6th Coyle 0.53

Buffalo 4th

Calgary 6th

Carolina 6th
4th Necas 0.56
5th Haula 0.54

Chicago 7th
6th Saad 0.57

Colorado 6th

Columbus 5th
4th Atkinson 0.59

Dallas 5th
2th Radulov 0.57
3th Benn 0.57
4th Hintz 0.55

Detroit 6th
5th Zadina 0.54

Edmonton 7th
5th Kassian 0.58
6th Neal 0.56

Florida 6th

Los Angeles 5th
4th Brown 0.53

Minnesota 6th
5th Zuccarello 0.57

Nashville 6th
3th Jarnkrok 0.53
4th Johansen 0.53
5th Bonino 0.52

New Jersey 7th
5th Coleman 0.54
6th Bratt 0.53

NYI 7th
6th Beauvillier 0.57

NYR 6th

Ottawa 6th

Philadelphia 9th
7th Hayes 0.59
8th Laughton 0.55

Pittsburgh 8th
6th Kahun 0.54
7th McCann 0.53

San Jose 5th

St.Louis 6th

Tampa Bay 7th
6th Palat 0.59

Toronto 7th
6th Mikheyev 0.59

Vancouver 9th
6th Gaudette 0.56
7th Leivo 0.53
8th Virtanen 0.52

Vegas 8th
6th Stephenson 0.54
7th Stastny 0.54

Washington 8th
7th Eller 0.57

Winnipeg 6th

League overall, season 19-20= top 6,45 forward
Almost a second liner, but not quite there. Between second and third line.

 

[Mrb1p]

Okay, let's stop this nonsense.

Season 19-20, all forwards, min. 25 games played.

Armia 58gp 16+14 0.52 PPG

Montreal 7th
5th Suzuki 0.58
6th Drouin 0.56

Anaheim 5th
4th Silferberg 0.59

Arizona 7th
5th Dvorak 0.54
6th Kessel 0.54

Boston 7th
5th Debrusk 0.54
6th Coyle 0.53

Buffalo 4th

Calgary 6th

Carolina 6th
4th Necas 0.56
5th Haula 0.54

Chicago 7th
6th Saad 0.57

Colorado 6th

Columbus 5th
4th Atkinson 0.59

Dallas 5th
2th Radulov 0.57
3th Benn 0.57
4th Hintz 0.55

Detroit 6th
5th Zadina 0.54

Edmonton 7th
5th Kassian 0.58
6th Neal 0.56

Florida 6th

Los Angeles 5th
4th Brown 0.53

Minnesota 6th
5th Zuccarello 0.57

Nashville 6th
3th Jarnkrok 0.53
4th Johansen 0.53
5th Bonino 0.52

New Jersey 7th
5th Coleman 0.54
6th Bratt 0.53

NYI 7th
6th Beauvillier 0.57

NYR 6th

Ottawa 6th

Philadelphia 9th
7th Hayes 0.59
8th Laughton 0.55

Pittsburgh 8th
6th Kahun 0.54
7th McCann 0.53

San Jose 5th

St.Louis 6th

Tampa Bay 7th
6th Palat 0.59

Toronto 7th
6th Mikheyev 0.59

Vancouver 9th
6th Gaudette 0.56
7th Leivo 0.53
8th Virtanen 0.52

Vegas 8th
6th Stephenson 0.54
7th Stastny 0.54

Washington 8th
7th Eller 0.57

Winnipeg 6th

League overall, season 19-20= top 6,45 forward
Almost a second liner, but not quite there. Between second and third line.

Lmao... Bunch of jibberish.

On that list, everyone is better than him but Chandler stevenson, Adam Gaudette, Mikheyev, Kahun, Coleman and Kassian...

 

[Aces on the road]

I don't agree that he's perfect for the third line, if the third line is either KK or Suzuki, these two need offensive wingers, Armia isn't that.

If it's Danault, I 100% agree, he could have a Moen to Pahlsson effect on Danault.

My Armia fan boy view is hope to get Danault and Armia in same line.
Suzuki can have Gally but soon he would miss Armia.

 

[Belial]

Okay, let's stop this nonsense.

Season 19-20, all forwards, min. 25 games played.

Armia 58gp 16+14 0.52 PPG

Montreal 7th
5th Suzuki 0.58
6th Drouin 0.56

Anaheim 5th
4th Silferberg 0.59

Arizona 7th
5th Dvorak 0.54
6th Kessel 0.54

Boston 7th
5th Debrusk 0.54
6th Coyle 0.53

Buffalo 4th

Calgary 6th

Carolina 6th
4th Necas 0.56
5th Haula 0.54

Chicago 7th
6th Saad 0.57

Colorado 6th

Columbus 5th
4th Atkinson 0.59

Dallas 5th
2th Radulov 0.57
3th Benn 0.57
4th Hintz 0.55

Detroit 6th
5th Zadina 0.54

Edmonton 7th
5th Kassian 0.58
6th Neal 0.56

Florida 6th

Los Angeles 5th
4th Brown 0.53

Minnesota 6th
5th Zuccarello 0.57

Nashville 6th
3th Jarnkrok 0.53
4th Johansen 0.53
5th Bonino 0.52

New Jersey 7th
5th Coleman 0.54
6th Bratt 0.53

NYI 7th
6th Beauvillier 0.57

NYR 6th

Ottawa 6th

Philadelphia 9th
7th Hayes 0.59
8th Laughton 0.55

Pittsburgh 8th
6th Kahun 0.54
7th McCann 0.53

San Jose 5th

St.Louis 6th

Tampa Bay 7th
6th Palat 0.59

Toronto 7th
6th Mikheyev 0.59

Vancouver 9th
6th Gaudette 0.56
7th Leivo 0.53
8th Virtanen 0.52

Vegas 8th
6th Stephenson 0.54
7th Stastny 0.54

Washington 8th
7th Eller 0.57

Winnipeg 6th

League overall, season 19-20= top 6,45 forward
Almost a second liner, but not quite there. Between second and third line.

Armia is a good player and I think the majority of the posters around here have no issues with him.

Those calling him a 4th liner just have no clue and think other teams are filled with elite forwards top to bottom...

He's still progressing on top of it, I think he can be even more productive. He has all the tools that's for sure.

We have a lot of guys on this roster that didn't peak yet in their career IMO.

It should be an extremely exciting season if there's one...

 

[FormerLurker]

If Armias on KKs wing again Ill commit seppuku.

Better get your affairs in order my man, you have a few months. Then hit that bucket list hard. Visit Graceland, check out the polar bears in Churchill, have a steak at Goucho Grill in London, re-watch the Habs-Red Army 1975 New Years game while snorting coke off a hooker's ass.

Anyone else got some bucket list suggestions for Mrb1p before he commits seppuku?

We'll miss you man.

 

[Miller Time]

Lmao... Bunch of jibberish.

On that list, everyone is better than him but Chandler stevenson, Adam Gaudette, Mikheyev, Kahun, Coleman and Kassian...

Could not disagree more.

One might reasonably argue that Armia's career-best productivity last year was heavily dependent on usage and our lack of quality top 6 wingers... That's at least a viable critique.

But as a hockey player, Armia contributes as much or more, beyond the offensive output, than almost every player listed in that post. If the .52ppg wasn't a fluke and he can sustain, it improve, on that, he's easily a quality 2/3 line winger on any team top tier team in the league.

 

[Montreals Forum]

I don't agree that he's perfect for the third line, if the third line is either KK or Suzuki, these two need offensive wingers, Armia isn't that.

If it's Danault, I 100% agree, he could have a Moen to Pahlsson effect on Danault.

I see your reasoning for sure.
I just believe Armia's responsible 2 way play while conservative, does cover the ice well defensively..

What I like about Armia is that he is a very good complimentary player. He does not have a big hole to his game.
He skates well, he shoots hard, plays a very responsible 2 way game, passing is passable.
What I do think is what do we replace him with?
It would be hard to replace a player of his caliber on the 3rd line.

Your reasoning for a scorer to be here with KK, is very valid...
I can potentially see Drouin headed to the 3rd, perhaps putting something like
Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Armia
Drouin is still looking for that final break out strong season, gets 2 good quality players to play with. I would expect he would drive the offence.
Armia was on pace for almost 23 goals in a full season last year, not playing top line minutes. His 2 way play should help offset some of Drouins weakness, and has a cannon for Drouin and Kotka to set up.
Kotka would have some coverage ability defensively, has an offensive weapon on the LW, He can further grow.

I like it as a line... a figurative 82 game season, or a compact one that is 50 games, either way I can finally say I feel comfortable believing we have great depth for a change.

 

[26Mats]

I see your reasoning for sure.
I just believe Armia's responsible 2 way play while conservative, does cover the ice well defensively..

What I like about Armia is that he is a very good complimentary player. He does not have a big hole to his game.
He skates well, he shoots hard, plays a very responsible 2 way game, passing is passable.
What I do think is what do we replace him with?
It would be hard to replace a player of his caliber on the 3rd line.

Your reasoning for a scorer to be here with KK, is very valid...
I can potentially see Drouin headed to the 3rd, perhaps putting something like
Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Armia
Drouin is still looking for that final break out strong season, gets 2 good quality players to play with. I would expect he would drive the offence.
Armia was on pace for almost 23 goals in a full season last year, not playing top line minutes. His 2 way play should help offset some of Drouins weakness, and has a cannon for Drouin and Kotka to set up.
Kotka would have some coverage ability defensively, has an offensive weapon on the LW, He can further grow.

I like it as a line... a figurative 82 game season, or a compact one that is 50 games, either way I can finally say I feel comfortable believing we have great depth for a change.

I like Armia for what he is.

But I do see a big hole in his game: offensive hockey sense. Still a very good two way bottom sixer. But too often he kills his line's offense.

If he (and Lehkonen) are on your 4th line because you've got 6 wingers better than them in the top 9, then you've got some serious depth - depth that could potentially compete with any forward corps, even without elite talent.

 

[TannedBum]

Lmao... Bunch of jibberish.

On that list, everyone is better than him but Chandler stevenson, Adam Gaudette, Mikheyev, Kahun, Coleman and Kassian...

Sorry i didn't leave any room for debate. Must be hard

If he (and Lehkonen) are on your 4th line because you've got 6 wingers better than them in the top 9, then you've got some serious depth - depth that could potentially compete with any forward corps, even without elite talent.

Byron is better than Armia ? Oookay. Armia on 4th isn't serious depth, it's serious waste.

 

[Apfel Struble]

Armia is consistently solid defensively and in the forecheck but is pretty streaky when it comes to production. If he stays healthy and plays with good teammates all season, I can see him be a 20-20-40 player down the road. If he could improve his puck deflection, he could even be a 25 goals scorer with some PP time in front of the net

Considering his solid puck protection skills and size, he'd be a player I'd try to anchor long term. Depends how he sees himself though and if he wants to stay there. A Poile kind of signing on him with long term and low AAV is a gamble I'd make