Speculation: Jets General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 15-16 Part XIII

[DeepFrickinValue]

Portage and Main is a bit much don't you think? I think it would be perfectly adequate to give him a seated statue right beside old Timothy Eaton in the foyer. Big old Chevy grin looking at Timothy? Yep, that's where it should go.

How about replace golden boy with Chevy?

 

[roccerfeller]

Just curious, how'd you come up with that conclusion? What did you notice? Hopefully we do pick PL!

Mostly gut feeling, as Chevy didn't say anything explicit

Of course I could be completely wrong, but he was pretty strong about keeping the #2 pick, and that nothing from any other team has prompted him to move that pick. That could include moving down to number 3. Plus when asked about who he would take if Toronto was not picking first overall, he essentially said anything can happen and every year there are picks who don't go as projected. In other words, it is not set in stone that Leafs will take Matthews....now of course that is most likely who they will pick, but until it is made official, it hasn't happened and to that end he is saying nothing has happened yet.

Now lets take this speculation mixed with gut feeling of mine one step further:

If you were the GM and you didn't care about getting either Laine or JP, you'd have nothing to lose by trying to get Columbus to trade up.

I think if you are that strong on keeping the #2 pick, it is because you want whomever doesn't go first overall.

Chevy was pretty straight up about the organizational needs too, including the need for a LHD. They know which areas they are weak in; Chevy hinted as much at the end of season presser with respect to PP and this being an area they would target for improvement and it seems Laine would be the strongest asset to the Jets PP woes, especially given all top 3 are pretty much NHL ready

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

100% agree. Only issue is who do we expose if we must protect Hartnell b/c of his NMC

If we have picked up Werenski then we trade Myers for certain and go 7 + 3. We get 3 additional F spots. Hartnell takes 1. We still have room for 2 more than we otherwise would have. Without going back to check I think that means Burmi is the best player we expose or maybe also 1 of Lowry/Armia. Protect Dano and 1 of Lowry/Armia who were otherwise going to be exposed.

I would expect Werenski to be ready this year but if he needs a year with the Moose we play Chiarot and Morrissey on the left side with Enstrom. It would mean we see Stu when we have injuries. Buff, Trouba and Postma on the right.

Hartnell's NMC is not that big an impediment. Other team's GMs can do the arithmetic. It might lower Myers' trade value a bit. Maybe.

 

[KingBogo]

If we have picked up Werenski then we trade Myers for certain and go 7 + 3. We get 3 additional F spots. Hartnell takes 1. We still have room for 2 more than we otherwise would have. Without going back to check I think that means Burmi is the best player we expose or maybe also 1 of Lowry/Armia. Protect Dano and 1 of Lowry/Armia who were otherwise going to be exposed.

I would expect Werenski to be ready this year but if he needs a year with the Moose we play Chiarot and Morrissey on the left side with Enstrom. It would mean we see Stu when we have injuries. Buff, Trouba and Postma on the right.

Hartnell's NMC is not that big an impediment. Other team's GMs can do the arithmetic. It might lower Myers' trade value a bit. Maybe.

Once you waive your NMC isn't it up to the team acquiring the player to make a determination if they will reinstate it? And who says Hartnell wouldn't want to finish off his career in the sunshine of Vegas.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He's a big negative IMO. And it only gets worse over time.

TBH why would we trade Laine unless the return is massive. This is not about making a fair deal.

Like I said AC, we have to disagree. I agree that Laine is clearly the best option for #2 but the margin over Pulju is not very big IMO. Getting Werenski would be huge. How can you call Hartnell a negative value? He scored 49 points last year. And a big negative no less. His HERO chart shows him above Ladd. He is going to regress but he is showing no signs of it yet. 3 years at 4.75 is good value unless he falls off the proverbial cliff pretty soon.

I've heard a lot of proposals to get Laine away from us. Most of them were garbage. This one is not. TBH I don't think CBJ does it. They won't want to give up Werenski.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Once you waive your NMC isn't it up to the team acquiring the player to make a determination if they will reinstate it? And who says Hartnell wouldn't want to finish off his career in the sunshine of Vegas.

I'm not sure of the answer to that question. It is not the same as the Myers situation. There the NMC is lost because the player was moved before it had come into effect. I think I have heard that the act of waiving the clause nullifies it but I can't say for certain.

Get 1 year of Hartnell and then expose him? Depends on how good he is in that 1 year and whether he would waive IF he still has an NMC. And of course he would have to waive it to come here in the first place.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Wish we could get Brodin from minny. But too many hurdles so it won't work, ie money on back end, expansion. But Mac says lots of interest in their D's.

Brodin is seriously overrated. He is not that good. Slightly better than Chiarot.

 

[Hunter368]

If we have picked up Werenski then we trade Myers for certain and go 7 + 3. We get 3 additional F spots. Hartnell takes 1. We still have room for 2 more than we otherwise would have. Without going back to check I think that means Burmi is the best player we expose or maybe also 1 of Lowry/Armia. Protect Dano and 1 of Lowry/Armia who were otherwise going to be exposed.

I would expect Werenski to be ready this year but if he needs a year with the Moose we play Chiarot and Morrissey on the left side with Enstrom. It would mean we see Stu when we have injuries. Buff, Trouba and Postma on the right.

Hartnell's NMC is not that big an impediment. Other team's GMs can do the arithmetic. It might lower Myers' trade value a bit. Maybe.

I would expect trading Myers before he proves he's fully recovered would reduce his value. But we could sure trade Myers part way through the year after he shows he's fully recovered (hopefully).

I would hate to trade Trouba and keep Myers, that would be a shame.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Once you waive your NMC isn't it up to the team acquiring the player to make a determination if they will reinstate it? And who says Hartnell wouldn't want to finish off his career in the sunshine of Vegas.

The clause remains intact. It needs to be waived every time a player who has a NMC/NTC is traded. There is no provision in the CBA for a team to cancel it.

This is different than it is for players like Myers who were traded before their NMC/NTC came into efffect. The CBA has language that says the acquiring team is not bound by the clause in that case.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Like I said AC, we have to disagree. I agree that Laine is clearly the best option for #2 but the margin over Pulju is not very big IMO. Getting Werenski would be huge. How can you call Hartnell a negative value? He scored 49 points last year. And a big negative no less. His HERO chart shows him above Ladd. He is going to regress but he is showing no signs of it yet. 3 years at 4.75 is good value unless he falls off the proverbial cliff pretty soon.

I've heard a lot of proposals to get Laine away from us. Most of them were garbage. This one is not. TBH I don't think CBJ does it. They won't want to give up Werenski.

There is a reason why these trades don't happen. The price to move up at the top of the draft is extremely high. It's the high rent district. Chevy would never do the deal as proposed. It's not enough. Columbus won't want to pay what it would take. It will never happen.

 

[truck]

Looking around the league...

NYI will have a hard time protecting players for expansion.

Leddy
Boychuck
T Ham
Hickey
De Haan

Odds are that they will lose one.

Nashville has:
Suter
Josi
Ekholm
Ellis

 

[Gabe Kupari]

I really don't think anybody could make the case that Puljujarvi plus Werenski doesn't help the jets more than Laine does. Laine is nice but if the jets could get a young LHD like Werenski plus Puljujarvi... you can't turn that down. Jets win the draft if they pull that off. I don't think it happens but if Columbus offered that to move to 2.... Jets take it easily

 

[Aavco Cup]

I really don't think anybody could make the case that Puljujarvi plus Werenski doesn't help the jets more than Laine does. Laine is nice but if the jets could get a young LHD like Werenski plus Puljujarvi... you can't turn that down. Jets win the draft if they pull that off. I don't think it happens but if Columbus offered that to move to 2.... Jets take it easily

Hey I'm OK with that. I said earlier. It's the other stuff in the deal I was against.

I just don't see why we should take cap dump Hartnell as well plus give them Roslovic which is the deal I'm against. We lose that big time in so many ways.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Hey I'm OK with that. I said earlier. It's the other stuff in the deal I was against.

I just don't see why we should take cap dump Hartnell as well plus give them Roslovic which is the deal I'm against. We lose that big time in so many ways.

Yup. Tend to agree. If Columbus wants Laine that bad... 3rd and Werenski is what I'd want or demand. If cbj passes oh well we just take Laine

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

There is a reason why these trades don't happen. The price to move up at the top of the draft is extremely high. It's the high rent district. Chevy would never do the deal as proposed. It's not enough. Columbus won't want to pay what it would take. It will never happen.

Of course it will never happen but not for your reasons. It will never happen because it is just a fantasy proposal on a fan forum.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Of course it will never happen but not for your reasons. It will never happen because it is just a fantasy proposal on a fan forum.

Why are you arguing in favour deal then?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Hey I'm OK with that. I said earlier. It's the other stuff in the deal I was against.

I just don't see why we should take cap dump Hartnell as well plus give them Roslovic which is the deal I'm against. We lose that big time in so many ways.

Hartnell is not a cap dump. He is a useful player. Roslovic is a small price to pay.

 

[Bob E]

Looking around the league...

NYI will have a hard time protecting players for expansion.

Leddy
Boychuck
T Ham
Hickey
De Haan

Odds are that they will lose one.

Nashville has:
Suter
Josi
Ekholm
Ellis

Thinking you meant Weber.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Hartnell is not a cap dump. He is a useful player. Roslovic is a small price to pay.

Disagree. We would be helping a cap strapped team and not receiving proper compensation for that help. Roslovic is unnecessary.

Hartnell (cap dump) was what Columbus was telling teams (trying to trade up to #3) had to be included in any trade. It's not gonna happen in a trade up to #2 scenario.

 

[Bob E]

No team will meet Jets demands for #2, if they even consider moving it. They should ask for a huge, HUGE overpay, or make pick. I think moving the pick isn't even in consideration at this point.

They'll pick at #2. They know who they want. Their mind is made up. I think it's Laine.

We'll see tomorrow.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Why are you arguing in favour deal then?

Do you think our discussions here actually affect the real world? I argue in favour of the deal because it would be good for us. I don't believe that if I win the argument the deal will happen.

Disagree. We would be helping a cap strapped team and not receiving proper compensation for that help. Roslovic is unnecessary.

The deal would help us. I don't give a damn what effect it has on CBJ. I'm not going to turn down a good deal because it might also help the other team. It would not happen, even in this fantasy world without that piece. With him we are getting an overpay. Without him we are getting a ridiculous overpay.

You still haven't explained why a good 2 way LW who scores at a top 6 rate is a negative value in the deal.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

But in the hypothetical world IF cbj calls Chevy and says ok.... 2 for 3 plus Werenski... Jets would trade it for sure. Columbus is probably the only realistic trade option for the Jets cuz they didn't win 2nd overall to move out of the top 3. I think a ridiculous overpay of Werenski plus 3 is what it would take. I don't see how assign hartnell makes any difference when it's Columbus wanting to trade up. They add Hartnell and they probably would have to add their 2nd round pick Also. Hartnell isn't awful but.... he's not exactly a piece the jets really need

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

No team will meet Jets demands for #2, if they even consider moving it. They should ask for a huge, HUGE overpay, or make pick. I think moving the pick isn't even in consideration at this point.

They'll pick at #2. They know who they want. Their mind is made up. I think it's Laine.

We'll see tomorrow.

I agree. But we have been discussing a hypothetical proposition's value.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Do you think our discussions here actually affect the real world? I argue in favour of the deal because it woul be good for us. I don't believe that if I win the argument the deal will happen.



The deal would help us. I don't give a damn what effect it has on CBJ. I'm not going to turn down a good deal because it might also help the other team. It would not happen, even in this fantasy world without that piece. With him we are getting an overpay. Without him we are getting a ridiculous overpay.

You still haven't explained why a good 2 way LW who scores at a top 6 rate is a negative value in the deal.

I have many times. He's a declining player. He has a full NMC. There's an expansion draft. He doesn't fit our team age profile.

IMO it hurts our team because we won't have Laine. To give up Laine the return has to be huge. How many times have I said that.

The return proposed is not huge enough.

# 2
for
#3 plus Werenski

Is intriguing

Hartnell - don't want him. If we have to take him the we need a return for the cap dump

Roslovic going the other way weakens the premium of Werenski. I'm not sure why we would want to weaken the premium needed to give up #2 pick

Even if we did the deal without Hartnell and Roslovic involved, Columbus probably wins the trade because Laine is very likely the best player. By a lot. Usually the team that gets the best player wins the trade.

With the other stuff added in we get hosed.

 

[Aavco Cup]

^PS I think we should try and be somewhat realistic here.