Speculation: Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (Part XVIII)

[Sweech]

Except the majority of those points have been scored while he's playing D on the powerplay or 4 on 4.

So we're losing a powerplay + 4 on 4 weapon. Who is versatile, just to get younger and much, much, much smaller.

Sounds great.

 

[Grind]

I don't see why Montreal would do that. Buff just doesn't have the mojo that he did at forward in 2010 (especially at 5.2 M) and they don't have a need for him on D.

I think that's about the value we're going to get though.

buff at forward in 2010 durign the regular season looked exactly like he does right now. A third line rw whose big.

remind me again why we've effectively traded a top 2 dman for third line rw?
i would much rather see the suggested sheltered d man then useless rw we've gotten.

maybe he's not useless, and he is playing with two guys who havent had much luck, but i still think were a better team with buff moved either A) to another team for a better RW and other pieces or B) to give us crazy depth on D with spot duty at forward.

 

[Huffer]

buff at forward in 2010 durign the regular season looked exactly like he does right now. A third line rw whose big.

remind me again why we've effectively traded a top 2 dman for third line rw?
i would much rather see the suggested sheltered d man then useless rw we've gotten.

maybe he's not useless, and he is playing with two guys who havent had much luck, but i still think were a better team with buff moved either A) to another team for a better RW and other pieces or B) to give us crazy depth on D with spot duty at forward.

I personally have no issue with keeping Buff at forward and seeing how he could do if he had better linemates. It would be interesting to see how a Buff at forward with good linemates, plus him playing D on the PP and 4 on 4 could do for us. The Jets would have to either get a couple of decent UFA's, entice Burmi back, or possibly trade our 1st I think to make this happen. I don't think there is anyone in St. Johns that is ready for the top 9 next year.

I don't really have a problem with trading Buff for a better forward than Buff is, but for that to happen a team has to place a high value of Buff as a D. Not saying there are not teams that would, I do think he has high value as a D, but just saying no one is giving us a better forward than Buff is, if they plan on playing Buff at forward themselves.

The only option I don't personally like, is putting Buff back on D and lessening all of the RHD time (when they are all healthy). IMO, we just have no where near the talent up front to have that luxury. Plus, the org needs to figure out what they are doing with Redmond and Postma as well.

 

[allan5oh]

The only reason he's playing our 3rd line is to balance our lines. Not because there's more talented players ahead of him. He has 10 pts in 14 games as a 3rd line winger, that's pretty good in anyones book.

 

[Flair Hay]

So we're losing a powerplay + 4 on 4 weapon. Who is versatile, just to get younger and much, much, much smaller.

Sounds great.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest you feel someone is going to offer us more than a young, complimentary, top six winger? We might get an add on, but it wouldn't be much. Everyone assumes this sweet package is coming back for Buff and we're simply waiting to pull the trigger...I'm not sold yet.

If you want a meh prospect and a 1st that will take 3-4 years to be as good as Gallagher (or never get there). If that's not your expected return, sorry for guessing. It's all I have to go on to combat the sarcasm smiley

I'm not even convinced we need to trade Buff. I only suggested a player I thought would help the team. While shedding salary, getting a player at a preferred age that can play on lines 1-3.

 

[Sweech]

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest you feel someone is going to offer us more than a young, complimentary, top six winger? We might get an add on, but it wouldn't be much. Everyone assumes this sweet package is coming back for Buff and we're simply waiting to pull the trigger...I'm not sold yet.

If you want a meh prospect and a 1st that will take 3-4 years to be as good as Gallagher (or never get there). If that's not your expected return, sorry for guessing. It's all I have to go on to combat the sarcasm smiley

I'm not even convinced we need to trade Buff. I only suggested a player I thought would help the team. While shedding salary, getting a player at a preferred age that can play on lines 1-3.

Yeah I do think we could do much better in a trade.

Look at how much other players receive in trades when they produce as much as Byfuglien does. It is way more than a Gallagher type player and more than a 1st plus middling prospect.

 

[BigZ65]

So we're losing a powerplay + 4 on 4 weapon. Who is versatile, just to get younger and much, much, much smaller.

Sounds great.

I agree with that. Although I think he'd be much more of a weapon (and likely enhance his trade value while making us a better team) playing limited 5 on 5 minutes on D along with his PP/4 on 4.

I don't think his trade value is nearly as high as the common perception of a top 9 (even top 6) forward and a second pairing LHD. I do not believe that we'll get an offer that would be much more than moving deck chairs.

 

[BigZ65]

Yeah I do think we could do much better in a trade.

Look at how much other players receive in trades when they produce as much as Byfuglien does. It is way more than a Gallagher type player and more than a 1st plus middling prospect.

Their weight doesn't fluctuate between 265-300something along with their effort level shift to shift, and they don't get moved from their productive position. I think those potential red flags are enough to knock him down a few pegs with a lot of teams, whether that stuff is perception or reality.

 

[Flair Hay]

Their weight doesn't fluctuate between 265-300something along with their effort level shift to shift, and they don't get moved from their productive position. I think those potential red flags are enough to knock him down a few pegs with a lot of teams, whether that stuff is perception or reality.

Mind blowing **** right here.

Optimism doesn't hurt I guess. I think his return will dissappoint a lot of people if he is dealt this summer. It's one of the reasons I think Chevy will in the end hang on to him.

 

[Sweech]

Their weight doesn't fluctuate between 265-300something along with their effort level shift to shift, and they don't get moved from their productive position. I think those potential red flags are enough to knock him down a few pegs with a lot of teams, whether that stuff is perception or reality.

Then don't trade him.

If a team doesn't make a substantive offer for a player that produces as much offense as he does there's no reason to move him for sub-par parts.

Weight is completely unsubstantiated and I'm pretty sure no GM is going to get away with haggling down the price because of weight concerns with Chevy. Effort level is also unsubstantiated.

You use his positional flexibility as a redflag. That's a bonus. As such we should be asking more for him, not less.

There's so many players that produce less yet get traded for more than what some are suggesting and they're not without their own red flags either.

 

[BigZ65]

Then don't trade him.

If a team doesn't make a substantive offer for a player that produces as much offense as he does there's no reason to move him for sub-par parts.

Weight is completely unsubstantiated and I'm pretty sure no GM is going to get away with haggling down the price because of weight concerns with Chevy. Effort level is also unsubstantiated.

You use his positional flexibility as a redflag. That's a bonus. As such we should be asking more for him, not less.

There's so many players that produce less yet get traded for more than what some are suggesting and they're not without their own red flags either.

That really depends on the eye of the beholder. I think a lot of teams want certainty when they are mapping out how they will spend their cap dollars/budget. If they spend that money on a guy who might end up being unreliable on D, but hey we can stick him on the 3rd line, that could preclude them from spending that cap/budget space and assets on a guy who fulfills the role they need to fill better and/or cheaper than Byfuglien (he's a little pricey for a 3rd line winger).

 

[Sweech]

That really depends on the eye of the beholder. I think a lot of teams want certainty when they are mapping out how they will spend their cap dollars/budget. If they spend that money on a guy who might end up being unreliable on D, but hey we can stick him on the 3rd line, that could preclude them from spending that cap/budget space and assets on a guy who fulfills the role they need to fill better and/or cheaper than Byfuglien (he's a little pricey for a 3rd line winger).

Well good thing Byfuglien is one of the 5 best offensive producers on the blueline so even if you deem him poor defensively (which I actually don't believe he is) his value is that of one of the leagues best offensive defensemen.

You can essentially lock him in at that spot and get that value from it which is incredibly good.

Also remember us as a team have moved up Byfuglien because of a plethora of right handed defensemen and a lack of RW's. It would be a possibly different situation if we were lacking for right-handed D, but we're not at all.

Byfuglien wasn't moved because of defensive weakness. He was moved because of team depth.

 

[Flair Hay]

Agree to disagree Sweech. I don't think Buff is very good defensively at all. His puck skills are so damn good that combined with his size he creates more opportunities than he gives the other team. But his d zone play some nights is still an obviously exploitable weakness. I'm not convinced teams will give up what our fans think we SHOULD get back for a guy of his production.

 

[KingBogo]

Well good thing Byfuglien is one of the 5 best offensive producers on the blueline so even if you deem him poor defensively (which I actually don't believe he is) his value is that of one of the leagues best offensive defensemen.

You can essentially lock him in at that spot and get that value from it which is incredibly good.

Also remember us as a team have moved up Byfuglien because of a plethora of right handed defensemen and a lack of RW's. It would be a possibly different situation if we were lacking for right-handed D, but we're not at all.

Byfuglien wasn't moved because of defensive weakness. He was moved because of team depth.

If Buff was actually a top 5 defenseman offensively (which I believe he is) AND strong defensively (which I don't believe he is) you wouldn't move him to forward no matter how how deep you were on RD. Offensively skilled defenseman who are strong defensively are worth their weight in gold and you could dictate your trade terms. The guys that truly fit this category have names like Weber, Keith, Doughty and Pietrangelo.

 

[Huffer]

If Buff was actually a top 5 defenseman offensively (which I believe he is) AND strong defensively (which I don't believe he is) you wouldn't move him to forward no matter how how deep you were on RD. Offensively skilled defenseman who are strong defensively are worth their weight in gold and you could dictate your trade terms. The guys that truly fit this category have names like Weber, Keith, Doughty and Pietrangelo.

So what where the Jets supposed to do? Spread out the minutes between Buff, Bogo, and Trouba? Or give more to Buff and Bogo and pretty much underutilize Trouba? And all while watching absolutely nothing happening with the 3rd and 4th lines?

 

[KingBogo]

So what where the Jets supposed to do? Spread out the minutes between Buff, Bogo, and Trouba? Or give more to Buff and Bogo and pretty much underutilize Trouba? And all while watching absolutely nothing happening with the 3rd and 4th lines?

I don't disagree at all with the move of Buff to forward, but IMO it works because Buff's defensive liabilities disappear as a forward playing 5-5 and you can utilize his offensive strengths 4-4 and PP. Again IMO if Buff was a true #1 D in both ends of the ice as the players I mentioned in my first post, no one displaces him from the top pairing no matter the impact on other players. The coach just has to find other ways to get them their ice time.

 

[Huffer]

I don't disagree at all with the move of Buff to forward, but IMO it works because Buff's defensive liabilities disappear as a forward playing 5-5 and you can utilize his offensive strengths 4-4 and PP. Again IMO if Buff was a true #1 D in both ends of the ice as the players I mentioned in my first post, no one displaces him from the top pairing no matter the impact on other players. The coach just has to find other ways to get them their ice time.

Agree to disagree then.

The Jets forward depth is bad. It's about Noël, and then PoMo looking at a whiteboard and trying to figure out how to create the best lineup he can to win a game. If our bottom six didn't have guys like Wright, O'Dell, Tangradi, Peluso, and some under performing guys in Seto and Olli, then maybe the coach has the luxury of playing Buff, Bogo, and Trouba on RD. The Jets however were one injury from playing Thorburn on the second line.

Playing Buff at forward at this time, gives the coach the ability to have his better players out more often. It's really that simple IMO.

 

[Flair Hay]

I like using him the way we are now too. We give him the offensive situations on D. He gives a team with poor scoring depth an occasional one man threat. His finish, power, goalie rattling and physical presence is a pretty tough skill set to find.

If heaven forbid we make the playoffs...Buff would be worth his weight in gold.

 

[Bob E]

Will be an interesting trade deadline for Jets.

Kane trade rumours continue to surface. Buff rumours won't go away. Will they sell off pending UFAs Olli, Seto and Stu?

Not sure about others, but having a team back, checking twitter (and hfboards) frequently to see what the "insiders" have heard. Absolutely love it.

 

[Bob E]

Agree to disagree then.

The Jets forward depth is bad. It's about Noël, and then PoMo looking at a whiteboard and trying to figure out how to create the best lineup he can to win a game. If our bottom six didn't have guys like Wright, O'Dell, Tangradi, Peluso, and some under performing guys in Seto and Olli, then maybe the coach has the luxury of playing Buff, Bogo, and Trouba on RD. The Jets however were one injury from playing Thorburn on the second line.

Playing Buff at forward at this time, gives the coach the ability to have his better players out more often. It's really that simple IMO.

How long does 18 minute/game Buff keep his cool and not sulk that he's not getting 25+ mins? I'm thinking this RW 'experiment' is not going to be an ongoing situation. Trouba's emergence has made Buff expendable. I would be shocked if Buff is a Jet next fall. Completely shocked.

 

[Huffer]

How long does 18 minute/game Buff keep his cool and not sulk that he's not getting 25+ mins? I'm thinking this RW 'experiment' is not going to be an ongoing situation. Trouba's emergence has made Buff expendable. I would be shocked if Buff is a Jet next fall. Completely shocked.

Who knows. I haven't seen any proof yet that Buff is sulking yet though. Trying to read into 1 second pauses during an interview doesn't cut it for me. The team is also winning.

He could be moved though. And then we'll all probably wish he was back if Bogo or Trouba get injured.

 

[Bob E]

Who knows. I haven't seen any proof yet that Buff is sulking yet though. Trying to read into 1 second pauses during an interview doesn't cut it for me. The team is also winning.

He could be moved though. And then we'll all probably wish he was back if Bogo or Trouba get injured.

Ain't that the truth.

 

[JetsFan815]

So what where the Jets supposed to do? Spread out the minutes between Buff, Bogo, and Trouba? Or give more to Buff and Bogo and pretty much underutilize Trouba? And all while watching absolutely nothing happening with the 3rd and 4th lines?

It's very easy to distribute icetime between all 3 RD without causing anyone's minutes to go down that much. Play Buff with Pardy, give him top line PP/4on4 time and play him with Trouba in specialized circumstances (team behind a goal with 5 minutes to go). Bogo has been getting like 26 minutes off ice time a game recently and he could stand to see 4-5 minutes cut off his ice time without it being huge cut (infact it's better that Bogo play 20-22 mins a game given his injury history).

Heck I'd even rather have them play one of the RD on left side. Buff playing LD is better than Buff playing RW on the Jokinen line. LD/RD situation has been overblown on these boards too much. If we have an excess of RD and can't trade away any of the RD then one of RD is just gonna have to learn to play LD , that's much better than moving a D-man to forward if the excuse is that "there is a log-jam at RD". Detroit has as bad if not worse of a log-jam on RD than us and they have RD playing LD all the time. The rookie Seth Jones is playing LD and not missing a beat despite being a natural RD.

3rd line is not doing much with Buff on it anyways. One thing that gets underrated about Buff is his vision; at his core he is a playmaker who possesses elite vision. When he plays D, he can see the entire ice and play developing in front of him which he uses to make decisions that result in offensive oppertunities. When he plays at the wing he is too caught up in the minutia of playing the position to create the plays that he so often does from D. Which is why I am pretty sure that even if you put Buff with Ladd and Little you're not gonna see much of a difference

 

[BigZ65]

So what where the Jets supposed to do? Spread out the minutes between Buff, Bogo, and Trouba? Or give more to Buff and Bogo and pretty much underutilize Trouba? And all while watching absolutely nothing happening with the 3rd and 4th lines?

Give Bogosian and Trouba more run 5 on 5 and on the PK, fewer 5 on 5 shifts for Byfuglien, keep him as your #1 PP guy (there's 1:30 a pop right there) and first choice for 4 on 4, upgrade the 3rd pairing, utilize Byfuglien more effectively. IMO our 3rd D pairing has been just as bad as our bottom 2 lines if not worse, and Byfuglien on the whole of his time at forward has not really changed our 3rd line for the better. He's had good moments for sure.

He'd be playing 18-20 minutes a night depending on the # of PP's, which is about where he's at with 3rd line RW and PP, plus on D there'd be less skating so you'd think you'd get better minutes out of him, plus he prefers D if that has any effect on his play.

 

[Sweech]

Will be an interesting trade deadline for Jets.

Kane trade rumours continue to surface. Buff rumours won't go away. Will they sell off pending UFAs Olli, Seto and Stu?

Not sure about others, but having a team back, checking twitter (and hfboards) frequently to see what the "insiders" have heard. Absolutely love it.

I really haven't heard any Kane rumours.

Only ever the old ones and then the constant stream of people wanting him on the trade board.