Post-Game Talk: Jets neutered, lose 6-1

[LowLefty]

What if Maurice's message sucks? Schief's attitude might be our best hope to getting a coach that can elevate this team...

Scheif is flat out lazy - that's what sucks and there is no excuse for it including a coach that held him accountable - once.

 

[GumbyCan2]

As I said. when you have DeMel in your top 4....you have an awful defense and good teams will take advantage. Benn added nothing and was a horrible horrible panic move. for the sake of making a move....yay.

we need at least 1 top 2 d and probably another top 4 D .

Failing to address the problem and trying to drop a bunch of 6-7 D-men into our top 4 as a "fix" has left us exactly where I repeatedly have suggested...on the outside looking in.

This, add to the I'm the best player attitude (55) with showing slacking, lacking compete in a complete game, extended his own shifts 20 to 30 seconds longer than his linemates, not producing when staying out longer, is throwing all the lines off, icetime, unit cohesiveness, readiness of next lines and line-matching opponents is thrown off. Let him pout, display "I don't agree with this" publicly, whatever. Take your criticism for reality and work on improving, or bitch your spoiled internal attitude (if that is what he really feels) into the summer and onto the trade wire! We could get our top-RHS Dman we desparately need!

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

The boys gotta put that one behind them and get back to playing Winnipeg Jets hockey.

lol

Whats that? Blowing 2 goal leads in the second half of the third?

 

[surixon]

Hard to take this analysis seriously when Wheeler is literally 4th in the NHL in primary assists on the powerplay over the last three years. How can you say a 19 year old who has played zero NHL games is clearly better?

He has the skill to be better based on what I've seen. He may not be better right away but he has a multidimensional tool set and has excelled as a PP QB at every level. As a draft plus 1 rookie he is second in the AHL in PP points. Also Wheeler isn't even playing a QB role on the pp this year. The tactic would be to leave Wheeler where he is.

It wasn't meant as a slight against Wheeler in the least. Keep in mind Wheelers pp production only really went up when we had to lethal right shots for him to pass to. We don't have that now and need to rejig.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Injuries, you know that is what the org will use to keep Maurice around when it clearly isn't working with him any longer.

Not enough injuries to use that excuse. None to our D.

 

[Hunter368]

Not enough injuries to use that excuse. None to our D.

Based on some of Chevy more pointed comments this year, unlike previous years......I suspect Chevy believes he’s given PMO some very good tools (not perfect) to get the job done......I think PMO is seeing more expectations from his boss and knows there is pressure to win......I think that’s why have seen PMO do some none PMO moves this year, especially recently.

I’m not a huge believer in coaches in general, it’s often six of one or a half dozen of other said in a different voice that’s all. I like PMO in many ways but have always said he’s not perfect by any means and I’m at the point now that I want to hear a different voice.

Plus I agree with you, the only big team weakness is defence and our defence has been healthy more or less all year so that’s not an excuse.

 

[LowLefty]

I saw a team that looks like it plays hard but plays very stupidly and are always reaching or cheating

How many times last night do we need to let McDavid have premium chances? You have to know he is on the ice and play accordingly but so many times guys are cheating or playing 3 forwards deep or you have a D pinching. The Leafs exploited that and so did the Oilers

Why we are playing the stupid man to man in the D zone is beyond me. It just drains the team physically chasing guys all over the ice that we have nothing when we do go on offense. It also leads to so many wacky chances around our net that both goalies are constantly working while NOT making a save

Maurice MO has always been to play it safe and always leads to him getting him fired. Playing the same old bums on D, playing the same tired systems and relegating youth to the press box.

Yes this is a tired team. But a team that works hard and is trying doesn't get shelled 6 to 1. They better get shit worked out fast or we are getting bounced in 4 games in the playoffs and it won't matter who we play

Very true - it does leave you very tired.
I think the man to man is supposed to be about actually catching up with the one you are chasing - you then hit them and take the puck back. Catching them also slows the cycle down quite a bit - in fact, it shuts it down.
If you can't catch them and you can't take the puck and turn it around, you will struggle with the man to man - and you'll struggle with every other D system.
We don't play physical - and we don't play hard on the puck. Some of that is due to lack of talent - some is due to laziness.

 

[BoneDocUK]

I'm very bullish on our young talent but the team as it is right now is completely dysfunctional. I don't want either around the team the way its playing right now. As talented as both are neither are going to kick our vets into gear and be able to carry the load.

Once the team is playing better is the time to insert them.

Embarrassing our vets by playing raw rookies over them is likely to not have the desired effect and will likely cost our coach what ever pull he still has with the players.

I don't want Perfetti anywhere near this team right now either. It took him a while to get adjusted to the AHL, but he's killing it right now. There is no sense in bringing him up to a dysfunctional and unstructured team that can teach him bad habits and kill his confidence, especially since he probably wouldn't contribute much in the re-adjustment period. He can stay where he is, let him cook a while longer. Heinola has been ready for the big show for a while, no complaints there. I wouldn't bring Samberg in until the time is right next year either.

Agree -- I am a big Perfetti believer but he's developing well in the A and looks to be well-supported there by coaches and teammates. Bringing him up for a game as a reward for his play is one thing, but looking to him for leadership in the middle of a team reset is asking for trouble, IMO -- he'll get the Heinola/ Ves/ Harkins PB treatment, and leaning to "play the right way" under PoMo isn't a great idea for a player who's already doing it (the right way -- not necessarily the PoMo-approved way).

Much as I love Heinola, I kinda feel the same way about him, although I think he comes in and helps right away, as he would have back in January. But I'd hate to see his poise and creativity coached out of him in ultra-conservative PoMo playoff conditions.

Not sure anyone we have in the bullpen helps the team shift that elusive "gear" at this point in the season, although I thought Ves and Harkins both played strong games last night.

Also -- why the eff didn't Brossoit start last night?

 

[surixon]

Scheif is flat out lazy - that's what sucks and there is no excuse for it including a coach that held him accountable - once.

Don't know what happened to him because you'd be laughed out of the boards if you said he was lazy the first 5 years of his career. It's sadly now a very adapt descriptor of his play.

Not excusing anything but to me there is far too much complacency on this roster. The first decision is to change the message and the second is to ship out the lazy playes.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Based on some of Chevy more pointed comments this year, unlike previous years......I suspect Chevy believes he’s given PMO some very good tools (not perfect) to get the job done......I think PMO is seeing more expectations from his boss and knows there is pressure to win......I think that’s why have seen PMO do some none PMO moves this year, especially recently.

I’m not a huge believer in coaches in general, it’s often six of one or a half dozen of other said in a different voice that’s all. I like PMO in many ways but have always said he’s not perfect by any means and I’m at the point now that I want to hear a different voice.

Plus I agree with you, the only big team weakness is defence and our defence has been healthy more or less all year so that’s not an excuse.

Maurice is an average coach, a mediocre coach. A win some lose some coach.

The odds are that a coaching change will get us a new coach the same as the old coach. There will be a small chance of significantly better or worse.

But I am ready for a new voice. Maurice has grown stale. I have been ready for a new voice for about 2 years now.

I wonder if Vincent's history of working with young players might make him a little less committed to vetiness than most coaches?

 

[surixon]

Maurice is an average coach, a mediocre coach. A win some lose some coach.

The odds are that a coaching change will get us a new coach the same as the old coach. There will be a small chance of significantly better or worse.

But I am ready for a new voice. Maurice has grown stale. I have been ready for a new voice for about 2 years now.

I wonder if Vincent's history of working with young players might make him a little less committed to vetiness than most coaches?

I think that will depend on how much of a leash he thinks he has. I trust Vincent to have a better read on his players strengths and weaknesses then Moe and construct a game plan accordingly. Whether he is able to get buy in with Millioniar athletes and be able to adapt to NHL competition and coaching is another.

Vincent has a very impressive junior coaching record and has done really well with his development mandate for the Moose. I believe he has coach of the year awards in both leagues which tells me he is highly respected. I think people are a bit sour on him because of his stint as one of our assistants back when we didn't have a alot of talent to work with. From what I have seen he can run a darn good pp in the AHL when he has the pieces to work with.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Paul Stastny felt his team’s play had been slipping since before the losing skid began, dating back to an extended stretch of games prior, where things began to get a bit loose.

How does that happen at a time when the teams jockeying for position with them are finding another gear?

“I think it’s because we were getting away with it. When you’re winning games, you forget the bad plays and you usually remember what went in and the outcome of the game,” said Stastny. “Every time you play a team and play them two times a week, you’re kind of so focused on that then you turn a page and kind of forget who you played last time and now it’s a new team. It’s more of us players holding each other accountable. It’s everybody, it’s not just certain guys. I think everybody’s got a little cheat in their game and we’ve got to be more honest with ourselves. Especially this time of year.”

Jets forced to regroup on multiple fronts during late-season meltdown

A lot on this board have been saying the same thing essentially for quite a while...... a couple of years actually. Our record is far better than it should be based on our play. I think we have been bailed out by Helle for a long time.

This team has a LOT of talent even with the injuries. That is no excuse for their play.

 

[Atoyot]

Scheif is flat out lazy - that's what sucks and there is no excuse for it including a coach that held him accountable - once.

If he's being lazy and the coach is telling him he's doing great and saying in the media that he's doing great and is great defensively why would he change anything? He doesn't care for analytics, so what would matter to him more than Maurice's approval? He doesn't know he's doing bad because the person that matters is telling him he's doing good. He's also doing bad because the person who matters refuses to acknowledge what Scheifele's bad at and is utilising him in situations that exposes his weaknesses, rather than plays to his strengths. Sure it's not completely on Maurice but he should shoulder some of the blame for this and allowing his players fall to the level of complacency that they're at.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Jets are either tanking further toward done, or they address a couple immediate issues and tryingly turn things around. Standing pat, not benching a player or 2, bringing up your youth future stars to show what they have, change the scenery of our current downward spiral efforts/roster is the kiss of death for future improvement. And the fan base likely turns on all the management and coaching for sure.
This summer definitive and thought out change in a couple, few areas have to come.
Going into start of next season the overall future with immediate decisions need to be addressed.
I lean toward a Coaching voice, mentality and face(s) change.

 

[Jet]

You must have me on ignore.

LOL who?

 

[surixon]

If he's being lazy and the coach is telling him he's doing great and saying in the media that he's doing great and is great defensively why would he change anything? He doesn't care for analytics, so what would matter to him more than Maurice's approval? He doesn't know he's doing bad because the person that matters is telling him he's doing good. He's also doing bad because the person who matters refuses to acknowledge what Scheifele's bad at and is utilising him in situations that exposes his weaknesses, rather than plays to his strengths. Sure it's not completely on Maurice but he should shoulder some of the blame for this and allowing his players fall to the level of complacency that they're at.

He's let the whole team get away with it and now he has no ability to reel them back in. He's essentially lost control that is if he knows anything is wrong to begin with.

 

[GumbyCan2]

A lot on this board have been saying the same thing essentially for quite a while...... a couple of years actually. Our record is far better than it should be based on our play. I think we have been bailed out by Helle for a long time.

This team has a LOT of talent even with the injuries. That is no excuse for their play.

Very true points. Now that Helle yhas hit a bit of a mental-block wall, the teams weaknesses and inability to really compete with the top dogs in this division are forefront. Sorry Paul and Charlie and company but coaching still has to be impactful and current and a needle on the pulse. Your points clearly expose the downfalls of the coaching attitudes and inputs that exist here. If it is your star player, players then it needs addressing more critically so than with fringe, minor role players. Covering up and smoothing over in the public is more harmful than even doing very little. It is not addressing the issue(s) with any positive change attempt, like doing virtually nothing. But the further downfall is " entitlement, I am not doing wrong, I am still good even if team is not doing so, its you not me" syndromes and attitudes resonate.

 

[Weezeric]

Don't know what happened to him because you'd be laughed out of the boards if you said he was lazy the first 5 years of his career. It's sadly now a very adapt descriptor of his play.

Not excusing anything but to me there is far too much complacency on this roster. The first decision is to change the message and the second is to ship out the lazy playes.

Agreed, although I don’t know if it’s laziness per say.

In my view, there’s been too much consistency in the forward group here. I think if you have the same group for too long, you develop bad habits. Apart from switching Laine for PLD, which is fairly recent, how long has it been with essentially the same top 9? 5 years? Thats too long. I would like to see some change this offseason, regardless of what happens in the playoffs. Things are getting a bit stale.

 

[surixon]

Agreed, although I don’t know if it’s laziness per say.

In my view, there’s been too much consistency in the forward group here. I think if you have the same group for too long, you develop bad habits. Apart from switching Laine for PLD, which is fairly recent, how long has it been with essentially the same top 9? 5 years? Thats too long. I would like to see some change this offseason, regardless of what happens in the playoffs. Things are getting a bit stale.

Yeah I think you see some changes. It might just be that you have to bump Wheeler to a third scoring line and promote/bring in some different elements:

I wouldn't mind seeing something like this:

Vesalainen Scheifele Ehelers
Conner Dubois acquisition (physical speedste)
Copp Perfetti Wheeler (vets to shelter the kid)
Perrault Lowry Appelton

 

[voyageur]

If he's being lazy and the coach is telling him he's doing great and saying in the media that he's doing great and is great defensively why would he change anything? He doesn't care for analytics, so what would matter to him more than Maurice's approval? He doesn't know he's doing bad because the person that matters is telling him he's doing good. He's also doing bad because the person who matters refuses to acknowledge what Scheifele's bad at and is utilising him in situations that exposes his weaknesses, rather than plays to his strengths. Sure it's not completely on Maurice but he should shoulder some of the blame for this and allowing his players fall to the level of complacency that they're at.

I've never seen a board so critical of a top 10 scorer. While I think Maurice is losing his grip, mostly because he doesn't have a great roster. 3 bonafide scorers, an aging captain who is becoming more of a PP than a 5 on 5 threat, who also has had his bell rung with no internal response, except the smallest guy on the team going after the other teams captain, and Dubois throwing some weight around.

Dubois is not living up to expectations. As a game breaker.

We're stuck playing a good centre on the wing, who was having early season success, because of pressure, from who I am not sure. But he doesn't have the wheels to play wing effectively in Maurice's system. Copp has been good at times, but has had some mediocre stretches. Our 3rd line has been good, but no Lowry we're never as good. Another cheap shot without retribution.

4th line getting the job done, especially on the PK, but Mo is forced to play Harkins for the expansion draft right now.

Would like to see Ves-Gus but separately neither have done anything special, above a 4th line impact.

So it's not the deepest team, and the defense is showing wear down the stretch. And Helly is looking tired. Taking Stanley out of the lineup is my biggest problem with Maurice because it makes no sense whatsoever.

But I don't think this team is great, there is starpower, but the defense, which will win championships, is lacking. And finding chemistry on the forward lines is not an easy thing to do, especially if your hands are tied. By management and player preferences.

Ultimately if Maurice goes, it will be the players, including Scheif who failed him, not him failing the players.

 

[surixon]

I've never seen a board so critical of a top 10 scorer. While I think Maurice is losing his grip, mostly because he doesn't have a great roster. 3 bonafide scorers, an aging captain who is becoming more of a PP than a 5 on 5 threat, who also has had his bell rung with no internal response, except the smallest guy on the team going after the other teams captain, and Dubois throwing some weight around.

Dubois is not living up to expectations. As a game breaker.

We're stuck playing a good centre on the wing, who was having early season success, because of pressure, from who I am not sure. But he doesn't have the wheels to play wing effectively in Maurice's system. Copp has been good at times, but has had some mediocre stretches. Our 3rd line has been good, but no Lowry we're never as good. Another cheap shot without retribution.

4th line getting the job done, especially on the PK, but Mo is forced to play Harkins for the expansion draft right now.

Would like to see Ves-Gus but separately neither have done anything special, above a 4th line impact.

So it's not the deepest team, and the defense is showing wear down the stretch. And Helly is looking tired. Taking Stanley out of the lineup is my biggest problem with Maurice because it makes no sense whatsoever.

But I don't think this team is great, there is starpower, but the defense, which will win championships, is lacking. And finding chemistry on the forward lines is not an easy thing to do, especially if your hands are tied. By management and player preferences.

Ultimately if Maurice goes, it will be the players, including Scheif who failed him, not him failing the players.

The team is good enough to look competent on the ice and is capable of actually playing a system. If Maurice goes it will be a combination of the players no longer listening to him and him not being able to get them to play well.

Sometimes the message gets old and no longer resonates and people get to complacent in their situations. A new voice can shake things up and hopefully get everyone back engaged and moving in the same direction.

 

[GumbyCan2]

I don't want Perfetti anywhere near this team right now either. It took him a while to get adjusted to the AHL, but he's killing it right now. There is no sense in bringing him up to a dysfunctional and unstructured team that can teach him bad habits and kill his confidence, especially since he probably wouldn't contribute much in the re-adjustment period. He can stay where he is, let him cook a while longer. Heinola has been ready for the big show for a while, no complaints there. I wouldn't bring Samberg in until the time is right next year either.

Your right there and it got me to understand some reasoning for PLD's "not lighting it up here" yet. He is trying to learn new personalities, team vibes, coaching style, his fit and role, what he should add, and leafn the new system(s).
Well, when you have entitled leadership getting away with certain bad habits and a head coach who publicly states that he doesn't apply coaching to most of his top players. What do you expect out of a young, potential star who has been through a whirwind in his first pro intro? Constantly having a different linemate here, so far, or getting shafted on regular icetime because those "ahead of you are bring chosen or chose to not come off fairly, etc.
Just like bringing Perfetti up to this "disarray, out of control show" would be detrimental likely, this is probably affecting PLD more than most realize.
Last 3 games have turned into more and more of a _hit-show, with poor goaltenfing it totally shucks!
I don't blame PLD for his not showing fully his capabilities yet. He can be blamed for his on-ice misreads or puck fumbles but overall likely affected by the underlying problems (coaching, systems, accountability and management input, views).

 

[GumbyCan2]

Very true - it does leave you very tired.
I think the man to man is supposed to be about actually catching up with the one you are chasing - you then hit them and take the puck back. Catching them also slows the cycle down quite a bit - in fact, it shuts it down.
If you can't catch them and you can't take the puck and turn it around, you will struggle with the man to man - and you'll struggle with every other D system.
We don't play physical - and we don't play hard on the puck. Some of that is due to lack of talent - some is due to laziness.

Thus, alot of it is do to coaching, and lack there of where/ when needed, especially on our top players this season!

 

[DRW204]

You must have me on ignore.

must have missed your posts. sorry

 

[Atoyot]

I've never seen a board so critical of a top 10 scorer. While I think Maurice is losing his grip, mostly because he doesn't have a great roster. 3 bonafide scorers, an aging captain who is becoming more of a PP than a 5 on 5 threat, who also has had his bell rung with no internal response, except the smallest guy on the team going after the other teams captain, and Dubois throwing some weight around.

Dubois is not living up to expectations. As a game breaker.

We're stuck playing a good centre on the wing, who was having early season success, because of pressure, from who I am not sure. But he doesn't have the wheels to play wing effectively in Maurice's system. Copp has been good at times, but has had some mediocre stretches. Our 3rd line has been good, but no Lowry we're never as good. Another cheap shot without retribution.

4th line getting the job done, especially on the PK, but Mo is forced to play Harkins for the expansion draft right now.

Would like to see Ves-Gus but separately neither have done anything special, above a 4th line impact.

So it's not the deepest team, and the defense is showing wear down the stretch. And Helly is looking tired. Taking Stanley out of the lineup is my biggest problem with Maurice because it makes no sense whatsoever.

But I don't think this team is great, there is starpower, but the defense, which will win championships, is lacking. And finding chemistry on the forward lines is not an easy thing to do, especially if your hands are tied. By management and player preferences.

Ultimately if Maurice goes, it will be the players, including Scheif who failed him, not him failing the players.

I've said it a million times, Scheifele is bad defensively and that's fine, I'm okay with it, it's what he is. The issue is that he's utilized as if he's good defensively. You can acknowledge it and use him effectively in spite of it, or you can acknowledge it and work on it. Right now it's not acknowledged, and he's utilized as if it's not an issue. He gets caved in when he plays against top talent like McDavid and Matthews and they have the puck so much during those matchups that Scheifele is neutered offensively. So it hurts the team both offensively and defensively, since he's not good enough to limit their chances and he can't produce offensively because the other team always has the puck when he's on. This is a massive problem since, as you said, he's a top scorer. We need him to score.

What's the McDavid vs Scheifele matchup after last night? Because going into last night it was 8 goals for Edmonton to 1 goal for Winnipeg when they're both on the ice.

EDIT: 10-1 after last night.

EDIT2: For comparison, Lowry is 5-1 head to head, but 2 of those were seconds after an Edmonton powerplay had expired. And then it also in theory frees up Scheifele to be more successful offensively elsewhere.