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Blue Jays Discussion: Joe Panik traded for the reliever we need.

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Bjindaho said:
We're down 3 competent arms that were expected, 1 guy who fought his way here, and a bunch of scraps.

Half our bullpen is waiver claims if not more.
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Trying to figure out the guys you're referring to. I count 4 competent guys(Yates, Merryweather, Phelps, Borucki), and then Dolis who's a major leaguer even if it should be the back half of the pen. Romano, Mayza, and Thornton are the only guys in out pen who would have been there anyway and for the most part those 3 have been good.

edit: I forgot Chatwood who I'd prefer to forget. 4 guys who would have been there anyway(give or take Thornton or Mayza if they go with 8 or 9 in the pen)
 
Canada4Gold said:
Trying to figure out the guys you're referring to. I count 4 competent guys(Yates, Merryweather, Phelps, Borucki), and then Dolis who's a major leaguer even if it should be the back half of the pen. Romano, Mayza, and Thornton are the only guys in out pen who would have been there anyway and for the most part those 3 have been good.
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Borucki hasn't done anything to warrant competent. Dolis is competent in low leverage.

Merryweather is the surprise reliever. He was supposed to be in AAA as a starter.

The point is that you can't say that we built a decent pen when it still needed depth.
 
TheBeastCoast said:
Yates,Phelps,Merryweather, Borucki, Hatch and now Dollis. I am failing to see the "scraps". Every single one of those arms improves our bullpen fairly significantly.
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Merryweather and Hatch were AAA starters when this team was built.

Borucki won a roster spot based on somebody having to make it (garbage need lefties in the pen logic)
 
TheBeastCoast said:
Yates,Phelps,Merryweather, Borucki, Hatch and now Dollis. I am failing to see the "scraps". Every single one of those arms improves our bullpen fairly significantly.
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You can include Chatwood returning to some decent form as well.

If everyone in the bullpen was healthy it would be one of the best in the league. The problem is, management gambled a bit with players that have injury problems, Yates and Merryweather as examples.
 
Bjindaho said:
Merryweather and Hatch were AAA starters when this team was built.

Borucki won a roster spot based on somebody having to make it (garbage need lefties in the pen logic)
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Jesus this is some smooth brained takes right here. Merryweather and Borucki are legit arms and if you can't see that you need help. Hatch involves projection but he would be helping this bullpen right now as well.
 
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Bjindaho said:
Merryweather and Hatch were AAA starters when this team was built.

Borucki won a roster spot based on somebody having to make it (garbage need lefties in the pen logic)
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Borucki is a very good lefty pen option. The numbers back it up.

Merryweather was always going to be a pen arm.
 
I see the traditional June swoon continues.

**Whew!
 
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Bjindaho said:
Borucki hasn't done anything to warrant competent. Dolis is competent in low leverage.

Merryweather is the surprise reliever. He was supposed to be in AAA as a starter.

The point is that you can't say that we built a decent pen when it still needed depth.
Click to expand...

Borucki has a career 4 ERA over 134 innings, including 3.30 over 30.0 IP as a reliever with a .183 opponent average and .581 OPS. No he's not going to be your closer but as your lefty 6th or 7th inning guy he's absolutely fine. If you want to argue injury risk with him Merryweather, and Yates that's a discussion I can agree with.

Could they have a couple extra guys who have options who they could have stashed in Buffalo? Perhaps but they're around their 17th and 18th guys at this point. When you put your 6th inning guy as your 2nd best guy, your long man as your 3rd best guy, your fringe roster 2nd lefty as your 4th best and 4 of your initial minor league depth options are also hurt it's going to be bad. Perhaps it could have been better than the pathetic group we have out there now, but 3 days ago everyone thought Castro was great and were crucifying Montoyo for going to Dolis ahead of him and now he's trash. It's not easy to identify the correct depth. All the good guys with options aren't available, and all the good free agents aren't going to sign minor league deals.
 
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canucksfan said:
I forgot to add it to my post a few minutes ago but why not try Moreno with the big club and send Adams down?
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It's interesting, because normally you wouldn't want to start a players clock, but because he was a IFA signing he's already on the 40 man so you could in theory call him up and then send him down when Kirk or Jansen is back and you don't change anything except he has a couple weeks of service time. You're already using an option this year.

I figure they'll want him to spend time in Buffalo first. If he were there already for a couple weeks and was raking and the same situation happened I feel they might do it, though it's not unheard of for players to come up without spending any time in AAA.

Also he just grounded out with runners on 1st and 3rd to end the same 5 run inning he just started so clearly he's not ready :sarcasm:
 
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Canada4Gold said:
It's interesting, because normally you wouldn't want to start a players clock, but because he was a IFA signing he's already on the 40 man so you could in theory call him up and then send him down when Kirk or Jansen is back and you don't change anything except he has a couple weeks of service time. You're already using an option this year.

I figure they'll want him to spend time in Buffalo first. If he were there already for a couple weeks and was raking and the same situation happened I feel they might do it, though it's not unheard of for players to come up without spending any time in AAA.

Also he just grounded out with runners on 1st and 3rd to end the same 5 run inning he just started so clearly he's not ready :sarcasm:
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Management really likes players get all levels on minor league ball but they let Kirk skip. Furthermore, it will only be for a few days because Jansen should be back soon.

Adams looks lost and Moreno is tearing AA up.
 
canucksfan said:
Management really likes players get all levels on minor league ball but they let Kirk skip. Furthermore, it will only be for a few days because Jansen should be back soon.

Adams looks lost and Moreno is tearing AA up.
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TBH if the minor leagues were running last year I don't think they would have called Kirk up. Though if the minors were running who knows if Kirk would have made his way to AAA by then anyway, he probably starts last year in AA and it was August or September when he got promoted? Sort of like how Manoah skipped A, A+ and AA with no minors. With no minors last year and Kirk having to be added to the 40 anyway this past offseason there wasn't really much different with having Kirk face alternate site competition in scrimmages or get some ABs in the majors.
 
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Canada4Gold said:
Borucki has a career 4 ERA over 134 innings, including 3.30 over 30.0 IP as a reliever with a .183 opponent average and .581 OPS. No he's not going to be your closer but as your lefty 6th or 7th inning guy he's absolutely fine. If you want to argue injury risk with him Merryweather, and Yates that's a discussion I can agree with.

Could they have a couple extra guys who have options who they could have stashed in Buffalo? Perhaps but they're around their 17th and 18th guys at this point. When you put your 6th inning guy as your 2nd best guy, your long man as your 3rd best guy, your fringe roster 2nd lefty as your 4th best and 4 of your initial minor league depth options are also hurt it's going to be bad. Perhaps it could have been better than the pathetic group we have out there now, but 3 days ago everyone thought Castro was great and were crucifying Montoyo for going to Dolis ahead of him and now he's trash. It's not easy to identify the correct depth. All the good guys with options aren't available, and all the good free agents aren't going to sign minor league deals.
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It was definitely the plan going into the year that a portion of the bullpen would be prospect starters, with Romano, Merryweather, Murphy, Hatch, Borucki, Thornton, Kay, Waguespack and Zeuch all being in that mix. Given their performance as relievers the season before, it was going to be likely that Romano, Merryweather and Borucki would be all big parts of the bullpen if used that way.
 
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