Post-Game Talk: Jets lose somehow, 6-5 Wild

[MrBoJangelz71]

My mid January early February Jets related stomach ulcers are now appearing in October.
Not good.

 

[BigHulkingThickV]

This team is toxic. There is some sort of evil that is pervasive in this team, something that causes them to be incredibly poor late in the game. I'm starting to get used to it, it's more likely than not that if this team has a lead, they are going to squander it in the last 2 minutes of the third.

With that being said, I think a coaching change is what has the best chance of healing this ailment.

With that also being said, Vesalainen played a solid game. Everyone liked that.

 

[LowLefty]

I really enjoyed this game - not happy about the loss and a single point but liked the speed that was lacking in the first two game and thought our offense was coming around.
Lots of good things to carry into the next game - IMO

 

[BoneDocUK]

Shout-out to that 3rd line -- thought they had a strong game and made some nice chances. Would have been nice to see them (or the 4th) rewarded with some icetime late. Thought Svetch also had some good runs of play, but that bobble offside might have sealed his fate, icetime-wise.

So, a few bright spots yet to be extinguished by benching/ demotion/ "load management."

 

[DRW204]

If you are a neutral fan, that was a fun game. I would have been positively thrilled if I weren't a Jets fan. Instead, I'm left frustrated because of lack of focus in the final few minutes of the game. 3 inches took what was the sure win into a bounce-laden tying goal and overtime victory. Again, fun if you're a neutral fan.

Oh, way to unbalance the lineup and protect Cole Perfetti so you could play a 7th D for 4 minutes. Really f***ing galaxy brained yourself in that one, Maurice.

Kirill Kaprizov is somebody I'm not used to seeing on the Wild - young and skilled. They're usually a team of beneficial grinders. How dare they have somebody electric playing on their top line. Why can't we have someone like that on our top line?

It's interesting how well that top line played with Andrew Copp, as opposed to a boat anchor shell of his former self. I love Blake Wheeler and everything he's done for the organisation, but please let him have his minutes reduced so he can preserve what's left of his game. Quit playing him on the f***ing top line. Quit playing him on the PK.

RILEY f***ING NASH on PP1. Are you f***ing kidding me? Really? The guy who you signed to be a fourth line defensive specialist? You're putting that on the power play. The PK is still f***ing dreadful, and the power play is equally bad.

Here I thought divorcing myself from my emotions would make me less irritated about the Jets.

agreed. this was actually a very exciting game. this was a game i thought the Jets played better than compared to the 2 cali teams. MIN is a formidable opponent. not sure about their goaltending, but like usual they play good collectively.

Kaprizov was impressive you can see the skill in his stick handling and shiftiness. same with JEE who was the best player on both sides, he could be a selke candidate if his point totals take another step. he's great all-around.

having said that, this game was an over-turned offside call away from being a Jets W and the tone would be a bit different here. obviously there are things the team needs to improve on (pk, pp, and the defensive group i think is still no bueno), but atleast we didn't collect 0 pts against bottom-feeders?

Nash getting more PP TOI than Ehlers , lol.

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

I'm finally on board with firing Maurice. I've been open to it for a while but how a team with a full tc and strong roster can look so wholly unprepared to play a hockey game is beyond me. It's time for a change

Agree. MO Must GO!

 

[surixon]

Anyhow now that I've slept on it there are some positives:

Jets played with more speed most of the night

The third line looked good and the latest composition fits what Moe wants on that line so they were effective at cycling the puck.

Dubois continues his good play and once Ehlers gets going that line should excel.

Copp doesn't fit with Dubois and Ehlers but his game meshes well with Conner/Scheifele's more north/south cycle based offense.

Issues for me with the group are more defensive systems and PK systems. Both needed to be discarded this past offseason.

 

[tbcwpg]

I have. I have seen him in 3 NHL games - almost half of his NHL games LOL. Helle seems worse than Comrie right now.

In a thread of hot takes this is certainly one.

 

[bustamente]

For me last night I saw a nice well rounded line in Lowry, Harkins and Vesalainen, they controlled the boards and played well defensively hope they stay together. Riley Nash brings nothing to this lineup but we all pretty well knew this and Stastny looks to be done. For all the hype of the D adds the defensive play and strategy is a mess. Helle better get on the stick again or this team will be done early

 

[kylbaz]

I'm finally on board with firing Maurice. I've been open to it for a while but how a team with a full tc and strong roster can look so wholly unprepared to play a hockey game is beyond me. It's time for a change

I've been on board for a couple years now, especially after looking so silly vs Montreal and making zero changes. And when Wheeler is back and on first line again it makes it even worse.
That being said this team just needs a few games to gel. I think we'll be alright. Hopefully they do bad enough Maurice gets fired and they turn it around.

 

[CorgisPer60]

I'm finally on board with firing Maurice. I've been open to it for a while but how a team with a full tc and strong roster can look so wholly unprepared to play a hockey game is beyond me. It's time for a change

I've been on board with that for quite some time. It gets mollified when the Jets do better, but there's still the same ineffectual roster decisions. How much of that is cap related or coach related is up for debate.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Just re watching the non power play goals and good lord did we scorched by the hockey gods.

After finally falling asleep and having nightmares all night. I thought I share some thoughts on the game

Schief/Connor/Copp - Over all they were kind of good. Connor was flying. Yes he isn't a defensive beast but man he was forechecking hard and he had real good chemistry with Copp. Copp was in great spots all night. Schief was good and made things happen but he is still just a bit off. Hopefully this line gets a good run

Dubois/Ehlers/Statsny - Didn't like there game. Ehlers had one of his fly by games. Everything can't be about rushing the puck for him, he needs to engage with his linemates on the cycle better. Dubois had a nice goal and I thought he worked hard, still would like to see some more production from him. Stats was solid but he shouldn't be penalty killing

Lowry/Harkins/Vesa - Thought they were good at times but they just didn't get enough time overall. Vesa should be on the powerplay to utilize that shot of his and I see no reason why Harkins shouldn't be pking. Lowry was more engaged last night. After that empty net goal was called back this is the line that should have been out.

Svech/Nash - Ok Nash shouldn't be on that PP for 4+ minutes. He was ok but. Thanks for showing up Svech welcome to the bench.

I want to preface this with saying that none of our D pairings will be successful playing man to man. We are simply out of place for anything that happens randomly in the zone.

We also in the O zone without having a 3rd man high cannot pinch on board plays. The reason the Wild were successful at getting shots and keeping us in was they ALWAYS had a 3rd man high. Your strong side D can pinch the board play all night if you have support like that. We are on the other hand end up with 3 guys below the goal line and your D then has to play really passive which allows easy zone entries.

Overall all the D pairings had the same success and failures as a group because of the play of the forwards. Sometimes it was good and sometimes not so good.

Helly - I thought he was better tonight but man he is getting no puck luck at all. Couple of goals just squeaking in by him that he would have had.

Special teams - Still lack luster IMO. Sure the Wild got some bounces but we basically lost the special teams battle again and lost the game because of it.

Refs - Not that they won or lost the game for us but god they were horrible. How many times are you going to allow the Wild to jab the goalie. Can't remember who did it in the 3rd but he should have been tossed it was a blatant spear. You also can't make that call on Morrissey when you let the same call go on Copp a minute earlier. You basically handed the win to them and didn't let the teams solve it

 

[Huffer]

Continually losing the scoring chance and HDSC battles. New players, same systemic issues it seems.

 

[FonRiesen]

23 games ago was the start of their 7 game losing streak, which started April 17th.

The game before, they beat the Leafs 5-2 in Toronto, moving within 3 points of 1st place in the division. Connors and Ehlers had 2 goals each, both scoring their 20th of the year (in the 44th game), Scheifele had 3 points, and Hellebuyck stopped 31 of 33 (the Jets were outshot 33-24 in the win). That was the last game of a 5 game road trip, and the busiest part of their schedule (3 in 4 nights, and 5 in 8). They were about to start a 5 game home stand, have a 5 day break between games, and finish the year with 9 of the last 12 at home. They hadn’t been playing especially well, but they were 9-4 since the trade deadline and looked poised to overtake the Leafs and face the easier (we thought) matchup in round 1, the Habs or maybe the Flames.

Instead, they just wilted, losing all 5 games at home without hardly putting up a fight: 3-0 to Edmonton, then 5-3 and 4-1 to the Leafs, then 6-1 and 3-1 to Edmonton again.

They’ve been bad ever since. 3 meaningless wins over sad sack teams once the regular season was essentially over (including the 2 shutout blowouts), then 4 close fought wins in the playoffs to knock off the Oilers (all effectively by one goal, the Jets had 2 late EN goals in the 4-1 win in the series opener). And otherwise loss after loss after loss.

Including tonight, when it was 5-3 with 5 minutes left, and 5-4 with Scheifele taking an uncontested shot on an empty net, and 5-5 with Lowry hitting Stanley in stride on a 2-on-1 in overtime.

They’re just bad right now. The team has no confidence in itself. Maurice seems to be out of ideas, if he ever had any. Their special teams are terrible and they’re being outplayed 5-on-5. Hellebuyck is struggling, and has had some bad bounces. And now they’ll be without their captain for 10 days, at least.

I don’t see much reason to be optimistic they’re about to turn things around. I do think they have enough talent to be a good team this year but they might need a hard reset to start playing to their potential. Which could mean a coaching change, as early as mid-November (if they’re still struggling 2 weeks after Wheeler comes back).

I really appreciate the context (I'm shaky at remembering nitty gritty details, which is why I appreciate numbers, and this fits fairly well with my general recollection).

So there was definitely a "pride goes before a fall" factor here - I do remember massive hype. Do you know if there were any injuries?

Last year was so weird, playing the same teams constantly. Very misleading about how good of a team we were - we matched up fairly well against most Canadian teams.

Maurice being out of ideas is key to me. There are certain issues he can handle, but others he's at a complete loss. "The guys aren't skating" isn't a diagnosis of an issue. It's just an observation. (A lot of Western medicine is like this, too - "Chronic Fatigue" isn't identifying a root problem/source that can be addressed, it's merely stating symptoms, and a way for doctors to sound like they're giving an answer when they actually don't know why).

Maurice gives so many "answers" about what went wrong that aren't an actual diagnosis that can be fixed by anything more than "try harder" (which rarely works). A better analysis might be a critique of how our system was taken advantage of; sometimes a loss truly isn't about controllable factors but more the uncontrollable ones (though you can "make your own luck" by increasing opportunities and chances), but after so many years of this I think it's fair to say that our coach isn't holding his cards close to his chest - there's been several interviews where he simply couldn't identify any problems, let alone provide solutions or a pathway forward. "Play the right way" is okay if you're a player following a strategist; not okay for a leader who needs to understand the other team's strategies to counter them.

 

[cbcwpg]

"I had no idea. I thought I was good. Obviously, I looked at it too, I was off-side there. Just one of those things, a little attention to detail by me. It stands out, easy as that"

--- Connor

 

[hockeyarena]

"I had no idea. I thought I was good. Obviously, I looked at it too, I was off-side there. Just one of those things, a little attention to detail by me. It stands out, easy as that"

--- Connor

i like that he took responsibility. watching the replay it's so bad though, he's not even thinking about the game anymore, his mind's already back at the Pal.

 

[Neuf]

I've been on board with that for quite some time. It gets mollified when the Jets do better, but there's still the same ineffectual roster decisions. How much of that is cap related or coach related is up for debate.

Wow...

 

[Royale With Cheese]

I honestly can't even fathom this. Where in the f*** is Chevy and why does he not give his coaching staff some direction?

 

[BoneDocUK]

I really appreciate the context (I'm shaky at remembering nitty gritty details, which is why I appreciate numbers, and this fits fairly well with my general recollection).

So there was definitely a "pride goes before a fall" factor here - I do remember massive hype. Do you know if there were any injuries?

Last year was so weird, playing the same teams constantly. Very misleading about how good of a team we were - we matched up fairly well against most Canadian teams.

Maurice being out of ideas is key to me. There are certain issues he can handle, but others he's at a complete loss. "The guys aren't skating" isn't a diagnosis of an issue. It's just an observation. (A lot of Western medicine is like this, too - "Chronic Fatigue" isn't identifying a root problem/source that can be addressed, it's merely stating symptoms, and a way for doctors to sound like they're giving an answer when they actually don't know why).

Maurice gives so many "answers" about what went wrong that aren't an actual diagnosis that can be fixed by anything more than "try harder" (which rarely works). A better analysis might be a critique of how our system was taken advantage of; sometimes a loss truly isn't about controllable factors but more the uncontrollable ones (though you can "make your own luck" by increasing opportunities and chances), but after so many years of this I think it's fair to say that our coach isn't holding his cards close to his chest - there's been several interviews where he simply couldn't identify any problems, let alone provide solutions or a pathway forward. "Play the right way" is okay if you're a player following a strategist; not okay for a leader who needs to understand the other team's strategies to counter them.

Harumph, says the rheum specialist... We call it "the dark arts" for a reason...

You've definitely hit on something, though. There are plenty of tricky diagnoses in some fields that are tricky because of interlocking symptoms. You'll hear that a precise diagnosis doesn't aways matter b/c adjacent or interleaving conditions are treated in much the same way, with the same therapeutics, etc. Kinda like "playing the right way" is a bromide/ wide-angle therapy for basket of symptoms/ conditions.

But "playing the right way" only makes sense to a player who has a clear understanding of what playing the right way entails" forechecking, aligned routes, covering assignments, looking for a quick exit pass or carry in transition, and so on. It means nothing if players are playing the right way, as they see it, within the wrong systems or set of tactics, or if the coaching staff is mistaking "playing the right way" for playing a smart, efficient, 2-way game plan appropriately tailored to their opponent.

I have no idea what "playing the right way," or "taking care of the details" means to this team, whether it's the coaches or Kevin Freaking Sawyer repeating it like a freaking mantra 279 times a freaking game because it isn't often apparent on the ice when they are doing it or when they aren't.

That suggests a) poor planning or b) poor execution, and 2) can sometimes indicate 1), especially in the case of our woeful Chaos PK, or "hybrid m2m" D system, since players seem unsure of what they're meant to be executing. Whose door should that be laid at?

These issues seem solvable, but they can't afford to take their time working things out in a decent division when they've let 5/6 softer points slip away.

 

[Mooche]

I'm finally on board with firing Maurice. I've been open to it for a while but how a team with a full tc and strong roster can look so wholly unprepared to play a hockey game is beyond me. It's time for a change

 

[TommyKillian]

I want to preface this with saying that none of our D pairings will be successful playing man to man. We are simply out of place for anything that happens randomly in the zone.

I thought this exact thing as well, but don't focus enough on other teams to know why we struggle so much with M2M. Do you have any thoughts on this? Do other teams have success with it? You always have good systems insight.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Agreed. It’s quite obvious that this team lacks overall team defence and consistent effort by our so-called stars. Hearing people blame the officials and bad luck bad bounces is so Toronto Maple Leafs fan esk. We get out chanced every game it seems and most nights get outshot. It’s time to shake this team up with a coaching change.

It's been this way for a long time. Logic tells me that we don't have a team full of lazy, irresponsible players. The main constant has been the coaching. Win or lose, that's where we have to look. From a very passive penalty kill to a defensive system where nobody seems to know who to cover half the time. What's the definition of insanity again? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

 

[surixon]

I thought this exact thing as well, but don't focus enough on other teams to know why we struggle so much with M2M. Do you have any thoughts on this? Do other teams have success with it? You always have good systems insight.

Most other teams place greater emphasis on playing zone defense then M2M. All teams resort to M2M at times but for us we tend to default to it and as such start running around causing confusion for ourselves.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Have to disagree. Sure Chef hesitated or whatever at the blue line, but he's the puck carrier and can do whatever he wants, Connor isn't. Connor passed to Copp who passed to Chef. At that point Connor isn't really even in the play anymore and Connor has one job... don't go offside. I don't think Connor went offside because he wanted to get the puck back to get the hat-trick and was going into the zone too fast...I think he was just watching the play and didn't think where he was on the ice.

The Jets took a guaranteed win after the empty net goal, put it in a pile, poured a 45 gallon drum of gas on it, and lit it up.

As bad as that was, they still had the lead with very little time remaining. They still should have won in regulation... especially when you consider they had a two goal lead with five minutes remaining. The off-side on the empty netter stings, but it's a red herring. It should never have come down to that anyways.

 

[DannyGallivan]

This team is toxic. There is some sort of evil that is pervasive in this team, something that causes them to be incredibly poor late in the game. I'm starting to get used to it, it's more likely than not that if this team has a lead, they are going to squander it in the last 2 minutes of the third.

With that being said, I think a coaching change is what has the best chance of healing this ailment.

With that also being said, Vesalainen played a solid game. Everyone liked that.

...but again he refuses to shoot when he can.