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Blue Jays Discussion: Joe Panik traded for the reliever we need.

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It's only a minor league deal. Toss him in AAA for a week or so and see if that stuff plays there. If it does then we think about if we need him at the big league level
 
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About a month and a half into the minor league season. We finally have real information on these guys for the first time in a year and a half. What is your updated Jays top 30 prospect list. Hatch, Adams, Kirk, Manoah, Merryweather, and Pearson all still count as they have rookie status still. Mine below with tiers

1. Moreno
2. Pearson
3. Martin
4. Manoah
5. SWR
--------------------
6. Groshans
7. Kirk
8. Martinez
--------------------
9. Hatch
10. Lopez
11. Hiraldo
12. Merryweather
13. Smith
14. Kloffenstein
--------------------
15. Van Eyk
16. Murray
17. Taylor
18. Jimenez
19. Palacios
20. Pardinho
21. Beltre
22. Robberse
23. Brown
24. Danner
25. Maese
26. Machado
27. Murphy
28. Adams
29. Frasso
30. Britton
 
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Canada4Gold said:
About a month and a half into the minor league season. We finally have real information on these guys for the first time in a year and a half. What is your updated Jays top 30 prospect list. Hatch, Adams, Kirk, Manoah, Merryweather, and Pearson all still count as they have rookie status still. Mine below with tiers

1. Moreno
2. Pearson
3. Martin
4. Manoah
5. SWR
--------------------
6. Groshans
7. Kirk
8. Martinez
--------------------
9. Hatch
10. Lopez
11. Hiraldo
12. Merryweather
13. Smith
14. Kloffenstein
--------------------
15. Van Eyk
16. Murray
17. Taylor
18. Jimenez
19. Palacios
20. Pardinho
21. Beltre
22. Robberse
23. Brown
24. Danner
25. Maese
26. Machado
27. Murphy
28. Adams
29. Frasso
30. Britton
Click to expand...

I can only do the top five with confidence but I have the same thing except I have Groshans and SWR switched.
 
Canada4Gold said:
About a month and a half into the minor league season. We finally have real information on these guys for the first time in a year and a half. What is your updated Jays top 30 prospect list. Hatch, Adams, Kirk, Manoah, Merryweather, and Pearson all still count as they have rookie status still. Mine below with tiers

1. Moreno
2. Pearson
3. Martin
4. Manoah
5. SWR
--------------------
6. Groshans
7. Kirk
8. Martinez
--------------------
9. Hatch
10. Lopez
11. Hiraldo
12. Merryweather
13. Smith
14. Kloffenstein
--------------------
15. Van Eyk
16. Murray
17. Taylor
18. Jimenez
19. Palacios
20. Pardinho
21. Beltre
22. Robberse
23. Brown
24. Danner
25. Maese
26. Machado
27. Murphy
28. Adams
29. Frasso
30. Britton
Click to expand...

De Castro? Don't know much about him but I thought scouting services were high on him?

Great list though. I'd argue Groshans should be 1st tier, and Taylor up a tier/Lopez down a tier, but that's just being picky.
 
canucksfan said:
I can only do the top five with confidence but I have the same thing except I have Groshans and SWR switched.
Click to expand...

I'm really excited about SWR. More on Groshans below, but I had him as the number 2 guy(SWR 4) entering the year but like I say below reference the jump to AA, SWR's dominance of AA at only 20 has been very very exciting.

Morgs said:
De Castro? Don't know much about him but I thought scouting services were high on him?

Great list though. I'd argue Groshans should be 1st tier, and Taylor up a tier/Lopez down a tier, but that's just being picky.
Click to expand...

I did the list and then realized I missed De Castro. I know very little about him and Machado though. Looking forward to them getting some action, I would assume in either the DSL or GCL when those get going.

Funny, before this season I had Groshans higher than Martin and I wasn't that high on Lopez, now it seems like I've flipped. I think I really had high hopes for Groshans and while his season has been perfectly fine I was looking forward to perhaps more of a dominant performance. That's perhaps me having too high of expectations. I had a lot of difficulty finding a line between the first and 2nd tiers. Lopez meanwhile I've been very impressed with. Besides the obvious jump from AAA to the big leagues A+ to AA seems to be the biggest jump and he's far exceeded my expectations. Once someone makes that jump and puts up those kind of numbers I can't not get excited. I guess that goes against the Taylor rating, but the K rate there still scares me, especially for someone who wasn't really on the radar a year ago(Taylor probably was in the 30's while a lot of places had Lopez in the teens entering this year), while Lopez had more of a track record so I was more willing to bump him up to that tier above Taylor. If they continue their current tracks for the rest of the year Taylor likely jumps near and probably above Lopez. A month and a half only with that K rate I'm going to be a little conservative yet with Taylor.
 
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Canada4Gold said:
I did the list and then realized I missed De Castro. I know very little about him and Machado though. Looking forward to them getting some action, I would assume in either the DSL or GCL when those get going.

Funny, before this season I had Groshans higher than Martin and I wasn't that high on Lopez, now it seems like I've flipped. I think I really had high hopes for Groshans and while his season has been perfectly fine I was looking forward to perhaps more of a dominant performance. That's perhaps me having too high of expectations. I had a lot of difficulty finding a line between the first and 2nd tiers. Lopez meanwhile I've been very impressed with. Besides the obvious jump from AAA to the big leagues A+ to AA seems to be the biggest jump and he's far exceeded my expectations. Once someone makes that jump and puts up those kind of numbers I can't not get excited. I guess that goes against the Taylor rating, but the K rate there still scares me, especially for someone who wasn't really on the radar a year ago(Taylor probably was in the 30's while a lot of places had Lopez in the teens entering this year), while Lopez had more of a track record so I was more willing to bump him up to that tier above Taylor. If they continue their current tracks for the rest of the year Taylor likely jumps near and probably above Lopez.
Click to expand...

I had high hopes for Groshans as well but he didn't play much in 2019 and obviously didn't play in 2020. I lowered my expectations because of the games missed. Groshans seems to be coming on and hopefully, he does.

In May he had wRC of 92 and his k rate was 28.1%. He has cut his k rate down to around 15% and has increased his power numbers. He just needs to remain healthy. That's my only concern with him. In the last week, not including today's game either, he has a wRC of 147 and his k rate and BB rate are the same.
 
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Yeah I would say my expectations of Groshans were probably unfair given how much time he's missed. I was just so high on him that I couldn't wait for him to finally get to show how good he is and then to only be league average I probably felt too let down. After all that time off league average for a month is just fine. If he ends the season league average then that's less ideal but even a full season healthy is a step in the right direction. Him dropping to 6 is more the guys around him rising than him falling though. I would say he's perhaps fallen slightly in my book if I were to look league wide, but I think he's possibly still a top 50 prospect. I edited this in my post above but I'm loving SWR this year, and Manoah took a huge jump as well. The fact that Kirk is 7 is just mid boggling. After 8 it gets a lot more volatile, with a bunch of other interesting guys as well but that top 8 is just ridiculous.
 
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He's not going to be a high pick in this draft but I'm kind of fascinated by "closer" Kevin Kopps from Arkansas. Wouldn't mind throwing him a flier in the teens as a fast-track reliever.

Guy is already 24 and his fastball tops out at 90-92mph. Even BA only has him ranked 235th. His numbers prior to this year have been pretty garbage too, until he developed this "invisi-slider/cutter" pitch that he throws 76% of the time but which no one seems to be able to pick up.

His numbers in the SEC are Joey Murray-like at 33g 0.90era 89.2ip 50h 18bb 131so.


Kopps has carried a starter’s workload as a moment-of-truth reliever for the nation’s No. 1 team. In the NCAA regionals, Kopps threw 13.1 scoreless innings and 185 pitches in four days to get two wins and a save in three appearances. After NCAA regionals he led the nation with a 0.68 ERA. Kopps has one plus pitch, but it’s an exceptional offering. Even college hitters that know he’s going to throw his plus-plus mid-80s slider/cutter can’t lay off of it. He can throw it for strikes, where its late movement still makes it tough to hit. And when he gets to two strikes, he can lower his target and watch hitters swing over an almost unhittable slider in the dirt. Kopps throws his below-average 88-92 mph fastball just 24% of the time overall and just 17% of the time when he’s in a two-strike count. He will mix in a below-average slow (mid 70s) curveball and he’s toyed with a fringe-average changeup that is effective because of the surprise factor. This is Kopps’ fifth season at Arkansas (he redshirted one year and then received a medical redshirt as he recovered from Tommy John surgery). He is already 24 years old. A team picking him will expect him to move quite quickly, but considering his workload this spring, any pro team signing him will have to consider shutting him down until 2022 because of his heavy usage. He should move quickly, but there are some doubts that his dominance will translate effectively to pro ball.
Click to expand...
 
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Keep adding arms. Trade for more power arms to fill the bullpen. Sooner or later we will hit on 1 or 2 arms that will solidify the only weakness on this roster.

My hope is Borucki, Cole and Merrywether will come back soon and help in a big way. I also thing the Jays should bring up Pearson and put him in front of Romano at the back of the bullpen. He is the type of pitcher that we dont need in the rotation right now but can help in the bullpen.

What they are waiting for I dont know.

Romano
Pearson
Merrywether
Borucki
Chatwood
Mayza
Cole
Axford
Dolis
 
Canada4Gold said:
It's only a minor league deal. Toss him in AAA for a week or so and see if that stuff plays there. If it does then we think about if we need him at the big league level
Click to expand...
This is my thought as well, worst case he's a veteran out there that helps the kids in the minors. He's led the majors in saves before, so he'd have some insight to share with these kids about what it takes to be a high-leverage reliever.
 
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Canada4Gold said:
I'm really excited about SWR. More on Groshans below, but I had him as the number 2 guy(SWR 4) entering the year but like I say below reference the jump to AA, SWR's dominance of AA at only 20 has been very very exciting.



I did the list and then realized I missed De Castro. I know very little about him and Machado though. Looking forward to them getting some action, I would assume in either the DSL or GCL when those get going.

Funny, before this season I had Groshans higher than Martin and I wasn't that high on Lopez, now it seems like I've flipped. I think I really had high hopes for Groshans and while his season has been perfectly fine I was looking forward to perhaps more of a dominant performance. That's perhaps me having too high of expectations. I had a lot of difficulty finding a line between the first and 2nd tiers. Lopez meanwhile I've been very impressed with. Besides the obvious jump from AAA to the big leagues A+ to AA seems to be the biggest jump and he's far exceeded my expectations. Once someone makes that jump and puts up those kind of numbers I can't not get excited. I guess that goes against the Taylor rating, but the K rate there still scares me, especially for someone who wasn't really on the radar a year ago(Taylor probably was in the 30's while a lot of places had Lopez in the teens entering this year), while Lopez had more of a track record so I was more willing to bump him up to that tier above Taylor. If they continue their current tracks for the rest of the year Taylor likely jumps near and probably above Lopez. A month and a half only with that K rate I'm going to be a little conservative yet with Taylor.
Click to expand...
I had SWR at 2 as well and my friends can confirm I had Moreno at 1 after last year.

Moreno
SWR
Martin
Pearson
Groshans
Manoah
Martinez
Kirk

but really could have any of Martin, Moreno, SWR, Pearson or maybe even Manoah at 1. Nice list. Now let’s get the current team going!!
 
BlueForever75 said:
Keep adding arms. Trade for more power arms to fill the bullpen. Sooner or later we will hit on 1 or 2 arms that will solidify the only weakness on this roster.

My hope is Borucki, Cole and Merrywether will come back soon and help in a big way. I also thing the Jays should bring up Pearson and put him in front of Romano at the back of the bullpen. He is the type of pitcher that we dont need in the rotation right now but can help in the bullpen.

What they are waiting for I dont know.

Romano
Pearson
Merrywether
Borucki
Chatwood
Mayza
Cole
Axford
Dolis
Click to expand...

There's so much more to consider with Pearson, particularly how making him a reliever will affect him in future years. Given his injury history and the lost season last year, he's nowhere close to being built up enough to start a full season. If you move him to the pen this year and limit him to 60ish innings, you're either calling him a full-time reliever or committing to a reduced workload as a starter over the next couple years.

The best thing to do is let him start for Buffalo and either give him a chance in the rotation when there's an opening or move him to the pen closer to the end of the season when he's pushing his innings limit anyway.

And trade a couple depth prospects for pen reinforcements right now, obviously.
 
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Got Teo and Springer here.



Bisons Zach Logue named Triple-A East Pitcher of the Week
Today Minor League Baseball announced that LHP ZACH LOGUE has been named the Triple-A East Pitcher of the Week for the week of June 14-20.

Logue made his first career Triple-A start on June 18 against the Rochester Red Wings. The south paw allowed just one hit over seven innings, while striking out eight and not allowing a walk in the process.
Click to expand...
 
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canucksfan said:
Seattle has a negative 46 run differential and the Jays have a positive 43 run differential and the M's have a better record than the Jays! That's crazy.
Click to expand...

Which is why I'd like to see a stat showing how the Jays hit against good pitching, like vs. good pitchers or just when a pitcher was pitching well against them. It's easy to put up high run differentials when you're crushing bad pitching 18 to 1 (in fact, you'd only need to have three games like that, and average scores the rest of the time, to get the differential noted above), but it doesn't mean much when the game is on the line with a runner on third and your average is like .100 in such situations. Kind of like 5 on 5 stats in hockey.

It just feels like the Jays only hit well when they're facing bad pitching. Against good pitching, they don't seem to be much better than anyone else.
 
TGB said:
Which is why I'd like to see a stat showing how the Jays hit against good pitching, like vs. good pitchers or just when a pitcher was pitching well against them. It's easy to put up high run differentials when you're crushing bad pitching 18 to 1 (in fact, you'd only need to have three games like that, and average scores the rest of the time, to get the differential noted above), but it doesn't mean much when the game is on the line with a runner on third and your average is like .100 in such situations. Kind of like 5 on 5 stats in hockey.

It just feels like the Jays only hit well when they're facing bad pitching. Against good pitching, they don't seem to be much better than anyone else.
Click to expand...


The only teams they haven’t hit well against are the As, Angels, White Sox, Rangers, and Royals. I’m far too lazy to look up specific pitchers but the White Sox have the best rotation, Oakland is in the top 10, Angels and Royals are mid pack, and the Rangers are bottom 5. Blue Jays pitching are meanwhile the worst in terms of high leverage situations.
 
Is there a catching prospect, past or present, that Moreno is similar too, either in style or in potential? I'm struggling to think of an appropriate comparison cause there have been some well-regarded catching prospects who had good seasons, but who were not always consistently at their best. Maybe something along the lines of a Willson Contreras?
 
phillipmike said:


Got Teo and Springer here.



Bisons Zach Logue named Triple-A East Pitcher of the Week
Click to expand...


In all seriousness, I wonder if Reese's incident had an impact on his play last season. Could also have been a weird year that impacted his bat. He has a wRC of 108 and also provides good defense. He's not striking out at an alarming rate. Last year he was making a lot of very weak contact if I remember correctly. I have said this many times but I still don't understand how a team didn't take him while he was on waivers.

I would keep Logue as a starter while in the minors but I could easily see him being a good reliever. I don't think his stuff will play as a starter in the MLB. Anyone knows his velocity this year? I know he typically sits around 90-91 in previous years.
 
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TheMadHatTrick said:
Is there a catching prospect, past or present, that Moreno is similar too, either in style or in potential? I'm struggling to think of an appropriate comparison cause there have been some well-regarded catching prospects who had good seasons, but who were not always consistently at their best. Maybe something along the lines of a Willson Contreras?
Click to expand...

Francisco Mejia?

I was just looking at Moreno's stats and his ISO is .302. His next previous high was in 2018 when it was .239
 
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