Player Discussion Jimmy Vesey

[Fitzy]

Look who his audience is. A minor league major league city with not much going for it. If he's claiming the Rangers are in decline what kind of decline is his city in?

Not that it's at all relevant to Vesey, but Buffalo is one of the fastest economically growing cities in the Northeast.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

WAAAAH! Those tears taste like sweet victory. What a chump!

http://sabres.buffalonews.com/2016/08/20/few-came-off-well-during-vesey-watch/

Yeah, this nonsense is WIDE RIGHT......

 

[Tawnos]

I don't really know why Vesey was so hyped with this signing, as he looks like a good prospect with a chance at being a goal scoring 2nd liner, but not exactly an elite player or something, but that's how these things go. That said, people crying about him going the UFA route and pulling the "who does this guy think he is? He isn't even a Lindros, to think that he should use what's allowed in the CBA to decide where he wants to play is absurd and he's a ridiculous *******!" is getting silly since it comes up every time now a player does it (and it's pretty rare anyways).

Hopefully he can push into a lineup spot for the Rangers and it also provides them some flexibility if they end up trading Nash.

There are really two definitions of hype. One is just getting a lot of attention and the other is exaggerating the benefits of whatever it is.

I don't feel like we saw a lot of people exaggerating Veseys abilities. The extra attention was just from the fact that it's been a pretty dull offseason. I mean, we are talking about the player of the year in one of the best development avenues. The hype is somewhat deserved.

 

[Levitate]

Fair enough about the hype. I guess it's just kind of dumb to see people go "oh he's actually bad and won't be good he's being built up too much" after he finally signs with a team and people can bring their preconceived notions about teams to bear.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Oy, what an article. I especially like the accusation that Vesey's agents were tampering (or as I view it, doing their jobs).

Or implying that Quenneville and Bowman watching him play is tampering. Is he challenged in the head?

 

[Luger]

Vesey was ranked #14 prospect by the THN Future Watch. Was the biggest riser in THN rankings this year. Probably a better prospect than given credit. I say he becomes a good top 6 player after a couple of seasons.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/future-watch-2016-the-nhls-top-10-rising-prospects/

[Long time reader, but this is my first post. How did I do? ]

 

[RangerBoy]

Look at this guy from Arizona

If that’s true, it’s hard to figure out why Vesey chose the Rangers, a team in decline, a team whose Stanley Cup window has closed, a team whose best player (goalie Henrik Lundqvist) is nearing the end of his productive career, and a team with salary cap issues. Vesey won’t likely compete for a Cup any time soon in New York, and by spurning the Bruins for that city’s chief regional rival in most things, he likely lost the love of his passionate and emotional hometown fan base.

Vesey admitted on a conference call that joining friend and Boston area product Kevin Hayes in New York was appealing, but the main reason he cited sounded a lot like one of those bland responses you get in a carefully crafted team press release.

“The thing that jumped out at me was that they came to really want me,†Vesey said. “It seemed that they really needed to have me in their lineup and it seemed that they believe in me. That was something that I was looking for.â€

Give me a break. Every other team pursuing Vesey “really†wanted him.

Chicago GM Stan Bowman was on hand to watch Vesey play repeatedly and the Blackhawks reportedly offered him a spot alongside Jonathan Toews. Buffalo traded a draft pick to acquire exclusive negotiating rights with Vesey’s camp. Nashville had him in three development camps.

We may never know why Vesey truly chose New York, but some NHL executives had ideas.

“He was promised big money after his entry-level deal,†said one executive, who requested anonymity while also expressing a buyer-beware sentiment on Vesey.

“He wants the big stage like Hayes,†said another. “Be careful what you ask for. That city will eat him alive.â€

Vesey said the Rangers don’t need him to be savior, but all the hype surrounding his signing has absolutely increased the pressure on the Harvard product. There is nowhere to hide from the spotlight in New York and let’s not forget that his good bud, Hayes, has been little more than a mediocre player in New York after spurning the Blackhawks, who drafted him in 2014.

With the Rangers, Vesey could begin his rookie season as the No. 3 left wing behind Rick Nash and Chris Kreider, or higher if the Rangers are interested and able to find someone to take the final two years of Nash’s eight-year, $62 million contract ($7.8 million AAV) off their hands.

While multiple NHL executives told Today’s Slapshot they believe Vesey has the tools to become a top-six wing (he had 56 goals and 104 points in 70 games over his last two seasons at Harvard), there is far from a consensus on the former third-round pick. Analytics guru Rob Vollman provided an interesting analysis on Vesey’s potential that you can read right here.

Maybe it will all pan out for Vesey in New York. This was, after all, his choice and nobody else’s to make. But if his decision had been “based purely on a hockey decision,†as Donatelli suggested, there were numerous options better than New York.

In Chicago, he would have been guaranteed almost instant success playing alongside Toews on a ready-made Cup contender. Ditto for Pittsburgh. In Buffalo, he would have joined an up-and-coming roster, and in Nashville, he would have joined what is arguable a better roster. Even Philadelphia offers a talented prospect pool that could pay dividends in the next couple years. Of the remaining suitors, only Boston’s future seems markedly worse than the Rangers’.

We won’t know for two years, but maybe that one NHL executive was right. Maybe this was just about getting paid down the line. In the end, that’s usually what drives these decisions regardless of the marketing lines falling from players’ and agents’ lips.

At least this overblown story has ended. As far as over-the-top hype goes, this case ranks near the top, given Vesey’s draft status and the ridiculous lengths many teams went to land him.

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/one-timers/craigs-list-vesey-makes-curious-choice-maloney-moves-on/

Craig Morgan is another one of these clueless hockey writers. The 2nd contract was a big factor. Craig needs to pay more attention.

“What Jimmy wants to do is see it through,†said Fish. “He’s wanted to go to free agency and he’s going to see it through. There’s about 4-5 teams other than Buffalo that he wants to hear from. And then after that he’s going to make a decision. I think he’d love for the Bruins to be one of those teams. I assume that we will be taking a call from them.

“We’ve looked at depth charts with some teams and talked about them. . . . “There’s obviously a lot of thought that goes into it: The city, the coach, the GM, the salary structure, how a team treats their players in the second and third contracts down the road.â€

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...and_harvard_star_is_narrowing_list_for_monday

Most of the these guys are a bunch of lazy bums. They complain about having to work and travel during the season. They have the entire summer or winter off depending upon which sport they cover. Most of these guys can't attend a morning practice after a night game.

Rob Vollman bases everything on statistics. He looks at past ECAC players and compares them to Vesey.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Never underestimate the allure of the greatest city in the world.....

 

[aufheben]

How can you be in a decline after one season?

So dumb.

 

[Boruto]

Jimmy seems like a good kid. Kevin Hayes walked out on Chicago and you can tell there's absolutely zero entitlement or arrogance on Kevin's part. Prior to his first game in Chicago, the sentiment was that he feels bad that it's an awkward situation. Jimmy Vesey is no different. These high horse condescension from all these posters is basically a detached version of "Wait a minute, if I can't get the last scooter at Walmart, this cow can't get one either. Either I get it, or no one gets it". I'm really rooting for Jimmy not even to do well on the team but just so push back on the narratives.

 

[Thirty One]

Or implying that Quenneville and Bowman watching him play is tampering. Is he challenged in the head?

All scouting is actually tampering

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Look at this guy from Arizona



http://www.todaysslapshot.com/one-timers/craigs-list-vesey-makes-curious-choice-maloney-moves-on/

Craig Morgan is another one of these clueless hockey writers. The 2nd contract was a big factor. Craig needs to pay more attention.



http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...and_harvard_star_is_narrowing_list_for_monday

Most of the these guys are a bunch of lazy bums. They complain about having to work and travel during the season. They have the entire summer or winter off depending upon which sport they cover. Most of these guys can't attend a morning practice after a night game.

Rob Vollman bases everything on statistics. He looks at past ECAC players and compares them to Vesey.

An "up and coming" roster usually means perennial losers. And it does in this case.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

People are looking too much at potential and prospect pools. Edmonton is a prime example of that. All those picks and still no play offs. Teams need more than just picks and prospects. The truth is, we have a core 26 and younger. Staal and Girardi are the only issues on the team.

Staal can be traded, because he still holds value while Girardi either has a bounce-back season or is bought out next summer. Either way, Vesey picked a team that has both the experience and potential needed to win play-off games.

Nash coming off the books the moment Vesey becomes a restricted free agent gives him a lot of room to negotiate if he plays great hockey for 2 years. The Rangers are not in a cap crunch, which is really unbelievable considering how many RFAs we had

 

[Kovalev27]

Do these reporters do any research anymore?

Cap strapped? We're in great shape with the cap right now and almost 8 mil alone comes off in 2 years when Nash's contract expires.

Really strong young forward group. You've got hank at 34 far from finished but PLENTY of goalie prospects coming up behind him.

Only 2 D men over 30.

Window closed? We lost to the Cup champs last year like everyone else did. We'll be right there again next season after finally getting a breather this summer

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Which is it: these reporters post on the main trade or do they just steal from it?

 

[Baby Punisher]

Credit to Dagoon once again despite the uncalled for sniping.

He is right more times than he is not,

 

[LeetchisGod]

Just got back from the Sabres main board, it's incredible how fans of a team that hasn't made the playoffs in ages is slagging off on how much the Rangers will suck. wanted to post so bad but anything I'd say would have been tagged a troll.

Some Laffs and Piles fans are just as bad. Getting Matthews doesn't guarantee them success and the Piles finally won a playoff series against a mediocre Panthers team. They should start planning the parade now.

 

[eco's bones]

Do these reporters do any research anymore?

Cap strapped? We're in great shape with the cap right now and almost 8 mil alone comes off in 2 years when Nash's contract expires.

Really strong young forward group. You've got hank at 34 far from finished but PLENTY of goalie prospects coming up behind him.

Only 2 D men over 30.

Window closed? We lost to the Cup champs last year like everyone else did. We'll be right there again next season after finally getting a breather this summer

If our organizational roster stays the way it is I'm looking at a Rangers team going into the season with almost $3 mil of unused cap space.

I really don't know if we're a legit contender but I still think the Rangers are a pretty good team and we're getting written off all over the place. The Rangers made a lot of bad choices last year and this off season I'm hard pressed to see any bad choices. Maybe if Yandle would have been cheaper but no way should we have given him the contract Florida did. I really like pretty much everything Gorton has done this summer.

Brassard pretty much turns into Zibanejad and some of the saved cap space goes to Jimmy Vesey and we get a 2nd round pick to boot. I loved Brassard but.......

Free Agent signings Grabner, Jooris and Gerbe give us depth and penalty killing. Should have a good 4th line to roll, more speed and more help from the forwards for the D.

Signing Buchnevich and Kovacs.

Getting a serviceable NHL D in Nick Holden for a draft pick.

Other really good prospect signings--Paliotta, Clendening, Gilmour, Stromwall.

Dumped a lot of dead wood as well.

 

[GOAT AINEC]

I love how mad others teams fans are.

Not our fault everyone wants to play in New York!

I wonder which prospect of another team will come begging to play for us next haha.

 

[Kovalev27]

We had a horrible offseason last year and sure enough it showed.

And losing Yandle made me think we were headed down same path. But Grabner Jooris Gerbe and the very savvy trade for Holden all good pkers totally revamps our biggest weakness last year.

Then the Brassard trade that immediately hurt but then taking emotion out was an absolutely unreal deal for us. A kid that JUST turned 23 righty center big and fast a two way guy that also kills penalties and is literally just coming into his own PLUS a 2nd? Now we're getting somewhere.

Then I've said it Vesey would make or break this offseason and Gorton made it happen huge huge addition. Not to mention getting Buchnevich over here as well.

Having said that he's not done. He's got to turn one of our wingers into a top righty Dman I still feel that way. Right now we've got a bigtime hole there.

But overall we are going to be very much in the mix even if we don't make another move this summer. We'll be forward heavy but can look to make that addition during the season.

 

[NYR2007]

I just watched some old rangers games off iTunes and damn every game I watched brassard was a huge factor in the games ... Even if he wasn't putting up points he was setting up plays etc

Hope this kid we got in the trade can fill in cause that was a big loss for us

 

[FLYLine27*]

I just watched some old rangers games off iTunes and damn every game I watched brassard was a huge factor in the games ... Even if he wasn't putting up points he was setting up plays etc

Hope this kid we got in the trade can fill in cause that was a big loss for us

Zib is not going to let us down. Might not be as impactful(is that a word?) the first year, but he will turn into a VERY solid player for us.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Lundqvist just posted the best 5v5 SV% of his career, why is EVERY SINGLE ARTICLE written about the Rangers talking about him like he's already begun to decline? He's 34, not 44, and his play has shown zero signs of showing down. I know logic says he should start declining soon, but with a guy like Lundqvist, I'll believe it when I see it.

And his imminent decline it is far from the foregone conclusion that most "analysts" seem to think it is.


Vesey on the Hawks = Instant success, but Vesey on the Rangers = Prob not?

I get the fans, but why are the reporters seemingly all salty?


The Rangers promised him big money on his second deal? I'm sure they told him what every other team told him: if you perform you will get rewarded.


Rangers are cap strapped? We have 2.5m in space and that's with 14 forwards and 8 D. Not to mention by the time Vesey is up for a new deal, Nash's deal is off the books and at the very least 1 of Girardi or Staal will be moved or bought out.

 

[Beacon]

People are looking too much at potential and prospect pools. Edmonton is a prime example of that. All those picks and still no play offs. Teams need more than just picks and prospects.

That's because 90% of prospects are overrated by fans. When a team says that so-and-so is a good prospect, the fans think they might be getting a star. There's an absolute frenzy around anyone who scores over 100 points in the Juniors, and even a point per game leads to talk of how good the kid is. But ppg guys rarely make the NHL and 100 points is not uncommon in the Juniors. The lottery doesn't produce the expected results either: the problem is that outside of the top 2-3 picks, you're as likely to get a third line scrub as a first liner, but the hype that you got a "top-10 pick" gives fans hope for years.

Then the kid hits the pros and unless he performs better than 70% of 100-point CHLers, better than 95% of ppg CHLers, and better than 50% of those drafted at #4-10, he's just a run of the mill NHL role player or even a bust. The team that is empty of quality NHLers adds a couple role players, maybe one top-6 guy, but fails to get significantly better. The confused fans just can't understand how their great prospect pool with a dozen guys scoring 70-100 points in the CHL didn't result in the bright future they were all expecting.

Edmonton, however, is different. For one, they got a legit superstar in McDavid. On top of that, they got a ton of support staff like Draisatl, RHN, Eberle, Nurse, Klefbom, and Hall/Larsson, etc. They were so bad for so long that they couldn't help themselves but get better.

 

[LeetchisGod]

That's because 90% of prospects are overrated by fans. When a team says that so-and-so is a good prospect, the fans think they might be getting a star. There's an absolute frenzy around anyone who scores over 100 points in the Juniors, and even a point per game leads to talk of how good the kid is. But ppg guys rarely make the NHL and 100 points is not uncommon in the Juniors. The lottery doesn't produce the expected results either: the problem is that outside of the top 2-3 picks, you're as likely to get a third line scrub as a first liner, but the hype that you got a "top-10 pick" gives fans hope for years.

Then the kid hits the pros and unless he performs better than 70% of 100-point CHLers, better than 95% of ppg CHLers, and better than 50% of those drafted at #4-10, he's just a run of the mill NHL role player or even a bust. The team that is empty of quality NHLers adds a couple role players, maybe one top-6 guy, but fails to get significantly better. The confused fans just can't understand how their great prospect pool with a dozen guys scoring 70-100 points in the CHL didn't result in the bright future they were all expecting.

Edmonton, however, is different. For one, they got a legit superstar in McDavid. On top of that, they got a ton of support staff like Draisatl, RHN, Eberle, Nurse, Klefbom, and Hall/Larsson, etc. They were so bad for so long that they couldn't help themselves but get better.

Get back to me when they make the playoffs and win a round or two.