Post-Game Talk: Jets neutered, lose 6-1

[razorsedge]

The 25 odd man rushes after turnovers and poor efforts by the forwards to help out didn't help.

55 has tuned out Maurice... 26 probably hasn't cuz he's still getting his minutes but... 55 certainly has. Scheif needs a major attitude and effort adjustment.

Scheifele has completely checked out. I wouldn't be shocked if in the offseason we find out he had requested a trade.

This team is broken from the top down.

 

[Jets 31]

Beautiful. Right after the first time I watched it, I went on a White Russian binge, but it made me bloated and my face broke out!

Simply put, the Cohens can do no wrong. My list of favorite movies of all time are liberally sprinkled with their titles. I must have watched Lebowski, Fargo, Miller's Crossing and Barton Fink about a dozen times each. I even liked Intolerable Cruelty!

... and now back to our regularly scheduled program of dissecting the corpse of the Winnipeg Jets.

On a side note we used to go to LA every year and rent a house. The Ralph's he's in is on Sunset and it's called Rock'n Ralph's , you see guys dressed in slippers and a housecoat all the time shopping in there.

 

[Do or Die]

Ok, now that game may of looked pretty bad
But watching some of it again, and .......uh, still looks bad

Thought that with Nik and Lurch out, the team was going to step it up. Sometimes drinking is better than thinking.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Scheifele has completely checked out. I wouldn't be shocked if in the offseason we find out he had requested a trade.

This team is broken from the top down.

I think he's a smart hockey guy and knows we are f***ed with Maurice. I remember when Maurice signed an extension a reporter asked scheif and his response was something like "oh? They didn't ask me"

 

[jokesondee]

Scheifele has completely checked out. I wouldn't be shocked if in the offseason we find out he had requested a trade.

This team is broken from the top down.

Im starting to worry about this too. He seems unhappy and disgruntled this season. I wonder if seeing other guys around him and in the league making more money than he is might be starting to grind at him.

 

[Jet]

Well reading this thread was... something.

I thought the Jets played really hard last night. I didn't see a team that quit on their coach, I saw a team that overplayed situations and were to aggressive on a few occasions.

I saw desperation to win. The problem is Hellebuyck is struggling a bit right now and we're missing defensive assignments against players that feast on that kind of stuff. I'm also seeing some of our key offensive players struggling with their confidence.

Couple that with our best offensive and defensive forwards out of the lineup and you get what we've seen the past few games.

I thought the Jets played hard up to the last whistle, I saw no quit.

 

[Jet]

Unfortunately Maurice has more excuses for this loss. To be fair, No Ehlers or Lowsy.

His fault, though, for 'wanting to see how Benn looks against Edmonton', but then also sending Heinola down and not playing Stanley when both are better than Benn and Poolman, and Forbort needed a break, too - but he's a tiny step above Poolman at least.

I'm convinced Mo is unable to pattern-recognize - he is better at seeing the obvious, immediate stuff, and then talking hockey talk and image management. He has minimal strategic capability. People of his type may occasionally see a pattern they think is solid, and they'll run with that one pattern stubbornly and won't really be open to other suggestions.

I don't see him getting fired unless we're healthy in the playoffs and we lose in 4 or 5 games. He's too good at schmoozing the owner.

Not disagreeing with your whole post, but I thought that Benn was pretty good last night. Good positional and good delays, switches and exits. He even had a couple of offensive forays which tells me he wants to do whatever he can to help us win. A guy who performs well in times of desperation is important - I'd have him in over Poolman or Forbort without a doubt

 

[surixon]

Well reading this thread was... something.

I thought the Jets played really hard last night. I didn't see a team that quit on their coach, I saw a team that overplayed situations and were to aggressive on a few occasions.

I saw desperation to win. The problem is Hellebuyck is struggling a bit right now and we're missing defensive assignments against players that feast on that kind of stuff. I'm also seeing some of our key offensive players struggling with their confidence.

Couple that with our best offensive and defensive forwards out of the lineup and you get what we've seen the past few games.

I thought the Jets played hard up to the last whistle, I saw no quit.

They don't play smart or as Stastny says stick to the fundamentals. They play a very stupid brand of hockey and most are cheating all over the ice.

Effort isn't the only thing that tells you if they believe in their coach or not. Them not adhering to any type of systems is another indicator that they aren't listening to their coach.

 

[Atoyot]

Ok, now that game may of looked pretty bad
But watching some of it again, and .......uh, still looks bad

Thought that with Nik and Lurch out, the team was going to step it up. Sometimes drinking is better than thinking.

Rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

 

[Jet]

People follow the leaders. I have been saying it for a while now your team leaders need to best exhibit the style of game and attention to detail that you want our of your group. When they deviate and cheat it just gives other players a license to do just that. Why should they adhere to the system when the teams best players get to flaunt it.

I don't think you can say Blake Wheeler cheats. That guy is all effort every shift

 

[surixon]

I don't think you can say Blake Wheeler cheats. That guy is all effort every shift

He used to be, he is now sucking wind on the back check a lot these days and is failing to get back in time. That might be more on the coach for using him in roles he can no longer handle.

 

[Jet]

I didn’t watch the whole game, but thought Appleton looked quite good.

More physical than I've seen him to this point. If Vesalainen wants a permanent spot on this team he should start using that big body every shift

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Are we playing the cliche game? We have been shit the last 20 and are .500 in our last 24.

We are in violent agreement.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Well reading this thread was... something.

I thought the Jets played really hard last night. I didn't see a team that quit on their coach, I saw a team that overplayed situations and were to aggressive on a few occasions.

I saw desperation to win. The problem is Hellebuyck is struggling a bit right now and we're missing defensive assignments against players that feast on that kind of stuff. I'm also seeing some of our key offensive players struggling with their confidence.

Couple that with our best offensive and defensive forwards out of the lineup and you get what we've seen the past few games.

I thought the Jets played hard up to the last whistle, I saw no quit.

I saw a team that looks like it plays hard but plays very stupidly and are always reaching or cheating

How many times last night do we need to let McDavid have premium chances? You have to know he is on the ice and play accordingly but so many times guys are cheating or playing 3 forwards deep or you have a D pinching. The Leafs exploited that and so did the Oilers

Why we are playing the stupid man to man in the D zone is beyond me. It just drains the team physically chasing guys all over the ice that we have nothing when we do go on offense. It also leads to so many wacky chances around our net that both goalies are constantly working while NOT making a save

Maurice MO has always been to play it safe and always leads to him getting him fired. Playing the same old bums on D, playing the same tired systems and relegating youth to the press box.

Yes this is a tired team. But a team that works hard and is trying doesn't get shelled 6 to 1. They better get shit worked out fast or we are getting bounced in 4 games in the playoffs and it won't matter who we play

 

[surixon]

I saw a team that looks like it plays hard but plays very stupidly and are always reaching or cheating

How many times last night do we need to let McDavid have premium chances? You have to know he is on the ice and play accordingly but so many times guys are cheating or playing 3 forwards deep or you have a D pinching. The Leafs exploited that and so did the Oilers

Why we are playing the stupid man to man in the D zone is beyond me. It just drains the team physically chasing guys all over the ice that we have nothing when we do go on offense. It also leads to so many wacky chances around our net that both goalies are constantly working while NOT making a save

Maurice MO has always been to play it safe and always leads to him getting him fired. Playing the same old bums on D, playing the same tired systems and relegating youth to the press box.

Yes this is a tired team. But a team that works hard and is trying doesn't get shelled 6 to 1. They better get shit worked out fast or we are getting bounced in 4 games in the playoffs and it won't matter who we play

Well said, couldn't agree more.

 

[DRW204]

last 20 games this team is 10-9-1. 0.525 pts% / 18th in the NHL. Did not realize they had been that up and down.

 

[Jet]

They don't play smart or as Stastny says stick to the fundamentals. They play a very stupid brand of hockey and most are cheating all over the ice.

Effort isn't the only thing that tells you if they believe in their coach or not. Them not adhering to any type of systems is another indicator that they aren't listening to their coach.

I'm not saying they are playing smart - obviously they are not. This story has been told in hockey time and time again through history. It's one of the states that a hockey team enters through a season. Ups and downs, in energy, confidence, sentiment. Great teams, bad teams, teams with legendary coaches and awful coaches.

I'm not saying we should keep Maurice - I've always been of the mind that I wouldn't be crushed if we made a coaching change. I'd bet theres a coach out there that could get more out of this team, and I'd bet there are coaches out there who would do worse.

I've been on very good teams that have played like this, and being a player in this situation you are so frustrated. You want to do all you can to help the team win. You start playing outside yourself, outside the team, outside the system, which just exacerbates the problem. You come to the bench absolutely spent every shift yet you get nothing accomplished on the ice. You make a good play but because your teammates are also playing that way they are not where they are supposed to be, or they end up turning the puck over.

Hockey is incredibly complex. I feel like this team has the components to be very good. A coaching change sometimes is just a way to reset, or, re-examine the systems being used. It's going to take a lot of work on this team's psyche to get them back on track, I hope our remaining 9 games is enough time.

 

[scelaton]

Well reading this thread was... something.

I thought the Jets played really hard last night. I didn't see a team that quit on their coach, I saw a team that overplayed situations and were to aggressive on a few occasions.

I saw desperation to win. The problem is Hellebuyck is struggling a bit right now and we're missing defensive assignments against players that feast on that kind of stuff. I'm also seeing some of our key offensive players struggling with their confidence.

Couple that with our best offensive and defensive forwards out of the lineup and you get what we've seen the past few games.

I thought the Jets played hard up to the last whistle, I saw no quit.

"Show me a (great goalie) and I will show you a (great coach)".
Variation: Insert (bad goalie) and (bad team=terrible coach).
Last 4 starts Helle has been .880, .500, .917, .739 And now the world is ending.

I'm not impressed with Scheifele's game lately, but the conspiracy theories are ridiculous. The fact is that he is not at McDavid's or Matthews' level and has been exposed by the convergence of being in a slump, without D or G or other Fs to help carry the team.

 

[Jet]

He used to be, he is now sucking wind on the back check a lot these days and is failing to get back in time. That might be more on the coach for using him in roles he can no longer handle.

I disagree. There was one backcheck in particular where one of our defensemen got trapped on a bad pinch AGAIN and Wheeler matched RNH speed and engaged him right to the front of the net, eliminating a scoring chance.

Blake Wheeler does not quit.

 

[surixon]

I'm not saying they are playing smart - obviously they are not. This story has been told in hockey time and time again through history. It's one of the states that a hockey team enters through a season. Ups and downs, in energy, confidence, sentiment. Great teams, bad teams, teams with legendary coaches and awful coaches.

I'm not saying we should keep Maurice - I've always been of the mind that I wouldn't be crushed if we made a coaching change. I'd bet theres a coach out there that could get more out of this team, and I'd bet there are coaches out there who would do worse.

I've been on very good teams that have played like this, and being a player in this situation you are so frustrated. You want to do all you can to help the team win. You start playing outside yourself, outside the team, outside the system, which just exacerbates the problem. You come to the bench absolutely spent every shift yet you get nothing accomplished on the ice. You make a good play but because your teammates are also playing that way they are not where they are supposed to be, or they end up turning the puck over.

Hockey is incredibly complex. I feel like this team has the components to be very good. A coaching change sometimes is just a way to reset, or, re-examine the systems being used. It's going to take a lot of work on this team's psyche to get them back on track, I hope our remaining 9 games is enough time.

Oh I get all of this, my problem is that even earlier in the year or last year this team hasn't been all that good system wise. Heck we haven't seen this team fully dialed in since the mid point of the 18-19 season. Even when playing well we don't play very good and sustainable hockey.

If this team showed actual good adherence to systems at any point the last year and a half I'd be much more inclined to ride the bump out. I've seen enough from this coaching staff. As mentioned in the coaching thread the Moose lately are a good example of how this team could look like if they actually played good fundamental hockey within their systems. I have seen nothing on the Jets that resembles that kind of buy in and execution and that to me falls on the coaching staff.

 

[Buffdog]

I think lowry and ehlers being out last night emphasized how important those two are to our team. One is the straw that stirs the drink defensively, the other offensively.

The line combos we we forced into resulted in 2 2nd lines and arguably 2 4th lines against a team running 2 1st lines.

Really we need lowrys line to tie up one of their top lines by smothering them and another one of PLD/Schiefs line to tie up the other by threatening offense and keeping the luck out of our end. Usually Maurice will use whatever line ehlers ISN'T on for that, and try to set up his line to feast vs the bottom two lines on the other team.

On top of that, we need helly to make more saves than he ought to.

I think that's the only recipe for success this team has.

 

[Jet]

Oh I get all of this, my problem is that even earlier in the year or last year this team hasn't been all that good system wise. Heck we haven't seen this team fully dialed in since the mid point of the 18-19 season. Even when playing well we don't play very good and sustainable hockey.

If this team showed actual good adherence to systems at any point the last year and a half I'd be much more inclined to ride the bump out. I've seen enough from this coaching staff. As mentioned in the coaching thread the Moose lately are a good example of how this team could look like if they actually played good fundamental hockey within their systems. I have seen nothing on the Jets that resembles that kind of buy in and execution and that to me falls on the coaching staff.

Can't argue with that. All I'd say is our talent was overcoming some of these deficiencies in systems execution and right now, they aren't playing well enough to do that (read: Hellebuyck, Scheifele, Connor, Stasny, Wheeler, Pionk, Morrissey)

 

[cbcwpg]

Paul Stastny felt his team’s play had been slipping since before the losing skid began, dating back to an extended stretch of games prior, where things began to get a bit loose.

How does that happen at a time when the teams jockeying for position with them are finding another gear?

“I think it’s because we were getting away with it. When you’re winning games, you forget the bad plays and you usually remember what went in and the outcome of the game,” said Stastny. “Every time you play a team and play them two times a week, you’re kind of so focused on that then you turn a page and kind of forget who you played last time and now it’s a new team. It’s more of us players holding each other accountable. It’s everybody, it’s not just certain guys. I think everybody’s got a little cheat in their game and we’ve got to be more honest with ourselves. Especially this time of year.”

Jets forced to regroup on multiple fronts during late-season meltdown

 

[FonRiesen]

Not disagreeing with your whole post, but I thought that Benn was pretty good last night. Good positional and good delays, switches and exits. He even had a couple of offensive forays which tells me he wants to do whatever he can to help us win. A guy who performs well in times of desperation is important - I'd have him in over Poolman or Forbort without a doubt

In my view, we can get away with playing one of those 3 without an undue drop in performance, and I'd be okay with either a rested Forbort or Benn - though it's all a really low bar competition...

2/3 playing, then we need "above average Helle" +either Lowsy or Ehlers, and with all 3 in we're not beating Edmonton without both Lowsy +Ehlers +Vezina Helle and even then it'll be low odds. Unless the coach implements a whole new strategy.

 

[Jet]

Paul Stastny felt his team’s play had been slipping since before the losing skid began, dating back to an extended stretch of games prior, where things began to get a bit loose.

How does that happen at a time when the teams jockeying for position with them are finding another gear?

“I think it’s because we were getting away with it. When you’re winning games, you forget the bad plays and you usually remember what went in and the outcome of the game,” said Stastny. “Every time you play a team and play them two times a week, you’re kind of so focused on that then you turn a page and kind of forget who you played last time and now it’s a new team. It’s more of us players holding each other accountable. It’s everybody, it’s not just certain guys. I think everybody’s got a little cheat in their game and we’ve got to be more honest with ourselves. Especially this time of year.”

Jets forced to regroup on multiple fronts during late-season meltdown

This is so insightful. Stas is a smart player, definitely going to be a coach after I think.