Speculation: Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (Part XVIII)

[Holden Caulfield]

I would have to think we would do no worse than we did for Oduya so a 2nd and a 3rd?

I actually liked Oduya a little more than I like Stuart (pizzas not withstanding). But I think there's more interest out there in Stuart than there was for Oduya as well. Plus last night's game won't hurt Stuart's appearances and he wasn't awful against Toronto on the national stage either.

So what if we got a 2014 2nd and a 2015 2nd? A little better return?

There's no chance we could get one 2nd for Stuart nevermind 2. Oduya is/was always the far superior player, as evidenced by him playing top 4 minutes on one of the top teams in the NHL.

A 3rd would be a fine return for Stuart. A 4th/5th is more likely.

 

[truck]

I would have to think we would do no worse than we did for Oduya so a 2nd and a 3rd?

I actually liked Oduya a little more than I like Stuart (pizzas not withstanding). But I think there's more interest out there in Stuart than there was for Oduya as well. Plus last night's game won't hurt Stuart's appearances and he wasn't awful against Toronto on the national stage either.

So what if we got a 2014 2nd and a 2015 2nd? A little better return?

Not sure I buy that there would be more demand for Stu than Johnny O.

Johnny O is a better player and Chi obviously viewed him as more rental.

 

[buggs]

Fair enough. I have no problem admitting I'm just throwing stuff at a wall to see what sticks.

I'll revise to suggest that there seems to be a lot of interest in Stuart at the moment, at least if you can use the boards here as a gauge. I don't quite get the interest myself but it seems a number of fanbases are inquiring about him.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Trying to find some comparables for Stu.

Robyn Regehr, D 2014 2nd-round pick + 2015 2nd-round pick
Jordan Leopold, D 2013 2nd-round pick + 2013 5th-round pick
Douglas Murray, D 2013 2nd-round pick + 2014 2nd-round pick

Does he fall in there somewhere?

 

[Sweech]

Well Stuart is actually better than Douglas Murray, so maybe we have something here.

 

[King Woodballs]

It's what the market will bare.

If someone really wants Stuart that bad that they want to give up 1st, that is what he is worth.

Is that possible? Not a hope in hell.
But, everything fluctuates from year too year.

All it takes is one desperate GM to blow the whole market up.

 

[truck]

Well Stuart is actually better than Douglas Murray, so maybe we have something here.

He is perhaps marginally better than Murray, but Murray had more pedigree.

 

[Sweech]

He is perhaps marginally better than Murray, but Murray had more pedigree.

Murray is honestly awful.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

He is perhaps marginally better than Murray, but Murray had more pedigree.

Does he have more pedigree? Stuart is a former 1st round pick. He is what he is and has been fairly consistent numbers wise. He maybe isn't as big as Murray but he probably is the quicker player. I don't know I think Stu has more to offer now then Murray or even back then he had more to offer

Either way the Sharks stole 2 2nd rounds from Pittsburgh

 

[truck]

Does he have more pedigree? Stuart is a former 1st round pick. He is what he is and has been fairly consistent numbers wise. He maybe isn't as big as Murray but he probably is the quicker player. I don't know I think Stu has more to offer now then Murray or even back then he had more to offer

Either way the Sharks stole 2 2nd rounds from Pittsburgh

Maybe pedigree wasn't the right word. I just meant in terms of playoff experience and people thinking DM was good. Lots of people used to think DM was good.

DM was a regular on a perennial contender. MS was a giveaway that struggled to crack a tough lineup and has more recently been a meh 3rd pairing D man on a poor defensive team.

 

[Flair Hay]

With the ability/experience Stuart has on the PK, he should have value to several teams looking for depth.

He's gotten better as the season went on. Definitely not as useless as he's been made out to be at times.

 

[tucker22*]

I am glad some of you guys are not our GM. Low round draft isn't even close, and it just seems the Stu haters (in our own forum) that are Jets fans are the only ones that believe that he has no value. Other teams posters offer more and even Trouba came out and said how valuable Stu is to his development. Personally if Chevy doesn't try to resign him I would be very disappointed.

 

[Channelcat]

With the ability/experience Stuart has on the PK, he should have value to several teams looking for depth.

He's gotten better as the season went on. Definitely not as useless as he's been made out to be at times.

As one of the few Stu fans I would agree with you. If the return is a 3rd rounder I would be much more inclined to keep him and perhaps resign him. We aren't exactly stacked with defensive defensemen or LHD. Currently he makes 1.7 which is an absolute steal for a 20-25 minute D (yes, I know he SHOULDNT be a 20-25 d)

If I were Chevy I would more eager to shop my expendable forwards. Seto, Tangradi, Wright, Peluso, Thorburn etc even if the returns are minimal. If a playoff spot is even a remote possibility I don't like the idea of moving character guys like Stuart and Jokinen regardless of UFA status.

 

[jetkarma*]

Love the run we are on and the change , it is noticeable. We are a fast big team , we know play that way .

Don't like the thought that we don't add to the 1 , 3, 4, 4 picks we have. I would really like to have 1, 2,2, 3,3, 4,4 going into the draft and maneuver from there like we did last draft.

Jokinen , Seto , Stuart, Thorburn, Pardy hopefully we do still move a couple of them to add to our asset base.

 

[Sweech]

With the ability/experience Stuart has on the PK, he should have value to several teams looking for depth.

He's gotten better as the season went on. Definitely not as useless as he's been made out to be at times.

To his credit he also has the intangibles that teams overpay for.

Also if there's an "oldschool" GM out there who loves the shotblocking, and hitting, and standing up for your teammates (basically anyone like Don Cherry) I could actually see getting a 1st out of it. I know it sounds completely ridiculous, but sadly in this NHL I know it's actually possible.

 

[Boreal]

If Pau Gaustad can return a first, I am convinced that my home office stapler is worth at least a 5th. Point being, Stuart for a 4th or 5th is horrid return.

 

[Positive]

With the ability/experience Stuart has on the PK, he should have value to several teams looking for depth.

He's gotten better as the season went on. Definitely not as useless as he's been made out to be at times.

Unfortunately the community has built a powerful negative narrative around Stuart, and he'll never be viewed in a positive light here.

Some postings of unflattering advanced statistics gained traction. Combine that with a community desire to see the Jets' newer, younger defensemen succeed, and a desire for a general 'changing of the guard', results in Stuart now being a guy that posters love to hate.

It's rare that we don't see a PGT or GDT thread where he isn't belittled at least once. Not to say that he doesn't make mistakes, but the community is more quick to point out a given error by him, than if it was committed by someone else. And it's rare for people to compliment him on a good play, or a good entire game, on the occasion he has one. I feel a lot of these moments are dismissed because they go against the narrative.

 

[Channelcat]

Unfortunately the community has built a powerful negative narrative around Stuart, and he'll never be viewed in a positive light here.

Some postings of unflattering advanced statistics gained traction. Combine that with a community desire to see the Jets' newer, younger defensemen succeed, and a desire for a general 'changing of the guard', results in Stuart now being a guy that posters love to hate.

It's rare that we don't see a PGT or GDT thread where he isn't belittled at least once. Not to say that he doesn't make mistakes, but the community is more quick to point out a given error by him, than if it was committed by someone else. And it's rare for people to compliment him on a good play, or a good entire game, on the occasion he has one. I feel a lot of these moments are dismissed because they go against the narrative.

Wheeler went from the most maligned to the most loved in about 2 weeks. I see the tide turning for Stuart as well.......not that it really matters anyway. Sports talk is little more than static after all.

 

[Flair Hay]

Unfortunately the community has built a powerful negative narrative around Stuart, and he'll never be viewed in a positive light here.

Some postings of unflattering advanced statistics gained traction. Combine that with a community desire to see the Jets' newer, younger defensemen succeed, and a desire for a general 'changing of the guard', results in Stuart now being a guy that posters love to hate.

It's rare that we don't see a PGT or GDT thread where he isn't belittled at least once. Not to say that he doesn't make mistakes, but the community is more quick to point out a given error by him, than if it was committed by someone else. And it's rare for people to compliment him on a good play, or a good entire game, on the occasion he has one. I feel a lot of these moments are dismissed because they go against the narrative.

I'm not huge into GTDs but I agree with your point. I was very unimpressed with Stuart after learning his advanced stats in the summer whilst having Jets fever.

A funny thing happened though. I've watched pretty well all the games, and more and more I see why he's kept around. His puck handling is certainly low end but he seems to avoid the epic fail. He blocks shots better than anyone we have, actually tries to intimidate opposition forwards that come flying across our blue line, and is an okay penalty killer to name a few. The more I watch his game the less I care what the stats say about him. He's an NHL defenseman, and I'd way rather have him as our third pairing guy than a offense-first guy like Postma who thinks slower than everyone else in our own zone. It's no surprise other teams' fans have noticed.

He's a bit better than Pardy, but for the difference in pay and trade value I understand trading him.

 

[buggs]

I'm not huge into GTDs but I agree with your point. I was very unimpressed with Stuart after learning his advanced stats in the summer whilst having Jets fever.

A funny thing happened though. I've watched pretty well all the games, and more and more I see why he's kept around. His puck handling is certainly low end but he seems to avoid the epic fail. He blocks shots better than anyone we have, actually tries to intimidate opposition forwards that come flying across our blue line, and is an okay penalty killer to name a few. The more I watch his game the less I care what the stats say about him. He's an NHL defenseman, and I'd way rather have him as our third pairing guy than a offense-first guy like Postma who thinks slower than everyone else in our own zone. It's no surprise other teams' fans have noticed.

He's a bit better than Pardy, but for the difference in pay and trade value I understand trading him.

And that is the big part of why I keep mentioning moving him. There's interest from around the league, at least based on fans here, in getting him. He does bring something to the game of value, albeit not flashy.

FWIW I'd like to move Postma too, but his unfortunate blood clot issues combined with Redmond's unfortunate accident last year have left us going from a plethora of third pairing guys to a bunch of guys with some doubts.

And a part of the equation if Stuart is moved is to find a replacement for him because our left side is pretty damn thin. Will Clitsome come back from a back injury at all? And if he does, wouldn't we be better off with him on the third pairing.

We've got lots of bodies but some dubious health issues along our blue line. If everyone gets healthy, then we have some bodies we can move along at some point. But if we're not going to move Stuart prior to the deadline then I honestly wish we'd re-sign him to shore up the left side. And I wish we'd due it via a contract extension prior to that point, rather than losing him to free agency.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Its not about liking or disliking a player. It is about asset management.

Stuart is an UFA in the Summer. He is still "young". He will get a good deal from some team and that team might even be us.

The problem is if we are say 10 points back at the deadline and we haven't decided to sign him or he hasn't decided to sign here then the best use of him is for asset management.

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

so I don't like Stuart as a player because of stats and groupthink and not because after watching the NHL hockey for over 3 decades I don't understand fundamentals like gap control, positioning, 4 way agility, puck movement, or the ability to read simple plays in advance

could you be any more ****ing condescending?

 

[PaperRockChamp]

Stuart is a warrior who has been getting a lot of praise lately. I love him as a 5/6, much the same as Slater as 4th C.

^Good post, Joe

 

[Grind]

As one of the few Stu fans I would agree with you. If the return is a 3rd rounder I would be much more inclined to keep him and perhaps resign him. We aren't exactly stacked with defensive defensemen or LHD. Currently he makes 1.7 which is an absolute steal for a 20-25 minute D (yes, I know he SHOULDNT be a 20-25 d)

If I were Chevy I would more eager to shop my expendable forwards. Seto, Tangradi, Wright, Peluso, Thorburn etc even if the returns are minimal. If a playoff spot is even a remote possibility I don't like the idea of moving character guys like Stuart and Jokinen regardless of UFA status.

This is understandable, but the playoffs aren't a remote possibility. They are whatever is less then that but not quite impossible.

We aren't in control of our playoff hopes. Even if we somehow manage to keep winning 4/5 games, that doesn't secure us a spot. That's saying something.

I just don't think it's healthy to look at what we're doing and think it's close to sustainable, which is a requirement for us to have even a "remote" possibility at playing into spring. Realistically this teams dead for this season. A great run and visible turn around (like we're seeing) is great to watch and sets the stage for next year, but I don't want it to fool our management into making the wrong decisions.

edit: also it's important to remember part of chevies reasoning for bringing in PM was "sometimes you get enamored with what you have. We wanted to bring in a new coach to get a new set of eyes on the team. to get an outside perspective on these players so we can better position ourselves going into the deadline"

Despite the miracle run, Chevy pretty much said PoMo was being brought in to help facilitate player movement.

 

[Flair Hay]

so I don't like Stuart as a player because of stats and groupthink and not because after watching the NHL hockey for over 3 decades I don't understand fundamentals like gap control, positioning, 4 way agility, puck movement, or the ability to read simple plays in advance

could you be any more ****ing condescending?

I think a lot of us are guilty of being condescending here and there. I'm not sure how much Stu criticism is stats based and how much isn't. Nothing wrong with you wanting a better puck mover in his place though.

I like what Stuart brings as a bottom pair guy because I like the defensemen that are tough to play against and take care of their own end. Trouble with our team is he isn't played as a bottom pairing guy lol

It all depends on what type of preference one has on how to build a team.