Speculation: Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (Part XVIII)

[Holden Caulfield]

I think a lot of us are guilty of being condescending here and there. I'm not sure how much Stu criticism is stats based and how much isn't. Nothing wrong with you wanting a better puck mover in his place though.

I like what Stuart brings as a bottom pair guy because I like the defensemen that are tough to play against and take care of their own end. Trouble with our team is he isn't played as a bottom pairing guy lol

It all depends on what type of preference one has on how to build a team.

Therein lies the problem. Stuart does NOT take care of his own end. He is mistakenly labeled as a "defensive defenseman" since he bad offensively. He is a physical defenseman. Big difference. He is poor positionally and makes a very poor first pass. That is the most important things for a defensive defenseman.

The question is not Stuart or a puckmover. It's Stuart or a more competent defensive player. We have enough offensive guys and puckmovers (with two more not playing right now in Postma and Redmond). We need to get a true defensive guy, not solely a physical guy.

 

[Atoyot]

so I don't like Stuart as a player because of stats and groupthink and not because after watching the NHL hockey for over 3 decades I don't understand fundamentals like gap control, positioning, 4 way agility, puck movement, or the ability to read simple plays in advance

could you be any more ****ing condescending?

What? Could you be any more sensitive? Turbofan said what a lot of people have said about Buff, that he has a certain reputation and it's possible that people are looking for things that uphold their beliefs and tend to ignore those that disprove them. It's called confirmation bias and we all do it. Also it doesn't matter how long you've watched hockey, it doesn't give your opinion any more value than anybody else's. Similarly there are people who have watched hockey longer than you have that will have the opinion that Stuart is a good hockey player, does their opinion hold more value than yours? I doubt that you would say that they do.

Also if you want to see condescension how about you go look at your own response to Ladyjet in yesterday's PGT?

 

[Flair Hay]

Therein lies the problem. Stuart does NOT take care of his own end. He is mistakenly labeled as a "defensive defenseman" since he bad offensively. He is a physical defenseman. Big difference. He is poor positionally and makes a very poor first pass. That is the most important things for a defensive defenseman.

The question is not Stuart or a puckmover. It's Stuart or a more competent defensive player. We have enough offensive guys and puckmovers (with two more not playing right now in Postma and Redmond). We need to get a true defensive guy, not solely a physical guy.

Legit reply Holden. An excellent defensive player definitely isn't it. I still think he's a good enough option for most teams' bottom pair. Calling him a physical defenseman vs defensive is a better phrase for sure.

A true second pairing defensive defenseman would make a world of difference for us.

 

[Jet]

I am glad some of you guys are not our GM. Low round draft isn't even close, and it just seems the Stu haters (in our own forum) that are Jets fans are the only ones that believe that he has no value. Other teams posters offer more and even Trouba came out and said how valuable Stu is to his development. Personally if Chevy doesn't try to resign him I would be very disappointed.

Be prepared to be very disappointed. Look at the makeup of our D organizationally. Resigning Stuart makes no sense. We need to start working younger players into the mi x who are ready to be full time NHL'ers.

Redmond, though green, will easily usurp Stuart's usefulness with a little experience and that is just one guy.

 

[Jet]

so I don't like Stuart as a player because of stats and groupthink and not because after watching the NHL hockey for over 3 decades I don't understand fundamentals like gap control, positioning, 4 way agility, puck movement, or the ability to read simple plays in advance

could you be any more ****ing condescending?

I am growing very tired of this thought process as well. You can't dislike a player on the Jets it seems without being some sheep following group think.

I have watched and played hockey since I was little and I have mainly been a defenseman. The things I see that I do not like about Stuart are real, and troublesome.

I will however say he has been better lately. I'd bet that has something to do with playing with JT though. I think Stu is a fine bottom pair/ bench guy. Problem is, the guy you pair him with on that bottom pair better be solid, and mobile. Stuart cannot carry a pair at all.

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

What? Could you be any more sensitive? Turbofan said what a lot of people have said about Buff, that he has a certain reputation and it's possible that people are looking for things that uphold their beliefs and tend to ignore those that disprove them. It's called confirmation bias and we all do it. Also it doesn't matter how long you've watched hockey, it doesn't give your opinion any more value than anybody else's. Similarly there are people who have watched hockey longer than you have that will have the opinion that Stuart is a good hockey player, does their opinion hold more value than yours? I doubt that you would say that they do.

Also if you want to see condescension how about you go look at your own response to Ladyjet in yesterday's PGT?

All I can say is we see Turbo's post in a completely different light then.

and you are correct about my response to ladyjet. It was pretty immature/snide on my part, but there's a history there and not one started by me.

 

[Aavco Cup]

@DarrinBauming: The #NHLJets have a scout at tonight's #Avalanche #DallasStars game. via/ @adater

 

[StronGeer]

Unlikely trade partners given that they're both in our division...

 

[Sweech]

Likely just a good opportunity for opposition scouting.

 

[Aavco Cup]

We don't play Colorado til March 10th. Dallas on March 16th. Pretty advance scouting?

 

[Positive]

What? Could you be any more sensitive? Turbofan said what a lot of people have said about Buff, that he has a certain reputation and it's possible that people are looking for things that uphold their beliefs and tend to ignore those that disprove them. It's called confirmation bias and we all do it. Also it doesn't matter how long you've watched hockey, it doesn't give your opinion any more value than anybody else's. Similarly there are people who have watched hockey longer than you have that will have the opinion that Stuart is a good hockey player, does their opinion hold more value than yours? I doubt that you would say that they do.

Also if you want to see condescension how about you go look at your own response to Ladyjet in yesterday's PGT?

Yup Buff has his own sort of negative narrative around him, though it came about in a different way. Though it kind of comes and goes with him...Stuart's is more persistent. We have some positive narratives built around some players, too. Scheifele could probably throw the puck into his own net and I'd blame it on Pavs for letting in a softie...

There are probably many out there who have watched, played, coached, managed, scouted and analyzed hockey (some on professional levels) for decades, who think that Stuart is a good hockey player. And of course, many who might think he isn't. I'm not really a Stuart fan; nor was I targeting anyone specific with my post. it's perfectly good to comment on why you don't like Stuart, and what he did wrong here and then, etc. Just wouldn't hurt to acknowledge the occasional good play/game as well. Not gonna kill ya.

 

[Sweech]

Yup Buff has his own sort of negative narrative around him, though it came about in a different way. Though it kind of comes and goes with him...Stuart's is more persistent. We have some positive narratives built around some players, too. Scheifele could probably throw the puck into his own net and I'd blame it on Pavs for letting in a softie...

There are probably many out there who have watched, played, coached, managed, scouted and analyzed hockey (some on professional levels) for decades, who think that Stuart is a good hockey player. And of course, many who might think he isn't. I'm not really a Stuart fan; nor was I targeting anyone specific with my post. it's perfectly good to comment on why you don't like Stuart, and what he did wrong here and then, etc. Just wouldn't hurt to acknowledge the occasional good play/game as well. Not gonna kill ya.

I acknowledge the good plays he and Pavelec make in the GDT's.

Doesn't change the fact that I think we would benefit from having them not on this team. Moreso Pavelec as Stuart isn't the worst as a #6 d-man.

 

[Gm0ney]

@DarrinBauming: The #NHLJets have a scout at tonight's #Avalanche #DallasStars game. via/ @adater

O'Reilly? Gonchar and Whitney have been mentioned recently, but I doubt the Jets have any interest in them at all. Fiddler asked for a trade a while back, too.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=441408

 

[Sweech]

I'd absolutely love, love, love it if Stastny came here, but I highly doubt that ever happens.

 

[untouchable21]

So if Stuart or maybe even Pardy get moved, would the JETS be looking to replace from outside? I mean Redmond is here, but is he capable of playing the left side?

If they do look outside the organization, how about someone like Aulie in Tampa Bay. He's only 24 and seems like the kind of project that Chevy likes to take on.

Would Mark Fraser from Toronto be a worthy reclamation project. He's got size and is probably more mobile than Stuart. Not sure of his limited puck skills though. He might benefit from working with Charlie Huddy.

Just throwing some things out there.

 

[allan5oh]

We don't play Colorado til March 10th. Dallas on March 16th. Pretty advance scouting?

Agreed, teams don't scout that far in advance. It is for trade purposes, but that doesn't mean anything.

 

[Boreal]

So if Stuart or maybe even Pardy get moved, would the JETS be looking to replace from outside? I mean Redmond is here, but is he capable of playing the left side?

If they do look outside the organization, how about someone like Aulie in Tampa Bay. He's only 24 and seems like the kind of project that Chevy likes to take on.

Would Mark Fraser from Toronto be a worthy reclamation project. He's got size and is probably more mobile than Stuart. Not sure of his limited puck skills though. He might benefit from working with Charlie Huddy.

Just throwing some things out there.

I really do not think much of Mark Fraser as a hockey player. Aulie is interesting enough I suppose, but we already have Ellerby, and I think Ellerby is a more interesting project then Aulie to be honest. Ellerby at least appears willing to play physical. From what I have seen of Aulie (and granted it is not a whole lot) I would not call him a physical player. He's tall and rangy. Beyond that... Maybe somebody who is a closet Bolts supporter can chime in with a scouting report on Aulie.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I really do not think much of Mark Fraser as a hockey player. Aulie is interesting enough I suppose, but we already have Ellerby, and I think Ellerby is a more interesting project then Aulie to be honest. Ellerby at least appears willing to play physical. From what I have seen of Aulie (and granted it is not a whole lot) I would not call him a physical player. He's tall and rangy. Beyond that... Maybe somebody who is a closet Bolts supporter can chime in with a scouting report on Aulie.

Aw, we'd give Fraser to you for cheap. It wouldn't cost more than a conditional 5th, and even then we would be quite lucky to get that. Maybe if you gave us a defensive right handed defenseman of slightly greater value and we'd throw you Holzer in there too.

 

[Sweech]

Fraser is almost completely useless and I don't really see that Aulie could bring more than someone like Melchiori. No interest in either of them.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Agreed, teams don't scout that far in advance. It is for trade purposes, but that doesn't mean anything.

They might be scouting UFAs. At the beginning of the year, they likely establish a list of pending UFAs that they might have an interest in and then they try to get a decent amount of looks at during the year. I'm not sure if it makes sense to do this while advance scouting or to dedicate effort to it.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Lots of chatter about Ladd being available and that he might get a King's ransom come trade deadline

Teams like Pittsburgh,San Jose,Chicago,LA and Anaheim all very interested.

What would be a King's Ransom to get any of you to move him

Solid roster player + top Prospect + 1st round pick?

 

[Grind]

Lots of chatter about Ladd being available and that he might get a King's ransom come trade deadline

Teams like Pittsburgh,San Jose,Chicago,LA and Anaheim all very interested.

What would be a King's Ransom to get any of you to move him

Solid roster player + top Prospect + 1st round pick?

Yup. Bobby Ryan trade comparable.

 

[veganhunter]

Lots of chatter about Ladd being available and that he might get a King's ransom come trade deadline

Teams like Pittsburgh,San Jose,Chicago,LA and Anaheim all very interested.

What would be a King's Ransom to get any of you to move him

Solid roster player + top Prospect + 1st round pick?

Silfverberg type young player + very good-top prospect + 2015 first.

 

[Sweech]

Yup. Bobby Ryan trade comparable.

Maybe even better considering better intangibles.

Pretty much a king's ransom like Joe said.

 

[Huffer]

Lots of chatter about Ladd being available and that he might get a King's ransom come trade deadline

Teams like Pittsburgh,San Jose,Chicago,LA and Anaheim all very interested.

What would be a King's Ransom to get any of you to move him

Solid roster player + top Prospect + 1st round pick?

More than Clendening, McNeil, and a late Hawks 1st that's for sure.

But I'm just not all that high on McNeil. Plus, there is a massive difference in the value in that package compared to what the Ducks got for Ryan.